@britishgashelp Chased for energy used AFTER we moved out...

[garmcqui]

Hi all, our 3yr tenancy officially ended on 7/8/2013, but we moved out (and had our check out done) on 25/7/2013, so slightly early. The check out clerk took the final meter readings, gave us a copy and forwarded the report on to the letting agents.

 

Before leaving, I made sure the central heating was switched off (at the wall) and that everything electrical was turned off (fridge/freezer etc had all been professiionally cleaned so was switched off). I even turned the power off at the fusebox in the flat. I then contacted British Gas, gave them the final meter readings and paid the final bill.

 

British Gas have our forwarding details but have never been in touch with us about anything more tpo do with the old flat. However, 7 months later, we have received correspondance from a debt recovery company threatening court action over a £22 gas/elec bill for the period 26/7/13 - 7/8/13. Apparently our old letting agent gave them our details.

 

I know the landlord/letting agent accessed the flat between the 26/7 and 7/8 because they took pictures etc and sent them to us trying to (fraudulently) claim there was damage that was our fault. We suspected at the time that they were moving people in before out tenancy officially ended, as the flat was advertised as being available from 1st August, and disappeared off the market quickly.

 

So I have 2 questions:

 

1. How can £22 of gas/electricity have been used in a "supposedly" empty property in 2 weeks? This is more than half of what we used in a month when we lived there!

 

2. If we have proof of the meter readings the day we had the check out done, are we still liable for energy used after this?

 

It's not the money, it's purely the principle of the matter, especially as the LA/Landlord tried to fraudently keep part of our deposit.

 

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

Gareth

[dx100uk]

you are not liable

 

whos the spoofing DCA?

 

dx

[Bazooka Boo]

BG will sell their gran if it means they can buy some more biscuits! Chancers!

[topcat1802]

Last time I checked even to make a claim in small claims court costs more than £22,

 

which means to pursue you to court is going to cost more money than they can recover from you,

 

and since the case would probably be thrown out they will make a loss in pursuing you through the court anyway!

[garmcqui]

Thanks for the replies. The DCA is LCS.

 

I've received this from the letting agent:

 

Thank you for your email.

 

Please note tenants are responsible for all bills up to the expiry date of the signed tenancy agreement. Please refer to section 2.1 and 2.5 of the signed tenancy agreement. The date of your expired tenancy agreement is 7th August 2013. You are responsible for payments up to then.

 

To which I replied:

 

In my mind, our tenancy ended when we had the check out done, handed back the keys and officially LEFT the building.

 

The checkout clerk (who is acting on behalf of the agent) by taking the meter reading, confims that we were no longer liable for the utilities after the point the clerk took the readings (as well as giving the keys back with the blessing of the agent).

 

In any event, there is NO WAY that the electricity and gas meter readings could have increased by such an amount in two weeks unless someone (Landlord, agents etc) had entered the property and made use of the utilities, whether for inspection, redocoration or otherwise. In fact, there is no doubt that the landlord (or representatives of the landlord) entered the property after 25th July, as you sent us photos of "damage" to the light switch, "broken" lights etc. Who is to say that they didn't switch something back on (the central heating system, perhaps) or forget to turn off a light after a viewing? With such a large amount used, someone could even have been living there (after all, the flat was advertised online as available from August 1st, a full week before our tenancy officially ended).

 

We are not responsible for utilities USED after we moved out. A standing charge I can maybe agree to, but not energy USED by someone else.

 

I haven't had any further reply yet.

 

However, I emailed LCS to tell them that I was refusing the debt and that they were to refer it back to their clients. I received a phone call from them this evening stating that even though the check out report clearly shows we moved out on 25th July, they cannot accept it as it isn't signed - but the report was typed up days after we left, how can we have signed it? We signed the handwritten report the clerk compiled on the day, but not the digital PDF version with photos etc.

 

They said that it is our responsibility to speak to the letting agent and get a written statement saying that our tenancy ended on 25th July - which the letting agent will never do as they are the ones who have put LCS onto us.

 

So it ended with me again telling LCS that I was refusing the debt, and they told me that was fine, but that action will continue on the account as our tenancy agreement states we were responsible up to the 7th August.

 

Any help appreciated! I really don't want to end up with a CCJ or something stupid. But as a matter of principle, I won't just roll over and be bullied by these corporations.

 

Thanks,

Gareth

[Bazooka Boo]

You will most certainly NOT EVER end up with a CCJ for the piddly amount of £22!! Who the hell put that idea in your head?

 

IGNORE them, they have to prove you owe this debt, NOT the other way round.

It makes absolutely sweet fanny adams difference if the report is signed or not. They are trying their tiny luck.

 

When they ring in future just laugh and hang up, DO NOT discuss this over the phone with them.

You should NEVER discuss financial matters over the phone, unless you are able to record the conversation.

 

This is the LL responsibility, NOT yours, if they want their piddly 22 quid, then they can go after him.

[SuperVillain]

Agree with the above, it's for them to prove not you so stick to your guns on this one.

[nottslad]

If they do come back, refer them to Section 6 of The Utilities Act 2000. This states that where a premises are unoccupied the landlord is responsible for the supply. As you have proof of when you moved out that enacted a surrender of your lease, therefore the covenants of the lease are invalid and you were no longer responsible for the property.

 

As mentioned above they can't do anything about £22 anyway, but it would be worth going back to them with this if they chase you

[Echoblack]

So I used to work for BG, and in my experience this type of complaint was relatively common... usually without the complication of the debt collectors, but it's still possible to get this resolved.

 

First off, as has already been noted, your are not responsible for gas and electricity used at the property after your tenancy ended (As dated on your tenancy agreement). 'Empty' properties can and sometimes do 'use' gas and electricity, but that's not your problem so I won't go into a big list of the potential scenarios that can cause that to happen. The two most likely causes for your issue are as follows...

 

Number one, and the least likely. I mention it first as this is something you should double check before proceeding so please don't be offended. What you thought was your final bill, was not in fact your final bill. This happens more often than you'd think. Check the end date and the meter readings on your bill match the end date of your tenancy and the MR's you confirmed with your letting agent. Since this is the least likely scenario I won't go into the reasons as to how and why this can happen. Furthermore even if this is the case it sounds like BG have been remiss in chasing up the debt so you've got some negotiating power with them, especially if they've been sending follow up bills and demands to the wrong address.

 

Number Two, and the most likely. Your final meter read has been changed after the fact. Most common cause the landlord/letting agent, and or the new tenants screwing you. In my admittedly skewed experience some landlords and letting agencies sometimes try and offload utilities used by an empty property on to the new or old tenants. This usually occurs when the 'to the occupier' bill for the interim period between tenants turns up. This can be further exasperated if the new tenants have not being particularly diligent in contacting their supplier to provide their correct start meter reads and create their new account. Either way, what has most likely occurred is one of these parties has contacted BG and given them new 'correct' end meter readings for your account, and in good faith some BG staff member has kindly adjusted them and sent you out your new 'correct' final bill.

 

So what to do? Call BG. Call the homemove team (they open and close accounts) you can get that departments number off the BG website. Confirm that the final reads on your account match the reads you confirmed with your letting agent (this is why in number one I insist you check the reads). If the reads don't match explain the situation and ask BG to change them back. To do this BG will have to recall the debt back from the DCA. They can do this (the agent on the phone might not want to, the procedure is a pain in the arse, if they say they have to transfer you insist on a warm transfer to ensure whoever you get passed to can do the procedure so you don't get bounced around departments) I can't remember the time scale off the top of my head for a recall, but it's not instantaneous, two working days springs to mind but... Anyway you'll want (even if the agent doesn't suggest it's necessary) to arrange a callback from the agent once the debt has been recalled to confirm the readings have been updated, and the correct final bill. Before ending the call get them to read out to you what notes they are leaving on your account. If they miss the callback and you end up dealing with another staff member you know what information they have to work with.

 

The agent might want proof of your meter reads. Hopefully you have some. If you do (a countersigned document from your letting agent is good, a gps tagged, time and date stamped photo of the meters on your smart phone is brilliant) get it on you computer before you call, this way you can offer to send it to the staff members personnel email whilst on the phone so they can confirm they have received it. Make sure they mention whatever proof they have seen in their notes on the account. This should put a nice big note on the account preventing the landlord getting the readings changed back again. Also if they've been sending your bills to the wrong place suggest that reparations might be in order, you never know you might be able to blag a free kettle or electricity monitor out of the situation

 

If you don't have proof of your reads... This could be a bit trickier. The agent you're speaking to might refuse to recall the debt as it's your word vs the landlord and its not BG's job to arbitrate a civil dispute, which is what this becomes if you and the landlord can't agree upon the readings. You have to pay BG, then reclaim the money from your landlord. If this is the case I would suggest getting them to check the billing history and confirm where they have been sending the adjusted bills to. If they've been sending them to the wrong address then I'd use that as leverage to get them to recall the debt and clear any potential negative marks on my credit record in exchange for settling the bill. I 'd also go out of my way to tell everyone I know what a bunch of rip off gits the landlord/letting agency are, and never use them again.

 

All of the above is my (somewhat jaded) opinion. Do not take anything I've written as legal advice, if you need that seek it from a trained professional. There are other potential scenarios which could have caused your issue, what I have presented above is what I consider to be the two most likely. I haven't worked for the company in almost 2 full years and procedures may have changed since I was there. Never the less I maintain talking directly to BG is your best bet at getting a good resolution on this issue. You may be very angry at BG as a company (and with good reason) when you call them, but remember the odds that the person you speak to is responsible for this situation are infinitesimally small, be nice to them. In my experience BG agents are much, much more likely to go out of their way to help a customer they like. Get them to empathize with your situation and your over half way home.

 

Final notes: Phone calls to BG are free from a BT landline, but other networks may charge. Whilst you are on the phone the agent is dealing with your inquiry, once you're off the phone any further work done on the inquiry is quite probably affecting the agents monitored call stats (specifically their 'wrap'). Agents do their best work for you when you're not screwing their wrap stat! So always call from a freephone number and be patient with them.

 

I hope this helps a little, and good luck.

 

EB