Black Horse calculations.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Please could someone look at this and give me some advice.

 

I have added up all of the figures on the agreements It would appear that in total the amount paid on this account is £25,520.89. the amount due was £20,820.00

 

However there is some figures from the time of the PPi settlement which are very confusing. Payments in and out of the account which do not make any sense. This would appear to have caused the discrepancy.

 

The problem now as far as I can see is that IDEM now hold a secured loan (mortgage) on our house and Black Horse appear to have washed their hands of t

 

 

he debt which figures apparently show is overpaid.

 

How do I now sort this out?

 

 

 

Hi Batman,

 

 

You will need to check the Land Registry to see if the mortgage charge is there.

 

 

It will Tuesday before you can do that.

 

Is this from a SAR to BH?

[batman1956]

Not a SAR but the result of the letter sent in post#50.

 

We got statements from them for the duration of the account. There are a few discrepancies i.e interest added BEFORE the first payment was even due. Amounts added back to the account after a PPI refund in 2010.

 

All very strange and of course it would now seem that we have paid far more than we should have and according to them still owe over £8,000.

 

We did SAR them a few years ago but they sent over 4,000 pages of documentation in no particular order for every account that we ever held with the Lloyds banking group.

It was just too overwhelming to sort out.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Not a SAR but the result of the letter sent in post#50.

 

We got statements from them for the duration of the account. There are a few discrepancies i.e interest added BEFORE the first payment was even due. Amounts added back to the account after a PPI refund in 2010.

 

All very strange and of course it would now seem that we have paid far more than we should have and according to them still owe over £8,000.

 

We did SAR them a few years ago but they sent over 4,000 pages of documentation in no particular order for every account that we ever held with the Lloyds banking group.

It was just too overwhelming to sort out.

 

 

 

 

I agree seems to be a major discrepancy!

 

 

Now I would suggest that a further SAR with an insistence that a "key" and explanation of all the data (this is supposed to happen now but often "gets forgotten".

 

 

It would be a good idea to be "specific " as to what you want to see.

[batman1956]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]52902[/ATTACH]

 

This seems to be the offending page. It appears that the PPI refund of £1,780.67 was actually ADDED to the account and not subtracted. I have noticed another post with a similar problem. Could this be the case there also?

 

I have calculated that by using their statements as evidence (totalling the payments made to the account shown on them) that payments made are £19,017.27.

Add to this amount the PPI refund and whatever else should be credited from the above statement page. (I would be grateful if anyone could decipher it) then we have overpaid by quite an amount.

 

At the moment I have a letter written and ready to go detailing the above but would greatly appreciate opinions as to what I am stating being right or wrong.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]52902[/ATTACH]

 

This seems to be the offending page. It appears that the PPI refund of £1,780.67 was actually ADDED to the account and not subtracted. I have noticed another post with a similar problem. Could this be the case there also?

 

I have calculated that by using their statements as evidence (totalling the payments made to the account shown on them) that payments made are £19,017.27.

Add to this amount the PPI refund and whatever else should be credited from the above statement page. (I would be grateful if anyone could decipher it) then we have overpaid by quite an amount.

 

At the moment I have a letter written and ready to go detailing the above but would greatly appreciate opinions as to what I am stating being right or wrong.

Hi batman, I see what you mean I'm no accountant but that certainly looks like the repayment has increased the balance no t reduced it.

 

 

I have no doubt others will have a view on this.

[batman1956]

Thanks Brig. The whole of that page is extremely confusing.

Payments in and out,interest refund and other things.

The important thing is that their own figures seem to hang them.

The problem is how do I get them to admit it?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Thanks Brig. The whole of that page is extremely confusing.

Payments in and out,interest refund and other things.

The important thing is that their own figures seem to hang them.

The problem is how do I get them to admit it?

##

 

 

There seems to be no "balancing" debit/credit to show that the 1.7K has actually reduced the balance and which ever way you add and subtract the figures it always comes out as added not subtracted ( that's how I see it, maybe missed something but know not what).

 

 

I would suggest making a Formal Complaint (get hold of a directors name) this will then have to be properly investigated and responded to within 56 days.

[batman1956]

It is already the subject of a formal complaint.

That is what finally produced the statements.

Do I need to mark my reply letter as a Formal Complaint and would you suggest posting it here first for opinions?

[ims21]

Before sending any further complaints about the PPI refund you need to look at that statement again.

 

The adjustment to the account for PPI is the £1200.98 + £2295.89 + £2397.81 and there is an odd interest adjustment of about £50.

 

Did you at any point receive a physical cheque payment from them for PPI? If so it should have been accompanied by a letter. Can you post up that letter please.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

It is already the subject of a formal complaint.

That is what finally produced the statements.

Do I need to mark my reply letter as a Formal Complaint and would you suggest posting it here first for opinions?

Yes use it as a follow up to the original complaint it should ensure that the specific matter is properly addressed.

I expect you will more advice here batman.

[batman1956]

Hi ims.

Yes there was a letter I will dig it out later and post it up.

From what I remember they took around £2400 to clear arrears and then sent us the balance of about £1780.

[ims21]

Hi ims.

 

From what I remember they took around £2400 to clear arrears and then sent us the balance of about £1780.

 

That explains the £1,780 entry on the account statement.

[ims21]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]52906[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]52907[/ATTACH]

 

And here is the letter. Hope this helps. And thank you both for your help.

 

Too small to read I'm afraid.

 

Can you PDF it and re-post please?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

This payment has it seems been added to the outstanding balance not reducing it??

[ims21]

This payment has it seems been added to the outstanding balance not reducing it??

 

Correct.

 

You need to look at the PPI refund methodology as a whole.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Correct.

 

You need to look at the PPI refund methodology as a whole.

So had batman not paid the cheque into this account he would have £1.7k ?

[batman1956]

Hope this works

[ims21]

Hope this works

 

Yes that's good...thank you.

 

Back in a bit....

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hope this works

I can't see why paying this into the account (was this a mistake?) has increased the balance OS. Am I missing some thing?

[ims21]

I can't see why paying this into the account (was this a mistake?) has increased the balance OS. Am I missing some thing?

 

Yes

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Yes

Very helpful Not!

[ims21]

I have said I will get back in a bit.

 

Please be patient.

[batman1956]

No problem ims.

[batman1956]

Could I ask another question?

Would the fact that they added interest before the first payment was actually due have any bearing at all. It would mean that the initial amount was in fact more than stated on the agreement.

[ims21]

Ok batman, here is the answer to the PPI part of the issue.

 

Two things to bear in mind.

 

First, where an account is still live, the future part of the account must be restructured to remove the PPI element from it so that no further PPI or contractual interest on the PPI is paid.

 

Secondly, where an account is in arrears, the lender is allowed to retain part of the settlement to clear those arrears.

 

Now, your offer letter sets out the various amounts which made up the total redress and the adjustment for the future party of the PPI. The breakdown is Total PPI Premium £3497.87 + PPI actually paid plus Contractual Interest £2,424.39 + 8% Simple Interest £607.94 + Additional Compensation for distress and inconvenience. This all totals to £6,730.20.

 

Now look at the statement which dealt with the PPI situation.

 

They have credited back the full amount of the PPI premium (£1201.98 + £2295.89 = £3497.87). This restructures the loan with the PPI element removed.

 

They have also credited back the full amount of the redress due (£2397.81 + £607.94 + £200 = £3205.75) There is a £26.58 difference between the figure stated in their letter and the actual adjustment carried out on the account but I can't immediately see the reason for this small difference. Now as has been said, they are not allowed to keep all of your redress, only enough to clear arrears.

 

Since they credited the full amount to the account they had to issue a payment to you for the amount that they were not allowed to keep. hence the issue of a cheque for £1780.67 and it is this cheque amount which shows on the loan account. That is the reason that the balance increases by £1780....because it was a payment made to you from the account, not a payment by you or the bank into the account.

 

I take it that you banked that cheque into a different account, maybe your current account.

 

So the way they have dealt with the PPI refund seems fine.

 

With regard to the question as to whether the loan is paid off, I think we would need to see all of statements from the start so that we can look at the behaviour of the account over the whole period.

 

You mention that interest was charged before the first payment was due. How long before the first payment was due? Sight of the statements would shed some more light on this aspect.