New Landlord using old tenancy agreement.

[dccantona]

February 2014 Old landlord sold the block I live in & new LL via a new letting agent informed us that the current AST would be honored & that the deposit would also reflect the changes. Aug 2014 end of AST the new LL asked us to sign a memo of renewal for additional 6 months whilst increasing the rent. LL stated this is not a new contract & that it was only to notify us of the increase. Note 30 days notice was not given. We believe this is now a Statutory Periodic. The council has informed us that planning to refurbish has been received and that we would all need to leave once permission has been granted; anytime around Xmas.

I have looked at the deposit with DPS & though it has new LL details it has never been reissued either because of the change of ownership or change of contract . AST to SP etc. Also it states that it was not protected for 40 days even though it was through old LL.

Therefore we are awaiting S21 ( not everyone had deposit protected after 30 days). My question would be this because of the negligence of new LL/LA if no one has a contract with new LL is S21 valid? Surely a contract would have to be submitted as evidence in court & as no one has a signed contract with new LL what could that mean ?.

Also if deposit through negligence of previous LL but assigned to new LL is 40 days old would that make a S21 invalid? via LA they stated they'd honor the deposit.

SUPERSTRIKE LTD when AST becomes SP. Are the other tenants deposits not valid They are with DPS.

Finally if it is SP & everyone's rental period starts 5th of the month does that mean 2 months must be given by the 4th of that month; or carry over to next month.Thanks

[mariner51]

Perhaps you can add some paragraphs for each question to aid comprehension?

No new Contract was signed, but PI should have been re-issued within 30 days of start of SPT

Did new LL/LA provide you with Notice that he was the new LL?

New LL is resp for any deposit lapses of old LL.

Any s21 a notice served (received) should specify an 'after' expiry date of at least 2 months ahead or also contain a 'saving clause' which allows the expiry date to equate to next valid date.

[raydetinu]

How do the council know when the refurb works will start? and why would it require Planning permission unless major alteration work envisaged!

granting of planning permission is valid for three years, so LL can start work anytime before that expiry date.

Maybe an idea to ask LL/LA what the programme is for the works.

[dccantona]

OK PI- payment increase?This was at 4 days notice & told sign or receive a month's notice to quit.

 

Back in Feb was advise on new LL. Deposit was reassigned but still showing not protected originally for 40 days. Surely if they bothered to change this why not have a new cover sheet to the old AST with new details ?

 

Not told by LL but informed by council letter of complete refurb which requires vacant property. This is a multi national co. whose MO is to turn old properties around & hike up rents by 50%. They have only now admitted to wanting to refurb asap. Asking us after many years here to pay rent up to the time they get planning permission.

OK so it's their property however when; not if S21 is given; will this be valid if there is no signed contract with new LL. The memo of renewal was signed by both parties but relates ( according to LL) to the existing contract which was with old LL.

Surely the memo is not a contract? We are all now on SPT . And does this mean that a new deposit should have been assigned with DPS.

DPS claim that it is not neccesary but surely recent Superstrike case states differently when AST becomes SPT.

[raydetinu]

No need for new deposit protection, just rolls over as long as LL pays fee etc.

best to check with scheme that protection is in place with new LL.

 

 

Rent can only be increased once in 12 months, and have to give a minimum of one rent period notice, however if you have paid it then you have accepted it.

Council were notifying you as interested parties so you could comment or object to the proposals, before they give approval.

 

 

Contract exists if you have been formally notified of change of LL and their details( contact address in UK etc. ).

I believe you are now on an SPT basis, ( however you do say you signed a six month extension in August? ) so LL would have to give you at least two months clear notice of repossession, as M51 says, which as you know after that date they can court action to evict which could take a few more weeks.

 

 

so if you have not had an S21 yet you are ok to about February at least; could be more but would depend on how far advanced their plans are for starting work.

The Council will not let you know when the Application is approved; you can check progress and comments on the Councils Planning Portal.

 

 

Maybe worth getting all the tenants together and approaching the LL as a group, as potentially you could delay their plans if you stick together! and maybe negotiate a longer notice period or incentive for things to go smoothly.

[dccantona]

Thanks for reply. Re Council have already marshaled the troops. Spanner in works have written to councillors a s well . Insisting on a full planning hearing as the Unitary Develop. Plan states x amount of dwellings need + 10% of parking ; which is not the case.

 

Re the contract though We do not have a contract with the new landlord he left the old one in place . Yes we were made aware of the change of ownership etc ; even got the new deposit details from DPS. Unless there is something in law re transfer of contract I don't see how they could go to court without signed contracts unless he then claims we are all now squatters!

 

The memo of renewal THEY insisted was not a contract , but only an addendum to the old contract asking for a 9% rental increase.

I do agree that whatever the situ the contract is a SPT & therefore 2 months notice is required . Missed Nov 5th lets see about Dec 5th.

[45002]

For Reference, OP previous threads

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?430246-tenancy-agreement-memorandum-of-renewal

 

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5032025&highlight=

[camptownraces]

There is no reason why new landlord should not use old tenancy agreement.

 

When your property was sold to a new owner, your tenancy continued on the same terms and conditions as previously, AND

(1) your new landlord assumed landlord responsibilities, and told you of this, presumably including an address in England or Wales for the service of notices;

(2) your (new) landlord served a notice of rent increase, which you could have disputed if you liked. But if you paid the higher rent it is deemed that you have accepted this.

(3) your (new) landlord assumed all the responsibilities of the previous landlord with regard to your deposit: you should assume your deposits have been passed from the old to the new landlord.

 

Deposit protection issues are only of note once a new tenancy starts - this could be a "new" or renewal tenancy, or progression to a "rolling" or statutory periodic tenancy. At this stage you may have been served the prescribed information (PI) with respect to the deposit. Have you received this?

 

Deposit protection has to be in order if landlord wants to serve a valid S21 notice.

[dccantona]

Thanks in response

1) We were informed of new landlord details but never received a new contract. Still wanting to know the law re transfer of contract. eg the current tenancy agreement that we are all bound to is with the old landlord just because the title of the property has been sold on we have nothing with the new LL.

2) Just before the AST became a SPT did we get 4 days notice of rent increase. In affect we were told sign or leave no 30 days notice , but yes we all agreed to rent increase. Whilst accepting the new amount where do we stand vis a vis 30 days notice not given. ie if 30 days notice is not given is the only penalty that the rent increase starts the following month?

3) When the SPT came into affect no new terms were served by LL or DPS. Therefore I agree if the change in contract status requires new documentation then a S21 would be invalid which is the case.

[camptownraces]

"1) We were informed of new landlord details but never received a new contract. Still wanting to know the law re transfer of contract. eg the current tenancy agreement that we are all bound to is with the old landlord just because the title of the property has been sold on we have nothing with the new LL."

 

Sorry, we didn't make ourselves clear. You don't need a new contract, the terms and conditions of the old contract continue. Only the name and address of the landlord has changed.

 

"Re the contract though We do not have a contract with the new landlord he left the old one in place . Yes we were made aware of the change of ownership etc ; even got the new deposit details from DPS. Unless there is something in law re transfer of contract I don't see how they could go to court without signed contracts unless he then claims we are all now squatters! "

 

You do have a contract - the paperwork consists of the original contract plus the notification you were served that the landlord is now "somebody else" at the "new landlord's address." This would be perfectly clear to the judge if it went to court. You are NOT squatters.

 

You keep saying "we". Are you speaking on behalf of all the occupants of the block of flats? Or is it just you and the co-tenants of your flat?

 

You did get some information about deposit protection from the DPS.

 

But are you sure what document it was that you signed in August - did you keep a copy?

Were you signing merely to acknowledge receipt of a notice of rent increase, or were you signing up for something else?

 

"3) When the SPT came into affect no new terms were served by LL or DPS. Therefore I agree if the change in contract status requires new documentation then a S21 would be invalid which is the case."

There is no need for any new terms to be served by the LL or DPS, the AST continues on the same terms as before, but as a statutory periodic tenancy.

 

Various cases are going through the courts about re-protecting deposits when a SPT arises, and it's we don't have a definitive ruling yet, afaik, since nothing has got as far as the Supreme Court.

[raydetinu]

As far as I am aware and the DPS say, you do not have to re protect deposit when contract goes periodic; it just carries on, on the same basis.

The only time this became contentious is when the contract went periodic after April 2007, before that date you did not have to protect deposit, however the court ruled that a SPT is in fact a new contract, regarding deposit protection, and therefore when the localism act came in on April 2012 the deposit had to be protected, for all contracts that came about after April 2007.