Claim Form - United Utilities

[kjun]

That's the difference as you state from other utilities there are no pre-payment meters that can be fitted in the case of water (yet!) hence the legal proceedings however disconnection is the other option with commercial premises of course.

 

 

My experience working in the legal department of a water company (not this one so no conflict of interests here) is that there is a lot of doubt as to the effectiveness of court action however there are no other options.

 

 

Do you know how it used to work with water before deregulation when it was the "water board" as alas this was before my time? How was water rates collected and bad debt dealt with??

[AndyOrch]

"2045.13 is due from the defendant to the claimant for water service charges and any other charges incurred relating to such at XXXXXX for a period to 24/11/2014 full particulars of which have been supplied to the defendant "

 

Have full particulars been served on you?

[bgizzle]

"2045.13 is due from the defendant to the claimant for water service charges and any other charges incurred relating to such at XXXXXX for a period to 24/11/2014 full particulars of which have been supplied to the defendant "

 

Have full particulars been served on you?

 

All I have is the claim form with the paragraph Above. I do not have a view of what periods this refers to, no breakdown of debt just what they say in form. I'm not that knowledgeable of these legal matters but shouldn't they provide a notice to pursue court action and provide breakdown?

[kjun]

Some POC I have seen from other water companies include the billing end dates of the individual bills subject to the proceedings so maybe they are referring to the bills having been supplied maybe.

 

 

Letter Before Action is usually issued but would be surprised if there was no other payment reminders, maybe a default notice if UU report to the credit reference agencies ( a lot of water companies do now)

 

 

As suggested before worth contacting them and asking for copies just out of interest.

[bgizzle]

Some POC I have seen from other water companies include the billing end dates of the individual bills subject to the proceedings so maybe they are referring to the bills having been supplied maybe.

 

 

Letter Before Action is usually issued but would be surprised if there was no other payment reminders, maybe a default notice if UU report to the credit reference agencies ( a lot of water companies do now)

 

 

As suggested before worth contacting them and asking for copies just out of interest.

 

I have contacted them and got nothing back as yet. Hence the entry in my defence.

[AndyOrch]

How about this as a starter for 10.

 

-----------

Claim number: XXXXXXXX

Claimant: UNITED UTILITIES WATER PLC

Defendant: Bgizzle

 

Particulars of Claim

 

2045.13 is due from the defendant to the claimant for water service charges and any other charges incurred relating to such at XXXXXX for a period to 24/11/2014 full particulars of which have been supplied to the defendant

 

Proposed Defence.

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. The claimant has not provided the full particulars to defendant as stated in claim form. The Claimant has not provided any details as to how the sums claimed have accrued.

 

3. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.Therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof.

 

4. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[bgizzle]

Thanks Andy. Just out of curiousity, should I submit defence asap or wait until close to the deadline. I'm overseas for a family bereavement on deadline day

[AndyOrch]

Submit now as you are not waiting on any CPR response.

[bgizzle]

Submit now as you are not waiting on any CPR response.

 

Thanks Andy

[bgizzle]

Update:

 

UU and I have been in telephone conversations regarding this claim and have accepted to enter into a Tomlin agreement over the telephone following my defence.

 

However they sent through a Reply to Defence which stated that the claim has been issued correctly and they intend to continue with it.

 

They request that a payment should be made for the complete amount immediately.

 

Alternatively I should complete and return the enclosed withdrawal of defence form making an offer of payment but this will result in judgement being entered against me incurring an additional £40 fee to be added to the outstanding debt.

 

This arrived while I was away dealing with family issues overseas and for me differs from what was agreed over the telephone.

 

I rung them up to verify.

The lady in the legal dept confirmed this was different from earlier agreement and urged me to write back in with an offer and to propose a Tomlin offer in order to prevent any judgement order and my reasons for wanting this i.e. Risk of Losing Job.

 

Any advice on format for this offer? I have 24hrs to send this off.

[AndyOrch]

I personally wouldn't do anything unless they proceed to allocation...as the claim is stayed there is no rush and no chance of any judgment order.

 

Andy

[bgizzle]

Thanks Andy for your swift response - Apologies for being dim but does this mean I should wait for allocation to a judge or to mediation before making an offer of repayment or getting into a Tomlin Order?

[AndyOrch]

At present...defence submitted...claimant is silent....no response to the court or told them they wish to proceed...so anything that goes on between you and the claimant the court and claim is blind to.

 

They have to make a decision now...that's why they are testing the water with you with talk of judgments and Tomlin Orders etc...do they proceed and submit a DQ and pay the hearing fee or can they get you to sign a Tomlin Order and detract your defence.

[bgizzle]

At present...defence submitted...claimant is silent....no response to the court or told them they wish to proceed...so anything that goes on between you and the claimant the court and claim is blind to.

 

They have to make a decision now...that's why they are testing the water with you with talk of judgments and Tomlin Orders etc...do they proceed and submit a DQ and pay the hearing fee or can they get you to sign a Tomlin Order and detract your defence.

 

My Apologies for now being clear earlier on. The claimant has responded to defence and copied the court via a "Reply to Defence" and provided a water bill and a breakdown from their computer systems for how the amount was accrued.

 

The court has not however responded to me in writing.

 

It is my thinking that I make an offer via a Without Prejudice Letter. Is this advisable?

[AndyOrch]

Ah that make a difference.....

 

Do you agree with the breakdown and charges now or do you still wish to defend?

 

So have you received a Directions Questionnaire yet? (N180)

[bgizzle]

DQ not received.

The breakdown makes sense too and I'd rather avoid court and CCJ but can't afford to pay in one lump sum so consent order is agreeable to me

[AndyOrch]

Excellent go with the Tomlin then.....the defence worked:wink:

 

It avoids the CCJ and puts you back on a level playing field with manageable payment plan.

 

Let us know when its finalised and sealed and I will amend your thread title to reflect the outcome.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[bgizzle]

This is where the confusion sets in. Do I make the offer in writing or wait for mediation and make the offer? Is there a format in which I must make the offer - things to say OR not say in the letter?

[AndyOrch]

Have they actually enclosed a draft Tomlin Order...or just used the phrase?

[bgizzle]

Used the phrase in their letter and telephone calls to me. The one thing they included in their letter is this for me to complete...

 

Dear Sirs

 

Claim Number: XXXXXX Total Due: £X,XXX

Customer Acc No: XXXXX

 

UU vs Bgizzle

 

I hereby give notice of my intention to withdraw the defence submitted in this matter. I admit to the claim in full as shown above and offer to make settlement by payment of £__ per month.

 

I understand this will result in judgement being entered against me and a fee of £40 will be added on to the debt, which has been included in the above balance

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

Signed:______

Dated:_______

 

I challenged the above as I didn't think this was in the spirit of a Tomlin Order or what was discussed over the telephone

 

I was then asked to write back with a proposal of Tomlin, reasons for Tomlin and offer which would be put in front of court

[AndyOrch]

Under no circumstances sign and agree the above...

 

Edit to following to suit your requirements and send it back to them.....

 

IN THE XXXXXXXXXXXXX county court CLAIM NO: XXXXXXXX

 

Between Claimant

 

 

Claimant

 

and

 

Defendant

 

 

 

 

Tomlin Order

 

 

Upon the parties having agreed terms of settlement

 

 

BY CONSENT IT IS ORDERED THAT:

 

 

1. All further proceedings in this action shall be stayed upon the terms set out in the

the attached schedule, except for the purpose of carrying such terms into effect.

 

2. Each party shall have liberty to apply to the court if the other party does not give

effect to the terms set out in the schedule.

 

3.No order for costs.

 

 

Dated ......................... .......

 

We consent to the making of an order in the above terms

 

 

......................... .................

Sols for the Claimant

 

 

 

......................... .................

 

XXXXXXXxx,Defendant

 

 

 

 

SCHEDULE

 

 

1. The Defendant shall pay to the Claimant the sum of £xxxxx in Full and final

settlement of this claim

 

2. No charges will accrue on the settlement sum

 

3. The Defendant will pay to the Claimant on or before xx xxxxx 2015 the sum of

£XX.00 followed by payments of £XX.00 on or before the xxth of each month and every

month thereafter until the balance has been paid in full.

 

4. If payment is not made on the due date the Claimant shall give notice in writing of such a

default to the Defendant and if payment is not made within 14 days from the date of such

notice the Claimant shall be at liberty to apply to lift the stay and proceed with the claim.

 

5. The amount of the monthly instalment payment shall be reviewed at 12 monthly intervals. The defendant shall co-operate with the Claimant on such review by providing the Claimant with such information about her assets income and expenditure,as the Claimant shall reasonably request.

 

6.If following any review the Claimant and Defendant agree a new monthly instalment amount, the new monthly instalment shall become payable under paragraph 3,with effect from the next instalment date.

 

7.If following any review, either the Claimant or the Defendant considers a new monthly instalment amount should be payable but cannot agree this with the other party, either party shall be at liberty to apply to the Court for the Court to determine the monthly instalment payable and thereafter the stay and settlement contained in this schedule do continue.

 

8.The defendant agrees to pay the costs of this Consent to the value of £50.00

 

 

Thats how a Tomlin Order should be drafted

[bgizzle]

You're a star Andy. I will modify and send that ASAP

[AndyOrch]

In the meantime should the DQ arrive ...complete it and return by the stated date...as if you are proceeding.

[bgizzle]

Will do

[bgizzle]

Andy How is this?

 

Cover Letter -

 

Legal Department

United Utilities Water Limited

WA5 3LP

 

Account Number XXXXXX

Claim Number XXXXX

Date DD/MM/YYYY

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Without Prejudice: Settlement Offer for Claim

In your letter dated ddmmyy and telephone calls on ddmm yyyy with your offices it was confirmed that a speedy resolution of this matter via an Out of Court Settlement (e.g. Tomlin Order) would suit both parties for the above mentioned claim.

 

I have therefore drafted a proposed Tomlin Order which I trust is acceptable to both Parties.

 

In my case I will want to avoid wasting the court’s time and having the risk of a judgement being entered against me – as a CCJ will significantly affect my working situation and increase the risk of me losing my job and any ability to pay off any debts.

 

Please note that this offer is made without me implying an admission of liability, abandoning any claim, privilege or right. A copy of this has been also been sent to the Northampton County Court

 

 

Yours Sincerely,

Bgizzle

 

 

 

 

 

 

IN THE COUNTY COURT BUSINESS CENTRE

Claim No. XXXXX

BETWEEN:

UNITED UTILITIES WATER PLC Claimant

- and -

Bgizzle Defendant

 

_________________________________

TOMLIN ORDER

_________________________________

 

Upon the parties having agreed terms of settlement

 

BY CONSENT IT IS ORDERED THAT:

1. All further proceedings in this action shall be stayed upon the terms set out in the attached schedule, except for the purpose of carrying such terms into effect.

 

2. Each party shall have liberty to apply to the court if the other party does not give effect to the terms set out in the schedule.

 

 

3. No order for costs.

 

Dated ......................... .......

 

We consent to the making of an order in the above terms

 

 

......................... .................

Solicitors for the Claimant

 

 

......................... .................

Bgizzle , Defendant

 

SCHEDULE

1. The Defendant shall pay to the Claimant the sum of £2,045 in Full and final settlement of this claim.

 

2. No charges will accrue on the settlement sum.

 

3. The Defendant will pay to the Claimant on or before 25th August 2015 the sum of £204.50 followed by payments of £204.50 on or before the 25th of each month and every month thereafter (for 10 months) until the balance has been paid in full.

 

4. If payment is not made on the due date the Claimant shall give notice in writing of such a default to the Defendant and if payment is not made within 14 days from the date of such notice the Claimant shall be at liberty to apply to lift the stay and proceed with the claim.

 

5. The amount of the monthly instalment payment shall be reviewed at 10 monthly intervals. The defendant shall co-operate with the Claimant on such review by providing the Claimant with such information about his assets income and expenditure, as the Claimant shall reasonably request.

 

6. If following any review the Claimant and Defendant agree a new monthly instalment amount, the new monthly instalment shall become payable under paragraph 3, with effect from the next instalment date.

 

7. If following any review, either the Claimant or the Defendant considers a new monthly instalment amount should be payable but cannot agree this with the other party, either party shall be at liberty to apply to the Court for the Court to determine the monthly instalment payable and thereafter the stay and settlement contained in this schedule do continue.

 

8. The defendant agrees to pay the costs of this Consent to the value of £50.00