Black Horse calculations.

[ims21]

Hi Batman

 

I have come up with some workings on this and attached a spreadsheet for you to have a look at.

 

I have to say that my figures are considerably different from the ones being talked about by the bank.

 

I really think you need to get their analysis of what has happened on the account since the date on 2010 when the PPI redress brought the account back into line.

 

[ATTACH]51010[/ATTACH]

[batman1956]

Good morning ims and many thanks for this. Wow that is a massive difference.

Could you explain the starting balance on the calculations as it is different to our own calculation?

I will then be able to move forward with a letter.

[ims21]

Hi

 

Use this spreadsheet and simply pop the three items requested in the fields at the top.

 

LoanAnalysis.xls

 

After payment no. 70 you will see what the balance would have been less the " future interest. This is the figure I have used.

 

Loans like this normally run on the basis that the bank charges interest on an outstanding balance on a monthly cycle with the interest being calculated daily but being applied to the account monthly.

 

If you take the balance I have used and add the "future" interest you will come to the same balance which you did, i.e. 50 repayments of £173.50 still to be paid.

 

By using the balance without the "future" interest it allows the interest calculations to be done on the actual balance due at any point.

[batman1956]

Ok I think I understand that.

So in essence the total amount repayable on the original signed agreement (£20,820.00) which is made up of the amount borrowed plus interest is not really a true figure?

The interest is not added at inception but on a daily basis through the life of the account.

Now I have got something to work with which, without your help, I would never have been able to do. Thank you so much.

 

I will of course keep this thread updated.

[ims21]

The interest is not added at inception but on a daily basis through the life of the account.

 

That is 100% spot on.

 

The agreement shows the interest which would be payable IF the loan runs its natural course to conclusion.

[batman1956]

Thank you.

Their over £8,000 is pure fantasy. They never fail to amaze me, every time they phone (which they have been told in writing not to do) they make sure that they mention that the loan is secured.

[ims21]

This is why you need the full details of what they have done on the account.

 

A full and proper statement from start to finish would give us something to compare.

[batman1956]

I will try to get a full statement however I have asked for this several times and got nothing back.

They say that they will or even have sent it but it never happens

[ims21]

Have you ever lodged a formal complaint with the bank and headed it as such?

 

If not then I would do so because failure after that would leave you open to get fos to look at the matter.

[batman1956]

No. But if that is what you suggest I am happy to do so. Would I give all this information in the complaint

[ims21]

If it were me I would point out your numerous requests for a full and detailed account statement and that this has not yet been fulfilled. Point out that you have queries on the account and that by their failure to supply a detailed statement you are unable to resolve those queries.

 

Stop short of making any accusations of any wrongdoing in respect of their figures because, at this time, there is no evidence as to "other things" which may have gone on with the account.

 

You can point out that if they still fail to supply you with a full and detailed statement then you will quite happily lodge a complaint with fos.

[batman1956]

I will get on it later.

[batman1956]

Ok. I sent Black Horse a letter disputing the stated balance which once again they totally ignored.

Today we got another arrears letter with a massively infated balance.

On phoning them (I know) they insist that the balance after the PPI settlement was more. Even though they sent the letter to us detailing how much of the payment they had withheld to restore the account to up to date.

I ended up going around in circles for the best part of an hour and achieving nothing.

Help please.

Having paid more than the total amount due they still want over £8,500 more.

[batman1956]

Having totally ignored our letter Black Horse have now made what seems to be a very strange move.

 

We have continued to pay £200 per month (the due payment being £173.50).

 

This morning we are advised that they have sold the account to Idem Capital Securities limited.

 

They quote the balance outstanding as £8,405.52,

 

We are reasonably sure that by using their letter of January 2010 where they took any arrears from our PPI settlement and adding up what has been paid since the account is now paid in full.

 

Questions are, do I pay Idem or put the account into dispute?

What are Black Horse playing at?

 

Anyone?

[havinastella]

Did you send the 'Formal complaint'?

 

Have they acknowledged you have lodged a Formal complaint. You would normally get a letter from them saying they have 8 weeks to respond.

 

By your figures have you repaid the loan?

 

Until you get a full statement of account your hands are tied. And as they point out, this is secured. Now I do know BH really do litigate in their own name, so if they have 'sold' this, something smells fishy.

 

I have been to court against BH and beat them to a pulp so if this was me, I'd put the account into dispute.

 

Why would they sell a SECURED loan on?????????????

[batman1956]

Although Black Horse were fully aware of the disputed figures the account was not subject to a "formal complaint" By my figures and the spread sheet completed by ims we are now overpaid.

Something is definitely wrong. The problem is working out what it is.

So would you suggest writing to Idem and inform them that in our opinion the loan is paid in full enclosing our evidence or is there anything else I should do?

[havinastella]

You NEED to mark this as a 'Formal Complaint' as advised earlier in the thread.

 

Send the letter to BH marked as so, and a brief outline of the problem, amount borrowed, amount you have paid back, that you want a complete breakdown of the account and you dispute the amount owed.

 

Don't ramble and go on for page after page. I would send tracked/Signed for as this is a secured loan and you want proof the letter was delivered.

 

You could send them a request under CCA s77(1) - you are entitled to a copy of the ageement and a statement of account comprising (a) the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor;

(b) the total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the debtor but remains unpaid, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due; and

© the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date, or mode of determining the date, when each becomes due.

 

 

 

 

use these words in your request

[batman1956]

Thank you very much would you be kind enough to look over the following and if necessary make any amendments.

 

FORMAL COMPLAINT

Dear Sirs,

I respect of the above numbered account there has been a long running dispute about the balance owed.

On January 28th 2012 we received a letter from one of your compliance and risk executives (xxxxx xxxxxxx) which confirmed that all of the arrears on the account had been cleared from the refund of PPI which had been mis-sold by you.

In March of that same year you then claimed that this same account was around £1,300 in arrears, this as you can easily work out is not possible, as even if we had not made any payments since January of that year, which is not the case, only two payments totalling £347 would have been missed. This would seem to be the root of the problem.

At the inception of this loan in April 2004 the agreement states:

Amount of Credit £12,000

Interest rate per month 1.018% APR 12.9%

Monthly Repayments £173.50

Total charge for credit £8,820.00

Total amount payable £20,820.00.

 

Up to 11th May 2014, taking it that the account was fully paid up to date, as confirmed by you in the letter mentioned above, and adding the payments since, we have paid in total £20,792.50.

A further 2 payments of £200 have been made since this date.

I am now sending you a request under CCA s77(1) – for a copy of the agreement.

I also require a statement of account comprising

(a) The total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor;

(b) The total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the debtor but remains unpaid, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due; and

© The total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date, or mode of determining the date, when each becomes due.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

Hi. Would anyone please look over the letter.

We are out of our minds with worry.

 

Sorry to pester but if this letter covers everything I would like to get it sent.

Apologies for keeping asking.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Sorry to pester but if this letter covers everything I would like to get it sent.

Apologies for keeping asking.

 

 

The letter is fine, use signed for post, check delivery. a formal complaint allows 56 days from the date received for full investigation and response.

[batman1956]

Thank you. Most appreciated.

[batman1956]

I wondered why it had gone to IDEM and not SCM. Perhaps this explains why.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2680068/Fury-banks-send-Wonga-style-legal-threats-customers-MPs-condemn-dishonest-distressing-tactic.html

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I wondered why it had gone to IDEM and not SCM. Perhaps this explains why.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2680068/Fury-banks-send-Wonga-style-legal-threats-customers-MPs-condemn-dishonest-distressing-tactic.html

 

 

A wonderful discovery (NOT) we have know about the in house collectors for years, perhaps the journalist (s) behind this should take a look at CAG!

[batman1956]

Perhaps they should. I wonder if the same sanctions etc. will be applied as they were for Wonga?

[batman1956]

Had a letter back today just asking for the £1 fee for the paperwork.

[batman1956]

We have received back what we assume is their response.

 

The first thing which is obvious is that there were interest charges added to the account BEFORE the first payment was even due.

 

Then during the period of the PPI refund in 2010 there is a mysterious sum of almost £1,800 added to the balance

 

along with this there are 3 payments of £200 which are showing on the statement which we have made since the mysterious sell off to IDEM which then show as a zero balance ????

 

In other words they have not appeared as a credit after the sell off which is stated as a write off on the statements.

 

I will go through the statements and total up the total amount paid but I an confused about where this is going.

 

Just a footnote IDEM have not had any payments yet, should I write to them explaining what is going on?

 

Please could someone look at this and give me some advice.

 

I have added up all of the figures on the agreements It would appear that in total the amount paid on this account is £25,520.89. the amount due was £20,820.00

 

However there is some figures from the time of the PPi settlement which are very confusing.

Payments in and out of the account which do not make any sense.

This would appear to have caused the discrepancy.

 

The problem now as far as I can see is that IDEM now hold a secured loan (mortgage) on our house and Black Horse appear to have washed their hands of the debt which figures apparently show is overpaid.

 

How do I now sort this out?