Refinanced loan with Black Horse

[robcat35]

Hi All

 

I would be very grateful if anybody can advice me what to do next with my PPI claim.

 

I received a letter from Black Horse some weeks ago saying I could be owed PPI from a loan for a car. I filled the form out and noticed that the term of the loan was incorrect. I checked my own records, which as this was from 2003 was not much, and found a copy of a credit report from 2010 which showed a loan starting in oct 2003 running until apr 2006 and then been replaced with a loan running from apr 2006 running until Nov 2011.

 

I informed Black Horse of this on the claim form.

 

They have recently sent a reply saying I am entitled to a refund on the second loan but not on the first. When I contacted their helpline about this they explained that the initial loan had been paid off and replaced with the second, as they termed it Refinanced.

This was nothing to do with myself Black Horse just did this. In fact I cannot remember this happening.

 

My question is did they refinace it to include PPI or did both loans include PPI but as the other is older they don't have any paperwork so they know they don't have to pay out? I have both policy numbers but no paperwork.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

Rob

[ims21]

Time for a SAR to them to get all of the data they hold on you.

 

I don't see how they could give you a new refinancing loan without your knowledge or agreement to this so you need to find out what went on.

 

Template for SAR is in the CAG library. Make sure you add a line that says it is to include copies of all and any agreements you have had with them.

 

There is a £10 statutory fee for SAR and they will have 40 days to comply.

[robcat35]

Thanks ims21 i'll do that now

[RedVixen]

I wouldn't give up on the first loan - I had a string of refinanced loans (i.e. all but the last settled by the next) and went after Lloyds for all of them. It makes things more complicated for them as they have to work out what the new (lower) original amount on a refinance loan should have been if the previous one had not had PPI - ie if PPI was mis-sold you effectively overpaid up until the point that the loan was settled - not sure how much sense that makes but for me it added a lot to the sum I received as the overpayments had to be rolled into several following loans and for me in the end the last one no longer existed - Lloyds had to pay me to settle it.

[robcat35]

Thanks for the reply RedVixen.

 

What I've done so far is sar Black Horse as per ims21's advice. I have also written to Vicky Watts at Black Horse advicing her I do not accept their offer as final settlement of both accounts. I did mention in the letter that if I had PPI on the refinanced loan I surely had it on the original loan. I don't know if logic is anything these people use when determining these things but we will see.

 

Cheers for all your help so far and I will post as soon as I hear something

 

Rob

[ims21]

Bear in mind that it doesn't necessarily follow that loan 1 had PPI just because loan 2 had PPI on it.

 

That is the purpose of the SAR, to find out exactly what went on with these things.

[robcat35]

Hi All

 

I have just received a reply to my SAR request from Black Horse. Not that much to read so that should help.

 

They have sent a copy of the original agreement which shows PPI added on to the original loan at a total cost of £1660.32 which includes the charge for credit.

 

How do I play this now? We obviously were unaware of the PPI or I would have claimed earlier and at the time we took out the loan I was self employed.

 

Is my best bet to write back to Black Horse telling them I was self employed or go down the road we were unaware we had it.

 

Your input will be very much appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[ims21]

So just to confirm, you now have evidence that there was PPI on both of these loans, yes?

[robcat35]

yes. I have the original loan agreement showing PPI. The refinanced loan doesnt matter as they have already agreed to pay on that one.

[ims21]

Ok thanks.

 

Forgot to ask earlier....have they given any reasons why they are not paying out on the first one or has it just not been considered by them at all at this point?

[robcat35]

Yes its been considered and their response is basically 'after considering the evidence and documentation available to us, we have not found any evidence that your PPI was mis-sold'.

 

i believe thats why they had to send a copy of the original agreement or else what evidence could they have considered.

[ims21]

Ok what I would do is challenge them on this point then.

 

Reading their excuse it seems pretty flimsy to me. Ask them to give precise details as to why they do not believe the first policy was mis-sold and tell them again that you were self employed at the time and that the PPI policy would have been useless to you.

 

Tell them that you are quit prepared to have fos have a look at this and you will be referring it on should they not reconsider their position.

 

If you have had a final decision from them then bear in mind that you have six months from that decision to lodge a complaint with fos so keep and eye n your time line as far as that is concerned.

 

A successful claim on the first loan will also impact on the amount of redress for the second one since it was a refinance of an earlier loan.

[robcat35]

Thanks for that. I'll have a letter to them by the morning.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[robcat35]

Hi All

 

Just spoken to the FOS as Black Horse have rejected my claim again and the FOS have told me that Black Horse were unregulated between 2003 and 2005 and therfore they cannot investigate my complaint.

 

Is this the end of the road?

 

cheers

 

Rob

[ims21]

Probably the FLA that you need....

 

http://www.fla.org.uk/consumer

[robcat35]

Thanks IMS

 

Just checking on their website but Black Horse are not a company that subscribe or will they be under Lloyds TSB?

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[ims21]

Ok I'll do some more digging.

 

By the way, how was that first agreement taken out?

 

What reasons did they give for not upholding the complaint on that first loan?

[robcat35]

Hi IMS

 

The agreement was taken out with the loan. I have a copy of the original agreement showing the £6k loan with a separate section showing an additional £1171.28 for a payment protection plan.

 

They have not responded to my second request for not upholding my claim. I called them today, and after a conversation with a call center worker, I was told they had tried to contact me by phone on several occasions but I had not answered they now consider the matter closed and if I wished to pursue it further I should contact the FOS.

 

I may have missed calls from them but I do not have any answer phone messages.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[ims21]

What I meant was how was the loan agreement taken out?...in a branch, at a dealership or other?

 

Nice of them to tell you to go to fos if they were not under fos jurisdiction at the time.

 

I would write and tell them that you require the reasons why they have not upheld the complaint on the first loan.

 

You might also get in touch with fos and tell them to go for the underwriter which was probably Lloyds Insurance Services who I am sure were regulated in those days.

[robcat35]

Hi

 

Just to let you know I've written Black Horse again demanding a reply to my original letter as to why my claim has been rejected.I have asked not to call me but to reply in writing.

 

Once I get something I'll take it from there.

 

Cheers

[robcat35]

Still no reply from Black Horse as to why they have rejected my claim.

 

I have also read through the terms and conditions with the original application form and it states 'If you take out creditor insurance with this agreement, any insurance premiums we collect from you will be held by us as an agent of LLoyds TSB Insurance services Ltd'. Does this mean I can go after LLoyds directly via FOS?

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[ims21]

You need to find out whether their insurance arm came under fos jurisdiction at the time you took that first loan.

 

If they were then fos should be able to help you with loan 1.

[robcat35]

Hi all

 

FOS have confirmed Lloyds TSB Ins services were under their jurisdiction in 2003 and have advised me to pursue my claim against them.

 

I will send a letter today and see what happens.