Nationwide/shoesmith claimform - credit card***Claim Discontinued***

[skywalker1010]

Hi,

Don't know if this is the right place to post, so apologies but we are in need of help defending against Shoosmiths. They have issued her on 16th Jul from Northampton Business Centre a Court Claim on behalf of Nationwide.

 

The debt was a couple of years old and I luckily came on this site where you gave suggestions to others to ask Shoosmiths for a CPR 31.14 request because we have no documentation on the debt.

 

------------------------------

I have issued a formal request made under CPR 31.14 for the

disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of

each of the following documents mentioned in the Particulars of

this Claim:

 

 

1. The original agreement and terms and conditions from that date.

You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the

provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a

written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents

constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with

the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available

at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated

in the contract should also be attached.

2. The default notice alleged to have been served upon me,

together with proof of service

3. Evidence of how the balance claimed has been arrived at

4. Notice of Assignment.

 

None of the above have been issued to me previously by Nationwide

Building Society or Shoosmiths LLP and if this claim is to move

forward the above have to be addressed.

 

I have given Nationwide Building Society and Shoosmiths LLP 7 days

to comply in writing with the above documentation.

------------------------------

 

This defence was recieved by the Court through Money Claim on the 19/7/2015, we then recieved a letter from Shoosmiths dated 24th July. In it they state that they have no provision to attach agreements to the claim, therefore this is not a requirement for the Claimant. They then state 'By virtue of the Civil Procedure Rules Practice Direction 7C at paragraph 1.4(3C)'

 

They state '(3C) The requirement....for documents to be attached to the particulars of Contract Claims does not apply to claims to be issued by the [County Court Bulk] Centre, unless the Particulars of Claim are served separately..."

 

I have looked onling https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part07/pd_part07c and cannot see this wording at all.

 

Shoosmiths end by saying 'In relation to your comments regarding disclosure, we would suggest your request for disclosure was premature. We refer you to CPR 27.2(1)(b)

 

They go on to say they have requested further documentation from Nationwide, which is yet to come. They say in the letter they provide an Income and Expenditure form and envelope, which there is no sign of.

 

I replied back to Shoosmiths telling them this and they have replied again, recieved yesterday. They give an I&E form but also say that they have written to the Court saying that the claimant wishes to proceed and can they move it to our local County Court.

 

I have tried to stop this again with a counter claim online, but cannot. Shall I send a defence letter to Northampton, do we only have till the

 

What can we do? are Shoosmiths correct in their dismissing the documents before we go to Court?

 

Any help or guidance would be really gratefully recieved.

 

Thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

From what i understand the claimant does not have to comply with CPR 31.14 until the court hearing. They can progress their claim, but must have the documents for the court hearing. Of course, if you have not had a chance to study the documents, you can ask for an adjournment.

 

Not an expert on this and others will be able to explain more. Up to recently, i thought they had to disclose documents in good time for a hearing to allow the defendant a fair chance. They obviously use it being a 'civil' procedure to leave it to be near the court hearing, before they provide the documents.

[dx100uk]

what is the a bank account OD?

 

 

can you fill this in so we have all the required info please

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-December-2014**

[skywalker1010]

Hi, Thanks for the advice.

 

unclebulgarian67 I have responded to Northampton via email and letter asking them to put on hold the claim whilst we get the documents.

 

dx100uk I am filling out the info you requested and will post up.

 

We obviously don't want to go to Court, ideally we want to settle a F&F if possible, would that be better with Shoosmiths or Nationwide directly?. The debt is just over £8K and with no contact from them for over 18 months and several agencies involved before Shoosmiths we were going to offer £3K in three monthly payments from a family friend?

 

Do you think this is viable?

 

Regards all

[unclebulgaria67]

Hi, Thanks for the advice.

 

unclebulgarian67 I have responded to Northampton via email and letter asking them to put on hold the claim whilst we get the documents.

 

dx100uk I am filling out the info you requested and will post up.

 

We obviously don't want to go to Court, ideally we want to settle a F&F if possible, would that be better with Shoosmiths or Nationwide directly?. The debt is just over £8K and with no contact from them for over 18 months and several agencies involved before Shoosmiths we were going to offer £3K in three monthly payments from a family friend?

 

Do you think this is viable?

 

Regards all

 

You need to follow the court rules for the claim. They allow 14 days (plus 5 days for court claim to be received by you) to acknowledge the claim and then a further 14 days to submit the defence. You can do this all online or post it to the court.

 

Northampton is a bulk administration centre that deals with huge volumes of claims made online. Not sure why you are sending them emails and letters. Northampton only deal with the initial stages of claim. The claimant does not have to provide any documents you request until later in the process, when the claim has been allocated to a court close to you. You would be sent an allocation form. If the claim is going ahead and where the local court is that you prefer to attend.

 

Your defence is based on issues you want to raise. The claimant will need to provide documentation at or before any court hearing that is requested. If you needed time to look at the documents, you would request an adjournment.

 

If you want to settle the claim, then contact Shoosmiths to negotiate this. They would have to put any offer to Nationwide on your behalf. No point contacting Nationwide directly.

[dx100uk]

who says their claim is VALID!!

 

 

please don't settler unless you lose the case

and even then by a tomlin or consent order

 

 

stop jumpimg the gun and panicking!!

 

 

calm down

you have time

do things properly

by the correct methods

that's is what the court is there for.

[dx100uk]

get that link done please

[skywalker1010]

Here is the form details, hope this helps.

 

Name of the Claimant Nationwide Building Society

 

Date of issue – 16th July

 

Date of issue 16th + 19 days ( 5 day for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = 3rd Aug + 14 days to submit defence = 16th Aug (33 days in total) -

 

What is the claim for – Claimant agreed to issue defendant with Credit Card, under agreement of Standard Credit Card Conditions. By Clause 15 claimant was entitled to close defendants account giving reasonable notice. If the account is closed Defendant must repay everything owed to claimant under the agreement. Claimant closed defendants account and demand was made to defendant on 5/12/2012 and balance remains owing by claimant. Claimant has complied as far as necessary with the pre-action conduct practice direction.

 

What is the value of the claim £8380 plus £410 costs

 

Is the claim for a current account (Overdraft) or credit/loan account or mobile phone account? Credit Card

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? after 2007

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Claim on behalf of Nationwide by Shoosmiths their solicitor

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? No

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Cannot remember

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? Cannot remember

 

Why did you cease payments? Could not afford payments

 

What was the date of your last payment? May 2012

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt managementicon plan? Communicated and wrote a letter to ombudsman about harassment

 

I am currently going through all old letters at the moment but it seems that we have had letters in past offering a F&F of £6500 or claimant is willing to accept monthly installments of £139 this was a letter in May 2013.

 

I need to get the other bits up, but I am working all hours in a new job ;-(

 

We don't want to go to Court, my wife is petrified, to the point that she will simply not go.

 

Any advice on the above would be gratefully recieved.

 

Thanks

Edited August 14, 2015 by Andyorch
Responses hilighted

[unclebulgaria67]

Has the claim been acknowledged per the correct procedure detailed on the form received ?

 

You could contact Shoosmiths to start negotiating a way to repay this debt. Before you do that, you could phone National Debtline and they will explain what you need to do. It is probably easier to phone for debt advice, because you can discuss your finances in a confidential way and not on an open internet forum.

[unclebulgaria67]

Suggest you obtain all statements of account to see what charges have been added and if these are excessive, you may be able to negotiate a reduction in the amount.

 

Because the credit card accont was taken out after April 2007, it will be more difficult to defend. They just have to evidence the debt, they have issued the default notice correctly and you failed to pay.

 

If you own any property it is important to come to a repayment arrangement you can afford to stick to. Otherwise there is a risk they will want to secure the debt against your house or look at bankruptcy.

[AndyOrch]

Ideally you should be submitting a defence today....as 16th is a Sunday and will not be processed until Monday 17th

[skywalker1010]

Ideally you should be submitting a defence today....as 16th is a Sunday and will not be processed until Monday 17th

 

Andy, we put in our original defence on the 19th, do we get another chance online as I could not see this?

 

Shoosmiths are still awaiting paperwork from claimant but they have sent us a copy of a letter to Northampton saying that they want the case transferred to our local Court. With it is an Income and Expenses form for us to fill out.

 

If this is transferred will we simply get a Court date for local, plus opportunity to defend again before we have to attend, my wife is scared to attend. Or will we get fastracked straight through to local Court hearing in the next day or so?

 

We are filling in the I&E form, she could afford £10-20 a month, we already have a Charge on my side ;-(

 

I noted that we were originally offered a settlement amount two years ago. Could we suggest that again.

 

I really cannot think straight at the moment

 

Thanks

[citizenB]

It would be automatically moved to your local court, so Shoosmiths aren't being kind to you at all

 

AO will look in on you later on to answer the rest of your questions..

 

There really is nothing to be scared of - this isn't a criminal offence and any hearing will likely be heard in the Judge's office.

[skywalker1010]

It would be automatically moved to your local court, so Shoosmiths aren't being kind to you at all

 

AO will look in on you later on to answer the rest of your questions..

 

There really is nothing to be scared of - this isn't a criminal offence and any hearing will likely be heard in the Judge's office.

 

citizenB, she simply is petrified. We have a whole mess of debt when my company went years ago, I was stuck with Business Overdraft and a personal guarantee, which I defended in Court, got set aside, but they eventually came back and got a charge on my side of the property.

 

I have since found full time employment and we are beginning to turn things around, she has gone into a big depression over this. Part of me thinks we should put in the I&E and try and get the £139 a month offer back on the table without going to Court. We have it in writing from Shoosmiths in 2013 they would do that without Court and I assume no interest added.

 

We can then keep up payments whilst my new position consolidates our income. She is working at our sons school earning £300 a month, but that may rise to £500.

 

What do you think?

 

I don't want to lay down and roll over for them, but this may be the best route, then 6 months to a year paying the monthly amount my position should have changed again, cannot say too much, but we could offer a F&F.

 

Regards

[citizenB]

There is no harm in asking them if they would be prepared to accept this as a way of avoiding a hearing. Andyorch could explain this better than I, so perhaps best to wait for him.

 

I think you would need a consent order / tomlin order drawn up - we are seeing this type of thing happen quite often to the satisfaction of both sides.

 

I have left a message for andyorch for you

[skywalker1010]

There is no harm in asking them if they would be prepared to accept this as a way of avoiding a hearing. Andyorch could explain this better than I, so perhaps best to wait for him.

 

I think you would need a consent order / tomlin order drawn up - we are seeing this type of thing happen quite often to the satisfaction of both sides.

 

I have left a message for andyorch for you

 

Thanks citizenB, no-one has come back yet tho.

 

One question, is it in my interest to fill in the Income & Expenditure form sent by Shoosmiths? do I have a legal requirement to do this. If there is already a charge on the property, would Shoosmiths look at this as negative for them to pursue a charge, would they more likely agree a monthly amount.

 

We 'may' be able to afford the £139 monthly amount they proposed by letter in 2013, I worked it out that that offer was over 5 years with no interest added. I am thinking to propose taking that offer. 'if it is still available' so we dont have to go to Court.

 

I have quite a bit of information up here now, hopefully someone can come on and give some more advice soon.

 

Regards

[unclebulgaria67]

You might have to complete some I&E info for Shoosmiths and Nationwide to consider some arrangement, to prevent the CCJ going forward. You then agree to it e.g Tomlin and they agree to withdraw the claim.

 

Andy is usually not around until later on a Sunday on CAG, so may reply later.

[AndyOrch]

Andy, we put in our original defence on the 19th, do we get another chance online as I could not see this? No ...please post your defence here

 

Shoosmiths are still awaiting paperwork from claimant but they have sent us a copy of a letter to Northampton saying that they want the case transferred to our local Court. With it is an Income and Expenses form for us to fill out. Ignore for now until you receive a Directions Questionnaire N180

 

If this is transferred will we simply get a Court date for local Yes but only if and when you receive and submit an N180, plus opportunity to defend again before we have to attend,You dont defend again...you have already submitted a defence ? my wife is scared to attend.No need to be the Dentists is far worse Or will we get fast tracked straight through to local Court hearing in the next day or so? No

 

We are filling in the I&E form,Dont just yet she could afford £10-20 a month, we already have a Charge on my side ;-( ???? what charge ?

 

I noted that we were originally offered a settlement amount two years ago. Could we suggest that again.

 

I really cannot think straight at the moment....need to calm down its quite simple and straight forward.....unless you panic and mess it up

 

Thanks

 

Regards

 

Andy

[skywalker1010]

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy,

 

Original defence was posted in my first post.

 

We can ignore I&E, but is the N180 a document Small Claims Court will send us to support Shoosmiths original letter asking for it to be heard in our local Court, do we then have 14 days to respond. Last thing I want is to ignore everything and as SS are in control they have asked for re-direction from Northampton to our local Court. Next thing we know is a letter says we need to attend Court XX

 

Thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

Best not to rush at this, although you are trying to resolve quickly to help your wifes health.

 

Shoosmiths letter re local court is standard blurb. You will be sent the N180 by the court and this is your opportunity to help decide the way forward. If you search online fir N180 small court claim form, you can see what it covers.

 

As i think i may have said before, you may gain greater comfort speaking to somebody from National Debtline. They can explain this all to you, answer any questions you have. You can then decide the best way forward for you.

[AndyOrch]

Thanks Andy,

 

Original defence was posted in my first post.

 

We can ignore I&E, but is the N180 a document Small Claims Court will send us to support Shoosmiths original letter asking for it to be heard in our local Court, do we then have 14 days to respond. Last thing I want is to ignore everything and as SS are in control they have asked for re-direction from Northampton to our local Court. Next thing we know is a letter says we need to attend Court XX

 

Thanks

 

This was your defence....???

 

"I have issued a formal request made under CPR 31.14 for the

disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of

each of the following documents mentioned in the Particulars of

this Claim:

 

 

1. The original agreement and terms and conditions from that date.

You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the

provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a

written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents

constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with

the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available

at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated

in the contract should also be attached.

2. The default notice alleged to have been served upon me,

together with proof of service

3. Evidence of how the balance claimed has been arrived at

4. Notice of Assignment.

 

None of the above have been issued to me previously by Nationwide

Building Society or Shoosmiths LLP and if this claim is to move

forward the above have to be addressed.

 

I have given Nationwide Building Society and Shoosmiths LLP 7 days

to comply in writing with the above documentation."

 

 

Oh dear..... not very CPR compliant...I would take time to look at some of the standard holding defences in the Financial Legal Success forum.

 

Nothing is happening with this claim until you receive the N180....post here on receipt...you will have to complete it and submit it by the date stated.

 

Andy

[skywalker1010]

This was your defence....???

 

"I have issued a formal request made under CPR 31.14 for the

disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of

each of the following documents mentioned in the Particulars of

this Claim:

 

 

1. The original agreement and terms and conditions from that date.

You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the

provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a

written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents

constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with

the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available

at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated

in the contract should also be attached.

2. The default notice alleged to have been served upon me,

together with proof of service

3. Evidence of how the balance claimed has been arrived at

4. Notice of Assignment.

 

None of the above have been issued to me previously by Nationwide

Building Society or Shoosmiths LLP and if this claim is to move

forward the above have to be addressed.

 

I have given Nationwide Building Society and Shoosmiths LLP 7 days

to comply in writing with the above documentation."

 

 

Oh dear..... not very CPR compliant...I would take time to look at some of the standard holding defences in the Financial Legal Success forum.

 

Nothing is happening with this claim until you receive the N180....post here on receipt...you will have to complete it and submit it by the date stated.

 

Andy

 

Andy,

The above was what was entered on the Money Claim site as a reference. I did indeed take a template CPR complaint form from this very site to originally respond:

 

Template removed please do not post to thread

Edited August 22, 2015 by Andyorch
CPR 31.14 removed.

[AndyOrch]

Your CPR 31.14 means nothing...its a civil request...its your defence that the claim will stand or fall on.

 

Andy

[skywalker1010]

Okay, I think we have everything now and need some assistance as we are woefully out of our depth.

 

We contacted Shoosmiths with an offer, by Registered Post, which has tracked to their PO Box but not picked up yet after a week.

 

The offer was to pay the outstanding over 5 years, an offer we recieved from them 2 years ago, and before anyone bites our head off saying why pay?

 

We want to put this behind us, it is too stressful for my wife and we can afford this offer which has no interest applied.

 

We have recieved a Directions Questionaire which we need to fill in and send to Northampton. Still reading this I am still unsure about what we are signing or requesting here. It gives details of a route of Mediation, sometimes by phone, but it gives a Court preference, so again my wife is panicking.

 

Please don't be harsh, it may seem we are rolling over and you guys have so much experience. But we would like to push Shoosmiths to accept the offer we can budget for and hopefully forget about any further action.

 

Any suggestions on what we do, obviously we need to fill in the form and send back first.

 

Thanks

[AndyOrch]

The Directions Questionnaire is simply to allocate the claim to track and finalise the directions for the claim to proceed.Both parties must complete this and return it by the date stated or the claim or defence may be struck out.

 

By completing the DQ you will note that there is the opportunity to enter into mediation...tick yes to this and yes to small claims track ( I assume this is the N180) the rest are tick boxes which are self explanatory.

 

Dont throw the towel in just yet lets see if they complete the DQ and pay the hearing fee...I will advice then on how to reach settlement and possibly avoid a CCJ.

 

But this is only possible if you complete the DQ...just post if you are unsure of anything.

 

Regards

 

Andy