The Co-operative bank online Fraud

[andrew12334]

Hello forum members,

 

I am new to the forum, just want some advice and tips regarding fraud that took place on my cooperative bank account.

 

Some how my cooperative bank account online banking details got compromised,

don't know how and when it got compromised left me clueless, as I hardly use my cooperative account as its only for savings.

 

On February 2014 some one managed to get access to my cooperative account online banking,

and cleared my account out totaling off £20,000.

 

I work 6 days a week busy with work life as I don't check my account on regular basis,

 

a week after my account was cleared out I received letter from Co op Bank saying I have insufficient funds in my account

for online transfer that was requested.

 

After that I was confused thinking what on earth is going on,

I tried to log on to my cooperative online banking

it did not allow me to log on saying online suspended,

 

I managed to contact the bank saying what is going on

 

I have received letters saying I have insufficient funds on my account for a online payment.

The adviser on the phone read out 5 unauthorized transaction online transfer paid out totaling of £20,000.

 

I was left shocked and terrified,

 

the adviser told me someone would call me back within 48 hours regarding the unauthorized transactions.

 

I did receive a call from the security department saying I would need to provide them with crime reference number

in order for them to investigate the matter and take it further.

 

After that have I reported it to actionfraud and managed to get crime reference number, and gave it to the bank

 

I called up the bank after few days for an update

 

they told me my case has been passed on to someone on actionfraud which they will contact me within week.

 

Week passes by

 

I call the bank again trying to find out what is going on

 

they don't give me much info and tell me its not in their hand no more police actionfraud is dealing with it.

 

I have contacted the Financial Ombudsman service regarding this

they have raised an complaint to the customer relation department regarding the matter,

 

I then receive a letter from the customer relations complaints saying

 

"Thank you for your complaint which was received,

your concerns will be investigated by a case handler in this department

and the outcome will be sent to you in writing"

 

I wait another 2 weeks

 

I call the bank again for an update,

still the same thing its not in our hands no more police actionfraud is dealing with it,

 

I get so frustrated and angry I started to yell at the adviser on the phone.

 

I wait another 2 weeks receive letter from the customer relations complaints department saying

 

"Further to our earlier letter acknowledging your complaint,

I am writing to let you know that we are unfortunately not in a position to provide you with response to the matters you have raised.

 

We will be in a position to reply fully to your complaint shortly.

 

We will contact you again as soon as possible and in any event within the next four weeks.

 

This has got me even more angry and frustrated by the bank leaving me clueless.

 

Its been over 2 months now still on going,

I feel as if nothing is being done about it.

 

Anyone can advice me here will be grateful,

 

I am disgusted by the behavior of the bank.

 

Thank you.

[BankFodder]

If you look at the FCA guide - know your rights - previously the FSA guide, you will see that the banks have a duty to refund all money which has been taken from your account fraudulently. The bank is not entitled to delay even for an investigation or in order to complete any formalities.

 

The banks often ignore this and your bank is presently breaking the rules - which is not surprising because we now understand that the Coop bank is just as incompetent and corrupt as the others.

 

You should do everything in writing and demand that a complaint is made to the Ombudsman. However, an FOS complaint takes an awful long time and you real avenue for action is to start considering a county court claim under BCOBS

[andrew12334]

Thank you bankfodder,

 

So what do you reckon is going on then?? the banks treating me like crap.

 

I have did my best so far, do you know how long the bank can take up to? and what are they really doing bout it? are they even doing anything bout it? because after I gave the crime reference number the bank said I will get response within week, now it has delayed up to 2 months now. I'm left clueless here? Any idea how or any timescale that these kinda situation get solved by?

 

 

Action fraud & Financial ombudsman service are so unreliable. Actionfraud actually don't do nothing about it, why I'm I left in the dark without an answer?

[BankFodder]

Of course they are treating you like crap. You are crap. All bank customers are crap. Especially now as there is a risk that the bank might have to pay you out some money, you are even more crap.

Especially now that the bank may have made an error or that it may have to face up to its responsibilities - you are crap and the bank will be tight lipped and reluctant to let you have any information or to have any meaningful contact with you.

Do everything in writing and record all calls. Take the recording advice VERY seriously.

 

Do you have copies of the fraudulent transaction? You need to get copies of all paperwork - statements and any other related information.

 

Read up BCOBS and also about bringing small claims in the county court.

 

Don't trust the bank to keep in contact with you or to keep promises to call you back. You will have to make the running all the way.

[Klandestine]

For the majority, a court claim probably isn't the most appropriate route to go down at the moment - you may aswell exhaust any other possible avenues.

 

The way they have acted may well be in flout of regulations OR they may have reason to believe that you did authorise the disputed transactions or you were negligent (e.g. not following your account terms & conditions, not keeping PIN numbers and safe etc.). We don't know what they are thinking at the moment so I would send them a letter reminding them of their obligations (i.e. the Payment Services Regulations) - feel free to ask for help creating a draft of this.

 

Do you know anything more about the unauthorised transactions. Were they definitely online transfers? Does the transaction description on your statement give you any hints as to where the money was transferred to?

 

You should ... demand that a complaint is made to the Ombudsman.

 

You can't make a demand to a bank that a complaint is made to the FOS.

You have to complain to the bank first and wait for a final response within 8 weeks. Only then can YOU ask the FOS to look at the complaint.

[andrew12334]

Hello klandestine and thank you,

 

No I did not authorize any of the 5 unauthorized transactions that took place on my account, and yes they were online transfers made to some one that I don't have clue what so ever who the person is. I haven't acted like anything or was nor negligent what so ever, when this fraud took place I was at work from what I can recall, I work 6 days a week as I mentioned earlier. And I barley use the account its me savings only.

 

So I don't have clue to what is going on to be honest

[Klandestine]

It does seem to be a bit of a mystery. Supposedly most fraud is committed by those closest to us if that gives any possible indications?

 

Do you have a card reader to use with internet banking?

Do you know when and where you last used internet banking?

 

I don't know precisely which type of account you have but there should be a clause like this in the terms and conditions:

"Provided you have notified us as required by condition xx and we cannot show that the payment transaction was authorised we will immediately refund the amount of the payment transaction to you and, if applicable, restore the account to the state it would have been in had the unauthorised payment transaction not taken place."

 

So you can have a go at reciting that to the bank aswell to see if that gets them to sort out the situation.

[andrew12334]

I last used my online banking on January 2014 just to check my online statement which I remember, from what I can remember I was never required a card reader when ever I made online payment to someone in past, I only hold savings account with the bank never needed a card reader for it.

[BankFodder]

 

 

You can't make a demand to a bank that a complaint is made to the FOS.

You have to complain to the bank first and wait for a final response within 8 weeks. Only then can YOU ask the FOS to look at the complaint.

You are right. I got carried away with my indignation. However I think that using a demanding tone is the correct approach because I don't think that it is all helpful to allow the impression that you are going to be at all acquiescent in this.

 

 

 

I think that court claims are very appropriate for a great many cases - but of course the bank customers themselves may feel that this is a step too far. In fact BCOBS gives enormous leverage to bank customers and yet these regulations are almost completely unused - and of course, they are never referred to be the banks, who would rather they didn't exist.

We have one instance of BCOBS being used on this forum but our user MadPriest when he sued Santander over their withholding of funds which they said were in a dormant account - despite his instructions. That produced a judgment and a final payment in the region of £4k including various costs. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?373594-Bounced-Cheque-Cause-for-Action-for-Damages-**-VICTORY-IS-MINE-**

 

andrew12334 's case is far more serious as this involves considerably more money and unlike the case of Madpriest which only involved negligence, this seems to involve a deliberate flouting of FCA rules.

 

Of course the FOS route is a ready-made risk-free, free-of-charge route and it is the one which is preferred by the bank - but that is precisely because it places very little pressure on the bank to hurry up. It is completely opaque as you have no idea what is happening, what the bank is saying or what correspondence is passing between them. Also, it allows the bank to throw in the towel at a time of its own choosing in order to avoid having the statistic of having a complaint against them upheld. If you aren't being inconvenienced by the lack of access to your money then choose the FOS route - but it can take up to two years - whether they say on the FOS site. You can certainly reckon on a year with very little feedback.

 

If the lack of money is causing you problems then I'm afraid that the only thing which is likely to concentrate the minds of the bank is a County Court claim under BCOBS - which doesn't have to be a claim for the full amount - which would take you well outside a small claim. You would only seek to sue for a very modest figure to compensate you for some immediate inconvenience. This would get you a judgment under BCOBS and would probably move the bank to take better notice of their responsibilities.

 

Whether the fraud was committed by someone near you or someone that you know, is not relevant. The bank is bound by the same rules - so long as you are not implicated - but as I have said, they are bound to return your money immediately and deal with fraud issues afterwards - unless, of course, they already have evidence of your involvement or some negligence by you.

 

 

 

You won't be able to run an FOS complaint and a court claim together. However, if you decided to go down the court route, I would try bringing an additional complaint to the FOS anyway targeted at the bank's disobedience of the rules. The bank would probably object on the basis that it was the same issue as your action in the County Court - but you could argue that they were different matters as the FOS complaint involved a more general principle. At the very least it would engage the bank more fully. At the end, the bank wants an easy life and this tends to mean that you should shut up and let them get on with it. I don't think that this is the best route for you.

 

As suggested above - point out to them what their responsibilities are. Of course, as banking professionals, they should be fully aware already. Print out a copy of the FCA rules and send them a copy as part of your written complaint.

After that, you will have to decide what is the best course of action for you.

[Klandestine]

The court service acknowledges the going to court should be a last resort. If you don't try to reach an agreement with the possible defendant before any court action (at the very least utilising the banks complaints process, possibly the FOS too given that banks have to inform you about the Ombudsman) then your case won't be taken seriously.

 

I personally wouldn't be considering any court action just yet. I would stick with the advice to send a letter - but it's up to andrew12334 to decide what to do.

 

And it potentially is relevant whether the fraud was committed by someone near you or somebody that you know:

• You could have been using a library computer and forgotten to logout - this could be considered negligent and the bank may not be liable for the loss.
  
• You may have let your other half know your internet banking password and they stole the money - again this would be negligent and the bank wouldn't be liable.
  

[BankFodder]

The court service acknowledges the going to court should be a last resort. If you don't try to reach an agreement with the possible defendant before any court action (at the very least utilising the banks complaints process, possibly the FOS too given that banks have to inform you about the Ombudsman) then your case won't be taken seriously.

 

i'm using a phone so can't reply fully.

However this statement is completely wrong. It would be quite improper for a judge to make a judgement based on this.

These considerations might legitimately influence a decision on costs - but that's about it.

[Klandestine]

i'm using a phone so can't reply fully.

However this statement is completely wrong. It would be quite improper for a judge to make a judgement based on this.

It might influence a decision on costs.

 

Quite right. I wasn't referring to the judgement but I don't think I phrased that in the way I intended to.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Klandestine

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?422355-Coop-bank-holding-funds-in-account-soo-stressfull&p=4515092&viewfull=1#post4515092

 

andrew, is this the same thread ?

[rebel11]

To be honest, once the first fraudulent transaction went through, the alarm bells should have rung at the Co-op. That transaction should have been compared to your regular spending habit's, they have activity reports that flag up unusual transactions. Even more so with the 2nd,3rd,4th and 5th.

[Klandestine]

To be honest, once the first fraudulent transaction went through, the alarm bells should have rung at the Co-op. That transaction should have been compared to your regular spending habit's, they have activity reports that flag up unusual transactions. Even more so with the 2nd,3rd,4th and 5th.

 

It appears as though alarm bells did ring though. The 5 transactions were probably made in quick succession but it looks like they suspended the OP's internet banking after becoming aware of this. I would have expected a phone call from them though (maybe they did try but they don't have an up-to-date contact number?).

[BankFodder]

Andrew would you be prepared to talk to the press?

There may be a chance of some media interest