MKDP claimform HSBC Credit Card ' debt' - case off the rails - help!

[outsider19]

Hi all, I have been attempting to progress my case based on surfaceagent20's stickies,

but it has come off the rails and now I need help!

 

1. On 6th January (as dated on the form) I was sent a claim form from MKDP

 

'The claimant claims the sum of [less than 3k]

being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant under a regulated agreement originally between the Defendant and HSBC bank plc.

 

The defendents account number was [xxx]

and was assigned to the Claimant on 26/03/2013,

 

notice of this has been provided to the defendant.

 

The Defendant has failed to make payments in accordance with the terms of the agreement

and a default notice has been served pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Claimant claims the sum of [] and costs.

 

The Claimant has complied, as far as is necessary, with the pre-action conduct practice direction.'

 

I responded with a CPR 31.14 notice on 20/1 by special delivery and gave the notice of service online.

 

Having had no reply

 

I responded with an N244 request for an extension for filing a defence

and a draft order to have the documents produced with 14 days dated 5/2

and posted the next day by recorded mail.

This was as per surfaceagents template.

 

I recieved a letter form MKDP on the 7th Feb stating

 

that they are unable to comply,

 

are seeking the documents and this could take 8 weeks,

 

with a confirmation that no action would be taken during this time.

 

On friday 20th I received a general directions order dated 19th feb

 

It is ordered that :

The application is REFUSED.

The time for the Defendant to file a defence is extended to 21 days from the date of this order.

 

Reasons:

 

1. The particulars of the claim state that the Claimant has complied with the pre action protocol.

The Defendant appears not to have requested further information at that time.

 

2.Paragraph 7.3 of PD16 does not apply when the claim form is issued online.

 

3. There is no reason why the Defendant cannot file and serve a defence indicating whether he admits or denies

entering into the agreement pleaded and whether he admits or denies the amounts claimed.

 

 

This seems outrageous!

 

What do i do now???

[mjt2013]

Why is it outrageous?

 

Did you enter into the agreement?

 

Do you owe the money?

 

You can file a defence just putting the creditor to proof if you like

 

but there's no reason why you can't file a defence now as you don't need disclosure yet.

[citizenB]

Unfortunately, outsider.. you have been reading out of date information. You should have used the templates from the CAG library which is up todate.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?403-CAG-Library

[steampowered]

The court system is set-up around the idea that you file a Defence first, and then disclosure of documents comes later. This doesn't quite fit with what they are required to do under CPR 31.14 but unfortunately is generally how things work.

[outsider19]

I have to file a defense tomorrow. Should I go for an embarrassed defence.

[dx100uk]

what type of account is this

 

NO!!

never file the embarrassed defence

that's old hat.

 

dx

[steampowered]

You need to do your best to deny/admit the allegations in the Particulars of Claim and properly explain why you feel the money is not owed. There are several examples on CAG if you search around through the forums. Its impossible for us to be specific without more information.

 

Feel free to post up your draft but there isn't much time left. The most important thing is to file it on time.

[outsider19]

Sorry for the short timescale and lack of detail. Some points...

 

1. If I signed a credit agreement it would have been 15 years ago and I have no way of knowing it had the prescribed terms attached

 

2. I do not recall a letter of assigment so do not recognise the claimant as a party to the agreement

 

3. It was a credit card

This seems a bit tenuous now, I was rather more bullish at the start. I realise I should have posted a thread rather than rely on reading stickies.

 

Can anyone post a link to similar defences?

[NewToTheFight]

Post the Particulars of claim, typed verbatim

[theoldrouge]

have you at anytime sent a cca request?

[outsider19]

The particulars are typed verbatim above.

 

No I have not sent a cca??? What is it

[theoldrouge]

cca request for a true copy of the original agreement, get one sent today, in addition to your defence, to the claimant under s78 for credit card, until they supply a compliant response s78(6) will apply

[NewToTheFight]

you must answer the claim, break it down into parts.

 

'The claimant claims the sum of [less than 3k]

being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant

under a regulated agreement originally between the Defendant and HSBC bank plc

 

Did you sign an agreement with HSBC in respect of this account?,

was it compliant?

 

if not you have to say so

 

such as

The defendant denies having signed a credit agreement with HSBC Bank

or

The defendant neither confirms nor denies having signed a compliant credit agreement with HSBC Bank

and puts the Claimant to strict proof such an agreement was ever signed.

 

or The defendant confirms he signed an application form with HSBC Bank

but neither confirms nor denies such an application form

contained the prescribed terms and was therefore capable of becoming a compliant executed agreement.

 

If the Claim is going to be successful you will have had to receive

 

a compliant default notice,

termination notice and

notice of assignment

 

which comply with the CCA and Law Of Property Act.

 

Have you received any of these documents?

 

You will be defeated if you admit the claim

 

You must get up to speed with the current legislation

 

If you did sign an agreement were the then current terms and conditions present when you signed it?

 

Always adhere to the courts timetables and instructions

 

In lay mans terms what is your defence?

[NewToTheFight]

Also send SAR and S78 requests to HSBC today

[NewToTheFight]

When was the last payment made to the account?

[theoldrouge]

Also send SAR and S78 requests to HSBC today

s78 request to claimant as assignee not hsbc

[outsider19]

Thanks everyone. ..lots to do this evening

 

the claim form was like a bolt from the blue. I dont recall an assignment notice or any letter before action...

[outsider19]

I am going to file the following defense

 

1. Paragraph 1 is neither admitted or denied with regards to the defendant entering into an agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim (‘the Agreement’) the Claimant has yet to disclose any such agreement.

 

2. Paragraph 1 is denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant. The Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach as requested by CPR 31. 14 by Special Delivery on February 21st 2014 and received by The Claimant February 22nd 2014. The defendant has received a reply to the request stating that the Claimant will require up to 8 weeks to comply with the request and the Claimant will not pursue further action during this period. The Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

3. As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

4. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

5. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[outsider19]

Sorry for the rush on this...These things always come at the worst times, serious marital issues regarding the extra-marital conduct of my other half were uncovered in the middle of this!

[outsider19]

Regarding the last payment to the account, I have been unable to ascertain my payment times from my own records. I presume I should contact HSBC and ask them for this information

[outsider19]

I have put the incorrect dates above...I mean 21st January etc. I have a genuine problem with dates so I double checked!

[dx100uk]

you might find Noddle has payment info

 

see below

 

dx

[outsider19]

Thanks dx...on it

[outsider19]

Noddle does not go back far enough to show any payments, but interestingly it shows a the default being after MKDP claim assignment

[citizenB]

Regarding the last payment to the account, I have been unable to ascertain my payment times from my own records. I presume I should contact HSBC and ask them for this information

 

Yes, If this were me, I would telephone HSBC and just ask the question - please confirm the last payment made on this account.