c.v - e.s.a - avanta??

[jordigirl]

Received a letter this morning about my 1st appointment for the wrag based wp

 

It says I have to either take a C.V. with me or record some details in relation to previous work experience.

 

Why would they want these - surely I am not going to be forced into work

 

thanks for any advice

[Mr.P]

The CV is purely so that they can stick it their files and say to the auditors "look at the wonderful job we are doing". It goes without saying that once you have supplied the information, you can not be certain that will not be circulated to all and sundry.

 

If you have any concerns about data security or integrity of the company involved, simply provide the minimum of information or just say "No". You could also ask for their data retention policy along with a bunch of other pointed questions - Note: If you do, you risk being branded a "difficult customer" or a "trouble maker".

 

Addendum: Just seen their entry on the Data Protection Register...

 

Who the information may be shared with

We sometimes need to share the personal information we process with the individual themself and also with other organisations. Where this is necessary we are required to comply with all aspects of the Data Protection Act (DPA). What follows is a description of the types of organisations we may need to share some of the personal information we process with for one or more reasons.

 

 

Where necessary or required we share information with:

 

• business associates and other professional advisers
  
• educators and examining bodies
  
• current, past or prospective employers
  
• family, associates and representatives of the person whose personal data we are processing
  
• employment and recruitment agencies
  
• financial organisations
  
• credit reference agencies
  
• debt collection and tracing agencies
  
• suppliers and service providers;
  
• persons making an enquiry or complaint
  
• other companies in the same group
  

WTF !!!! Sharing data with DCAs and tracing agencies !!! A good enough reason to tell them exactly where to go and provide a map.

[antone]

Note also that while you are on ESA, you can't be mandated to apply for jobs, take up work (paid or unpaid) or undertake medical treatment. Anything the WP asks you to do must be "reasonable under your circumstances".

[jasta11]

Incredible. Love that bit about 'sharing personal information with the individual themself'. Handy if you're mortal drunk and forget where you live - just give Avanta a call and they'll tell you.

 

Sharing your info with 'Persons making an enquiry'..so basically, it's anyone who asks for it then.

 

Pass on that one, I think.

[jordigirl]

Thanks for the replies and the advice

Great service as usual

 

I can't seem to find much info about Avanta on here most seems to be Ingeus

 

Any info on these would be helpful - or even a point in right direction

 

thanks again

[jordigirl]

@ antone

 

Funny you mention that - when i went to the jcp for the 1st interview with them before being placed with avanta -

She told me they can tell me to start receiving more treatment if needed -

and that they can overrule anything my Dr or Psychiatrist recommends

 

Funny I didn't think these hcp's had so much power

[estellyn]

@ antone

 

Funny you mention that - when i went to the jcp for the 1st interview with them before being placed with avanta -

She told me they can tell me to start receiving more treatment if needed -

and that they can overrule anything my Dr or Psychiatrist recommends

 

Funny I didn't think these hcp's had so much power

 

No they don't. If I were you I'd make an official complaint about being told this - it is unacceptable that they are attempting to manipulate potentially vulnerable people in this way for financial gain.

[jordigirl]

on the letter i received from the jcp, it says

 

" if you fail to do any work-related activity that avanta tells you to do without a good reason your employment and support allowance could be reduced

 

i have just noticed the woman from jcp didn't sign it just put pp and under that it says

 

kevin hudspith

manager (on behalf of secretary of state)

[antone]

on the letter i received from the jcp, it says

 

" if you fail to do any work-related activity that avanta tells you to do without a good reason your employment and support allowance could be reduced

 

i have just noticed the woman from jcp didn't sign it just put pp and under that it says

 

kevin hudspith

manager (on behalf of secretary of state)

 

As an ESA claimant, Avanta may not mandate you to undertake medical treatment. Actually, they can't mandate anyone, regardless of the benefit they claim, to undertake medical treatment. An Avanta HCP can't override your GP or other doctors. I agree with Estellyn - you should complain about being told otherwise. Pretty much all the HCP can mandate you to do is show up and talk to him or her.

 

Note also that if Avanta wants to mandate you to do something, they must inform you in good time via a letter sent through the post or handed to you in person. Phone calls, texts and emails are not acceptable for this purpose. The letter they send is called a Mandatory Activity Notification (MAN) and it must be worded correctly in order to be valid.

[antone]

For more information on the Work Programme, see the Provider Guidance here. Chapter 3a covers mandation.

[jordigirl]

the letter i received is headed work programme insight appointment,

 

and my appointment is with an employment consultant and is likely to take 2-3 hours ( she told me about an hour me mum can't sit for long she has m.s and will be attending with me)

 

i did inform them at jcp that i couldn't attend alone

 

this is really stressing me out and i aint even started on the merry go round yet

[Mr.P]

An Avanta HCP can't override your GP or other doctors. [...] Pretty much all the HCP can mandate you to do is show up and talk to him or her.

 

They can indeed mandate a claimant to turn up under the threat of sanction, but even then, I doubt they could force you to say anything.

[antone]

They can indeed mandate a claimant to turn up under the threat of sanction, but even then, I doubt they could force you to say anything.

 

I don't know about the rules for the WP specifically, but claimants mandated to JCP appointments are required to attend and participate - merely showing up and saying nothing won't be enough.

[dyfed]

I don't know about the rules for the WP specifically, but claimants mandated to JCP appointments are required to attend and participate - merely showing up and saying nothing won't be enough.

 

Well isnt "participation" a bit subjective?

[antone]

Well isnt "participation" a bit subjective?

 

Yes. If a claimant attends but the interviewer feels that he or she did not "participate", the matter gets referred to a DM. As with many other aspects of benefit rules, it's a grey area and common sense should be applied. How often common sense actually is applied, I don't know. Most people who turn up for interviews don't sit in the corner refusing to speak, so the issue hardly ever comes up.

 

Note also that you "participate" in an interview even if you disagree with the interviewer, argue with him or her, or otherwise attempt to put your case. But yes, it is subjective and that's by design.

[jordigirl]

hi,

just been for my 1st interview with avanta - what rubbish

 

she says she should send me on a confidence building course, with the view to helping me get a job lol

 

can she do this ??

 

thanks

[estellyn]

Depends on whether the descriptors you scored points for indicate this is something you can't do.

 

Do you know what you scored points for?

[RebeccaPidgeon]

the letter i received is headed work programme insight appointment,

 

and my appointment is with an employment consultant and is likely to take 2-3 hours ( she told me about an hour me mum can't sit for long she has m.s and will be attending with me)

 

i did inform them at jcp that i couldn't attend alone

 

this is really stressing me out and i aint even started on the merry go round yet

 

Dont get too stressed..... for the sake of clarification, note that Welfare To Work Clerks, who you meet within the Work Programme, are not THAT QUALIFIED, are more than likely to have moved out of their previous role (which could be a Sales Clerk working in a Call Centre), and there has been a trend (which commenced within the Flexible New Deal) that lowly Welfare To Work Clerks may be given the ego boosting term of "Consultant".

 

If you wish to discuss you case further, I suggest that you seek a meeting with a Professional Careers Advisor..... any Welfare To Work Clerk who you meet (even when they have a grand sounding job title) is not going to be of any use.

[jordigirl]

yes i scored points for getting about - b 9 points

 

and social contact - c 6 points

 

hope this helps

[estellyn]

The social contact one should help. Write a letter or email (preferable if you have an email address as you can prove it was sent and received) explaining, include details of the descriptor and proof of the points you scored - explain that you cannot be mandated to attend any any course due to your issues with social contact as indicated by your assessment (or appeal results, whichever is appropriate). direct them to the DWP if they require more info.

[jordigirl]

thanks estellyn will do that

[caledfwlch]

As far as I know a provider cannot mandate you to undertake any training whilst on ESA regardless of what discriptors you have points for.

 

They can mandate you to attend appointments and that is it. They cannot mandate you to work, train or attend a work trial not can they mandate medical treatment.

 

A very good argument could in fact be made that a confidence building course is a psychiatric/medical treatment anyway.

 

Anyone who has signed the data waivers at their first appointment I would recomend formally removing that right. They may threaten sanctions for doing so but you cannot be sanctioned or obligated to sign. They threatened me when I refused and were not happy when I asked for that threat in writing so she had to back down + the argument was in full hearing and view of several other "clients" she clearly thought having a go in public like that and forcing me would make the others more pliable, however the result meant she embarressed herself looked incompetent and the other clients learned about their rights!

[Mr.P]

A very good argument could in fact be made that a confidence building course is a psychiatric/medical treatment anyway.

 

Some of these "courses" use Neuro-linguistic programming methods to reinforce the "tutors" opinions - NLP* is generally regarded with derision and contempt by many experts in the mental health and education fields.

 

One way to challenge any placements on these "courses" is to ask (demand ?) written evidence in answer to the following:

 

• What steps have been taken to ascertain that this activity is suitable to my circumstances and condition ?
  
• What is the goal of this activity and how will it help me achieve the desired outcome ?
  

 

*) NLP was (and I suspect, still is) a popular method used by the likes of A4e - You know the line, "you're claiming benefits so you are worthless. Just think how much better off you would be if you were working".... I would respond with "you don't have anything of value to offer, why not provide something worthwhile - Bull in, s*** out"..... "... and no, I will not sign anything until I have read it, corrected all your spelling mistakes, errors, and omissions."

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Some of these "courses" use Neuro-linguistic programming methods to reinforce the "tutors" opinions - NLP* is generally regarded with derision and contempt by many experts in the mental health and education fields.

 

One way to challenge any placements on these "courses" is to ask (demand ?) written evidence in answer to the following:

 

 

• What steps have been taken to ascertain that this activity is suitable to my circumstances and condition ?
  
• What is the goal of this activity and how will it help me achieve the desired outcome ?
  

 

 

*) NLP was (and I suspect, still is) a popular method used by the likes of A4e - You know the line, "you're claiming benefits so you are worthless. Just think how much better off you would be if you were working".... I would respond with "you don't have anything of value to offer, why not provide something worthwhile - Bull in, s*** out"..... "... and no, I will not sign anything until I have read it, corrected all your spelling mistakes, errors, and omissions."

Sadly, some people are easily swayed, and buy anything which Snake Oil Salesmen try to sell.