Are my Debts Statute barred??

[amac31]

Hi, hope someone can help.

 

I have a few old debts to various DCA's that have dropped off my credit file or simply do not show on my credit file.

 

I know that I have made token payments on them about 3 years ago

 

but cannot recall any of the payments being recorded on the credit file.

 

Are these debts now classed as SB because they have dropped off as the 6 years since default has occurred

 

or can the DCA's still act on them because I made the token payments?

[reallymadwoman]

Debts become statute barred (in England and Wales, Scotland is different) 6 years after the cause of action arose, which in your case would almost certainly be 6 years after the last payment you made so you still have about 3 years to go.

[amac31]

Thanks for your response, so even though debts that were previously on my credit file but have now dropped off these are still enforceable by the DCA's?

[reallymadwoman]

They are not statute barred but that doesn't mean you wouldn't have some other defence, e.g. invalid or non-existent paperwork, invalid default notice, no notice of assignment.

 

Are you being chased for payment now? If so, telling us who by and approximate amounts would enable people to give more focussed advice.

[Newbie21]

@ amac31

 

have made token payments on them about 3 years ago but cannot recall any of the payments being recorded on the credit file.

Suggest you look at your current credit file details or past bank statements to get the exact date of your last payment.

 

 

simply do not show on my credit file.

If 6years has not passed from last payment, one reason for this I have read, is that the default entry seem to have disappeared then reappear when sold to another debt collector. The only way to check is to refer to at least 3 credit file data periodically as some agencies have more data than others. If after 6months, let's say, it doesn't reappear then it may indeed be truly gone

 

Saying that, one dropped off my credit file early last year and hasn't re-appeared yet (if at all) and this is perhaps because:

 

1) amount too 'low' (£132 - dispute with a mobile phone company for a non-existent contract) to pass on anymore for attempted collection (it has had 3 debt collectors assigned to it so far)

 

and

 

2) this year it becomes statue barred

 

 

can the DCA's still act on them because I made the token payments?

Similar to what reallymadwoman has said, the date of the last payment is when the 6yr clock starts. Note though that

 

the clock restarts, "if the debtor acknowledges the debt in writing or makes a part payment"

 

For more info on statue barred status, you can look at this HMRC webpage:

Law relating to debts: statute-barred debts

 

Also the StepChange website provides professional debt remedy advice in more depth than I can give you and suggest you take a look at their website

[amac31]

Thanks again for the responses,

I have been on this site a number of years and know exactly how to deal with these low life's should I need to.

 

 

I was just curious because the debts are dropping off exactly 6 years from the default date and although the DCA's were listed on my credit file as the owners of the debt, they never updated with any payments made nor did my default balance ever alter.

 

Interestingly enough,

2 of them were with Lowell's then passed on to Bryan Carter who took me to court

but when I defended the claim he sent a notice of discontinuance for 1

and the other he never proceeded past the original claim being issued.

( see other threads from me ).

 

Just to add, checked with all 3 CRA's and it is the same for all 3.

Edited January 20, 2014 by amac31
Extra info

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Yes all defaulted accounts are removed from CRA files after 6 years paid or not, but the debt still exists and remains payable this is also the case for statute barred debts in England and Wales the debt still exists and can be chased for collection by any means short of court action.

 

In Scotland a debt is totally extinguished after 5 years of no payments and/or written acknowledgement.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Yes all defaulted accounts are removed from CRA files after 6 years paid or not, but the debt still exists and remains payable this is also the case for statute barred debts in England and Wales the debt still exists and can be chased for collection by any means short of court action.

Creditors/DCAs can still try to collect SB debts except where the debtor has told them that it's SB and that no payment will be made, in which case the OFT Guidance considers that continuing to pursue is an unfair business practice.

[psyduck]

I think the second post answers your Q, as you made payments towards these debts 3 years ago they are still enforceable. Default drops off after 6 years regardless so even though it is not on your credit file it is not SB'd

 

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but they can't re-default you if you stop paying as you can only register a defaulted account once, however they can still continue collection activity

[amac31]

Yes all defaulted accounts are removed from CRA files after 6 years paid or not, but the debt still exists and remains payable this is also the case for statute barred debts in England and Wales the debt still exists and can be chased for collection by any means short of court action.

 

In Scotland a debt is totally extinguished after 5 years of no payments and/or written acknowledgement.

 

 

 

So are you saying that they can still collect the debt but not enforce it in a court if it has dropped off my credit file? Im confused now

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Statute Barred in England and Wales means only that the debt cannot be enforced through the court system.

The removal of accounts from CRA files after 6 years paid or not is done so that all debtors are on the same level e.g., a debtor who has made no effort to clear their debt would have the default removed where as someone who has paid would have the debt showing as an arrangement to pay on file until settled.

 

The credit file default and the statute barring of a debt are two different matters.

 

The OFT Guidance On Debt Collection says that The OFT considers it unfair to press for payment of a statute barred debt once the debtor has stated in writing that the debt is statute barred and they will not make payment.

 

This is generally accepted throughout the debt collection industry/creditors some DCAs will take a 'moral' stance and attempt to persuade a debtor to pay.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

So are you saying that they can still collect the debt but not enforce it in a court if it has dropped off my credit file? Im confused now

 

The Credit file entry and Stat Barred status are two different matters, ALL defaulted accounts are removed after 6 years paid or not.however this does not mean a debt is stat barred, payments may have been made or a written acknowledgment made in the six year period.

 

Stat Barred means as you say cannot be enforced in court, the law in England & Wales is that the debt still exists and remains payable.

The OFT Guidance on Debt Collection states that the OFT considers that it is unfair to press for payment of a Stat Barred debt after the debtor has confirmed in writing to the creditor/DCA that the debt is stat barred and they will not be paying.

 

Some DCAs will attempt to take a 'moral' stance that the debt should still be paid, best ignored.

[amac31]

The Credit file entry and Stat Barred status are two different matters, ALL defaulted accounts are removed after 6 years paid or not.however this does not mean a debt is stat barred, payments may have been made or a written acknowledgment made in the six year period.

 

Stat Barred means as you say cannot be enforced in court, the law in England & Wales is that the debt still exists and remains payable.

The OFT Guidance on Debt Collection states that the OFT considers that it is unfair to press for payment of a Stat Barred debt after the debtor has confirmed in writing to the creditor/DCA that the debt is stat barred and they will not be paying.

 

Some DCAs will attempt to take a 'moral' stance that the debt should still be paid, best ignored.

 

 

 

As we have established , these debts will not be statute barred because I have made payments in the last 3 years, but the defaults have dropped off my account because they are 6 years old. Can a creditor still obtain a CCJ for these debts even though they do not appear the files of any CRA ?

[ims21]

As we have established , these debts will not be statute barred because I have made payments in the last 3 years, but the defaults have dropped off my account because they are 6 years old. Can a creditor still obtain a CCJ for these debts even though they do not appear the files of any CRA ?

 

Yes

 

EDIT: The fact that they do not appear on your credit file is not a bar to them taking legal proceedings.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

AND the CCJ will appear in the 'public information' section of CRA files.

[Newbie21]

 

@ amac31

 

I'm confused

 

You say there were two defaults, then one and now neither show up on your credit file. You also say you last made payments 3 years ago but can't recall

 

Did you stop making payments 3 years ago because they were still on your credit file

 

or

 

stopped paying because no longer showing up in 2011? (3 years ago)

 

 

What year did you notice that they were gone from your credit file?

[amac31]

 

@ amac31

 

I'm confused

 

You say there were two defaults, then one and now neither show up on your credit file. You also say you last made payments 3 years ago but can't recall

 

Did you stop making payments 3 years ago because they were still on your credit file

 

or

 

stopped paying because no longer showing up in 2011? (3 years ago)

 

 

What year did you notice that they were gone from your credit file?

 

I stopped paying in July 2010 after seeking help from CCCS ( Stepchange ) and after we realised that our income did not even cover priority debts let alone non priority.

The defaults both dropped of my file in November 2013 exactly 6 years from the date they were recorded.

[Newbie21]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but they can't re-default you if you stop paying as you can only register a defaulted account once

I’m not a debt adviser however, I believe that when a debt is passed on, the new owners registers the debt so that it appears on a credit file to reflect the update.

 

Similar to selling a car in the UK – the keys and paperwork are passed to the new owner and the DVLA is informed – therefore it is kinda ‘re-defaulted’ whether payment made or not and

 

stays as a ‘re-default’ until satisfied (paid in full)

 

or

 

not acknowledged (no payment made within 6years)

 

Another way to look at my reasoning is like this (using the same car analogy):

The original default notice (car first registration) is only issued once and yet the car can have several owners (keys and paperwork transferred again and again) who by Law inform the DVLA (credit reference agencies) that they are the new owner.

 

Also ‘re-defaulted’ shown so that debtor knows who to make payments to

 

I came to this conclusion because reading another forum post,

I learnt that a default disappeared and reappeared under another debt collector’s name

- evidently debt was sold on

[Newbie21]

@ amac31

 

Similiar to the ConsumerAction info regarding SB, and what Brigadier2jcs, ScarletPimpernel have said, an unsecured debt becomes statute-barred after 6 years in the UK from the date of last payment or acknowledgment and a secured debt is after 12 years.

 

With a defaulted UK unsecured loan, the creditor cannot use the UK legal system to enforce payment and to reflect this, the debt ‘disappears’ from a credit file from date of last payment + 6 years. However, the debt (loan minus payments made) still exists and the creditor can therefore still chase for payment only the chasing will not be legally recognised (creditor/debt collector can’t use UK Courts to force you to pay and have to use persuasive tactics instead i.e. letters asking for payment)

 

The thing is though, to continue chasing after 6years (statue barred) has passed is frowned on under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008/Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidelines (more info found here in this OFT Debt Collection Guidance PDF (TIP: Statue barring info starts on page 36)

 

 

 

stopped paying in July 2010 after seeking help from CCCS ( Stepchange )

I am mystified why it has dropped off your credit file 'early' because

 

 

although the DCA's were listed on my credit file as the owners of the debt, they never updated with any payments made nor did my default balance ever alter.

I’m wondering where your payments have gone/were going and yet that may be the reason why they dropped off - payments never showed on your files (so looked like 6yrs of no payment activity)

 

Shhhh!!

 

Say nuffin!

 

 

 

Can a creditor still obtain a CCJ

If no CCJ is issued within 6 years from the date of your last payment, it would be frowned on by the Courts and questions asked why the creditor wishes to apply for one AFTER the default expiry date. Should this occur, you can apply for it to be set aside (dismissed/cancelled)

 

Note that a CCJ can be issued anytime during the default's existence (date of last payment + 6 years passing) However, as your default appears to be off your credit file (since Nov 2013), it is very doubtful that one will be issued.

 

More on CCJ’s ins and outs are found on the TrustOnline website and relevant ConsumerAction forum posts

 

I do think that organisations such as StepChange are still best to advise you or forum members who have experienced the same as you, or those members with more debt knowledge than me though

Edited January 22, 2014 by Newbie21

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The process is very basic.

A creditor considers that an agreement has been broken (e.g. cessation of payments/or continual late/missed payments) notice of intention to default issued - not complied with default notice issued notice issued again not complied with, then account is defaulted and default registered with CRAs.

 

The default date cannot be changed however many times the debt is sold and the defaulted account is removed from the files on the 6th anniversary of the default date paid or not.

SO it is of no consequence that there has been no payment/part payment or settlement in full.

 

When a debt is sold the creditor and /or the debt purchaser inform the debtor of the sale (notice of assignment) this may be just the first contact from the DCA.

 

Within a 'reasonable' the debt purchaser updates the CRA files with its details The Default Date Cannot Be Changed At This Time or at any time in the future.

 

Where a lot of confusion occurs is the date of issue of the default notice is Not the date of the actual default which may (usually) up to 6 month later.

 

If a debtor has made an arrangement to pay the debt a default can still be placed or the creditor may enter AP markers on CRA files, if the AP fails the creditor may reissue the DN and then default the account at this time.

 

If a debt does not appear on CRA files it is not necessarily statute barred the two dates are Not synonymous.

[somethingelseplease]

What would a written acknowledge letter read like ??I may have sent a few but can't really remember if I acknowlegded the debt in any of them How could I tell if the clock had started again, would the credit file be updated to show another 5 years had been added on ??

[maroondevo52]

No your credit file would not indicate if any further years were added.

[somethingelseplease]

So how would one know if the clock had started again ?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Relevant acknowledgment: An unequivocal written acknowledgment is for example asking for a payment plan to be set up/ making a token payment/ asking for 'time to pay/

stating that one can't pay now, but maybe able to do so later etc.

 

 

All letters should contain the phrase 'I do not acknowledge any debt to xxxxxxxxxx.

 

 

Requests for CCAs and SARs do not reset the clock.