Working your holiday entitlement

[howlsatthemoon]

Hello folks, have been a member for a good number of years but not posted very much. I now have a question that hopefully somebody may be able to give some advice about.

 

 

For the last 21 years I have worked as a Janitor for a local government authority, about 4 years ago they put some Janitors (not all) on to term-time contracts, unfortunately I was one of the ones that was put on to a term-time contract.

 

 

More recently they (government authority) have changed us from weekly paid to monthly paid, so what they do now is calculate your yearly wage, including holiday entitlement, and divide it by 12 to give you a monthly wage paid on the 14th of each month, any overtime you work can take up to 10 weeks to get paid depending on when you work it.

 

 

I have a wedding to go to in September of this year (2015), live in Scotland so it will be in the middle of a school term.

 

 

Would I be able to take a couple of days off and claim it as holidays? I understand (but not confirmed) that I get paid time and a half for working holidays and this is included in my yearly salary. I think I am entitled to 30 days holiday because of my time of service. By my calculations I would only lose 1 day wages if I take two days off and claim it as holidays.

 

 

Have not seen a copy of my "new" contract since they changed me to term-time but my "old" one said that holidays must be taken outside term-time. As I am only working term-time now then surely I am entitled to take my holidays during term time.

 

 

Sorry for the long post but if anyone has some advice it would be gratefully received.

 

 

Thanks

[Sidewinder]

Sounds as though you work in a school? I think from the sounds of it you might need to ask for special permission to take a holiday in term time as your contract does seem specific in that holiday must be taken outside term time.

 

It is a bit like student holidays in term time - they can be taken, but only by permission of the Head Teacher. In your case I would discuss with your immediate management, stress why it is important that you are able to attend the wedding and explain that it is out of your control, you know that it is strictly speaking not permitted and ask what can be done about it - whether paid or unpaid. September is still some way off so cover could probably be arranged for the time off.

 

Ultimately any employer can dictate when holiday can and cannot be taken and there isn't much that you could do if they say no, short of either leaving or failing to turn up - which would inevitably lead to disciplinary action!

[howlsatthemoon]

Hi Sidewinder, thanks for your reply.

 

 

Yes I do work in a school, but my contract was changed 4 years ago to a term-time contract. In this contract I do not get any holidays but get paid for my holiday entitlement, which I think is at time and a half. When the school is closed I do not get paid but their way of giving me a wage every month is to add together my annual wages and holiday entitlement and divide it by 12.

 

 

I am not sure about employment law but surely they cannot make you work your holiday entitlement unless I have agreed to it? To date I have never received a new contract.

 

 

They have also told me that I can work elsewhere during the school closures.

 

 

Thanks.

[Conniff]

You say you don't have a contract yet and as the job description has changed, then I think a new contract needs signing. Put your request in now for two days paid leave in September.

My thinking is they cannot say that your contract says .... because you don't have a contract.

[ericsbrother]

then you are entitled to paid leave and may take it upon request at suitable notice. Their problem will be trying to deduct the money for the extra days you will have taken during the summer recess over the 12 payment periods as that is what they say they are doing.

In essence you dont get paid for the summer but get your salary for the 38 wks as 12 chunks (they should add money for your holiday pay as your summer isnt their time so you should get paid time off in lieu).

Be worth checking the figures they gave you initially to see if you are getting paid time off.

[howlsatthemoon]

Thanks Conniff, school is closed for Easter but I shall put my request in, when we return, to see what they say. I have also fired off an email to my union (Unison) asking for some advice, will see what they recommend or advise.

[howlsatthemoon]

then you are entitled to paid leave and may take it upon request at suitable notice. Their problem will be trying to deduct the money for the extra days you will have taken during the summer recess over the 12 payment periods as that is what they say they are doing.

In essence you dont get paid for the summer but get your salary for the 38 wks as 12 chunks (they should add money for your holiday pay as your summer isnt their time so you should get paid time off in lieu).

Be worth checking the figures they gave you initially to see if you are getting paid time off.

 

 

Hi ericsbrother, thanks for your reply.

 

 

I have asked for a breakdown of my wages showing what was salary and what was holiday entitlement. The person I spoke to passed me onto someone else who in turn passed me onto someone else, after getting passed onto seven different people I ended up speaking to the first person I talked to who said she would get back in touch, still waiting. After five weeks of getting passed from pillar to post I am no further forward on finding out how my wages are calculated.

[howlsatthemoon]

Well have had a reply from my union rep, said they had spoken to HR, the reply was :-

 

 

"Your holiday entitlement is worked out over the year and paid in your salary as you state. Your allocation of holidays are now when the school is closed. You have no other A/L entitlement outside of this."

 

 

Still haven't a clue to-

 

1. How my holiday entitlement is worked out
   
2. Why I have to work my holiday entitlement
   
3. Why I can't take my holidays during the time I am actually working for the council
   

More Questions to be fired off then :o(

[Emmzzi]

your employer can dictate every single day you take holidays; there is no right to free will!Their reply seems fair to me. That's how a term time contract works. I'd just ask for clarification on the arithmetic; there's no other rights to be claimed here.

[Sidewinder]

This is unfortunate but not unlawful. The holiday policy as stated seems in order - you were asking for them to be flexible but it would appear that they are not willing to be. You can indeed argue the amount of holiday but not the fact that they will only allow holiday to be taken within certain date periods which coincide with school holidays.

 

You may well now have to make a request for unpaid leave only rather than moving some days from the permitted period into term time as an exception. They can still say no though and my gut feeling is that they will say no - otherwise why refuse a request to take it as paid holiday?

 

Where you go then, who knows?

[howlsatthemoon]

Thanks for all your replies, think I will just put in the request and see what happens. Paid or unpaid I shall go to the wedding ;o)