liability order from 2006/7

[dalee1998]

Hi all,

Completely new to this and still unsure if I have posted in correct place even after watching instruction video so apologies if I have done so incorrectly!

 

To begin...I moved from a private rent property in 2007 to the address where I have now lived for over 6 years.

Not by choice but letting agency informed me that home owner was selling up and I had 2mths to move out so I did.

 

I moved from one local authority to a new one approx. 20miles away and so life has continued..

..Until today when I received a letter from Jbw requesting immediate payment of £1,020 in respect of unpaid council tax from my previous address

 

Up until today I had no idea that I had anything outstanding but as I was in quite a stressful situation back then, I cannot guarantee otherwise!

I was at breaking point when I moved...debt up to my eyeballs, working, single mum of 2 young children

and trying to find somewhere to live with blacklisted credit history which does not bode well for future private rent letting agencies

but managed to get it together enough to move to present address.

 

So to present day, I have been signed onto ESA but only get part of my rent paid as I have 3 bedrooms

and 2 children of same sex so council deems they should share until oldest reaches 16yrs which will be next year.

In the meantime, I have managed to subsidise rent out of ESA whilst also receiving child tax and child benefit and maintaining utility bills on payment plans.

 

But now I have received this letter from Jbw demanding full £1,20.10 immediately

and saying that they have called round with the intention of seizing goods

but were unable to do so!

 

They left no calling card and was unaware of them until today.

 

phoned council I was previously with

who said that I had the council tax debt from my previous property.

They said they issued a liability order in 2007 and that Jbw was the third bailiffs they had used to track me.

 

I said that had they made me aware I had an outstanding debt then I would of contacted them to try to arrange a payment schedule

but she said there was nothing she could do now and that I had to contact bailiffs directly.

 

I am in absolute bits

I had finally managed to keep my debts in order and paid on time and really don't know how to deal with this,

 

I am too scared to phone them as I have virtually no disposable income per month

and am worried that they will refuse to consider a payment option!

 

My child is presently doing his exams and is already suffering from stress of that

and now is hiding in his room worried that bailiffs are going to come round.

 

Think this is enough to tip us all over the edge financially and emotionally,

was finding it difficult enough before but this feels like final nail in the coffin

 

If anyone has any suggestions on best way to deal with Jbw,

I would be really grateful.

 

Just wish I had known about the debt years ago!

[ims21]

Hi

 

I have moved your thread to the Bailiff forum where the guys will be along to help as soon as they are available.

[dalee1998]

Thank you! And apologies for being such a newbie at this :/

[ims21]

Thank you! And apologies for being such a newbie at this :/

 

No probs and don't worry....we are all newbies once

[dx100uk]

1st things first

 

you don't HAVE to speak to the bailiff at all

just ignore him

 

talk out the windows if you must

and film him on a mobile.

 

now down to the debt.

 

has he left a breakdown?

 

what does the council say about the LO?

get these questions answered.

 

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

 

just to put you a bit at ease

 

old ctax is classed as a non priority debt so it could be as little as £5PCW direct from your benefits.

 

dx

[dalee1998]

Thank you

I will contact council today for the info you have mentioned.

 

I guess I should also get them to confirm it in writing,

 

should I ask them to put the account 'in dispute' or is that just going to make matters worse?

 

I am not sure I have anything to dispute yet!

[ploddertom]

Until you get your anwers from the Council there is not much you can do.

 

Look out for them charging you for a period after you moved as it is common for Councils

to say they have no records of you having moved and claiming you remain liable for the extra time.

 

As a Liability Order has been issued there can be no dispute at the present time.

[tomtubby]

You need to be aware that you are not under any obligation to allow a bailiff into your home

and given your financial circumstances you should AVOID allowing the bailiff entry into the property.

 

If the bailiff is unable to "levy" upon goods, then the fees that can be charged are limited to £42.50.

 

The problem that you will have is that if the bailiff is unable to gain "peaceful" entry he will instead, levy upon a car.

It is important therefore that if you have a car that you consider moving it elsewhere for the time being.

 

Make sure that you WRITE or better still email JBW and explain your circumstances.

 

When speaking with the council you need to ensure that you ask them to confirm the amount of the Liability Order

and compare this figure to the amount being requested by JBW.

[brassnecked]

Sound advice from tomtubby, it would be a VERY BAD idea to let the bailiff in very bad indeed, and there is no law that compels you to deal with one.

(welcome back TT you were missed BN)

[dalee1998]

Thanx for the advice guys!

 

Sorry I not been on to read your replies, pc connection probs on top of all else!

I am at stale mate at the moment.

..As this was so long ago I am finding it hard to recall what happened nearly 7yrs ago!

 

Had I been aware of this debt, I would of had it added to my debt relief order 2yrs ago!

 

Have garaged the car though its only worth a few hundred as its just a cheap run around for my kids.

But am worried about bailiffs see me driving it out of garage!

 

I am guessing they could levy if they see my number plate?

 

Have contacted the council in writing requesting details of liability order etc so await their response.

 

Just so upset that they wont even give me an option to re-pay by payment plan!

 

As I don't even live in their area anymore its not as if I can run up any more debt with them

and I just don't understand how it has taken 3 different bailiff companies and 6...nearly 7yrs to find me!

 

Which is my fault according to the council :/

[dalee1998]

I have just been on a council tax liability widget and want to know if any of the following info applies to me and/or is correct?

 

Bearing in mind that I moved to my present address in Aug 2007 to a different council authority.

 

* Council have failed to comply with council tax regulations that allow me to pay from my benefits.

 

*Section 23 and Section 33 of the Council tax (administration and enforcement ) Regulations 1992 or Section 2 of the limitation Act 1980:

The council tax debt dies.

The liability order cannot be used to recover a debt at a different address than the one shown.

A fresh liability order cannot be granted for liability that is more than 6 yrs old.

 

*plus it said something about vulnerable people

ie: single parents and those that are ill....

 

.I am a single mum on esa until at least April 2014

when I will be re-assessed regarding my illness after a year on esa.

 

Any help on above would be much appreciated!

[dx100uk]

the LO is for where you resided nothing to do with your address now.

the LA 1980 does not apply as long as they got the LO within 6yrs from the date due.

 

 

dx

[dalee1998]

Thanx for reply dx,

 

 

council said they issued liability order in 2007 so does anything I stated apply?

 

I am at a loss! :/

 

 

I will never have enough cash to pay over a thousand quid unless by instalments!

 

 

And now feel like a prisoner in our home!

 

 

Cant even let my kids answer the door to their friends (just in case) as we cant see who is at the door!

 

 

Haven't even got anything to sell to raise the cash!

 

 

What will be their next option if they don't manage to levy?

[dx100uk]

bounce it back to the council ...simple!

 

 

you don't have to be a prisoner!

 

 

if they answer the door - close it! .

 

 

who's the council & who's the bailiffs

not equita and a capita council is it?

[dalee1998]

Its North Somerset council and JBW. Didn't even know who jbw was until this week! Thought they were a sports shop lol :/

[hallowitch]

I have just been on a council tax liability widget and want to know if any of the following info applies to me and/or is correct?

 

Bearing in mind that I moved to my present address in Aug 2007 to a different council authority.

 

* Council have failed to comply with council tax regulations that allow me to pay from my benefits.

do they know you are on benefits have you asked them to take payments from your benefits

*Section 23 and Section 33 of the Council tax (administration and enforcement ) Regulations 1992 or Section 2 of the limitation Act 1980:

The council tax debt dies.

 

tosh if the liability order was issued within 6 years of the debt the limitations act does not apply

The liability order cannot be used to recover a debt at a different address than the one shown.

More rubbish

 

A fresh liability order cannot be granted for liability that is more than 6 yrs old.

they don't need a fresh liability order the one theyhave was granted within 6 yrs of the debt

*plus it said something about vulnerable people

ie: single parents and those that are ill....

 

.I am a single mum on esa until at least April 2014

when I will be re-assessed regarding my illness after a year on esa.

The only thing they got right you may be classed as a vulnerable debtor according to the National Standard's For enforcement agent (will post a link to them )

Any help on above would be much appreciated!

 

I will give the best advice you will ever get regarding the site with the widget don't touch it with a barge pole it may look good but its not and most regular posters on here know this site very well and none of us would advice you or anyone else to use this site

[hallowitch]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?379212-National-Standards-for-Enforcement-Agents

[dalee1998]

Thanx hallowitch! Darn...its all such a mine field, eh! Thank you for your advice, saves me from digging a deeper hole for myself!

Seems wherever I go there is different advice but feel a bit safer following this site I guess best advice is still just not answer the door :/

[dalee1998]

I did tell the council I was a single mum on benefits and couldn't afford to pay it all in one go so would they accept a payment plan and they said there was nothing they could do to help me and I had to deal direct with jbw.

 

Didn't ask them to take payment from benefits as I didn't realise I could at the time?

If I can, then how much can they take per week/month?

I am struggling as it is with basic water, electric, and gas plus food for kids (not me as I can go without for a day or two if things are tough) and I don't have credit cards etc

[wonkeydonkey]

AOE is based on income and on a sliding scale, it will be a lot less than JBW will be expecting you to pay that's for sure!!

As nerve wrecking as it might be ..SIT TIGHT and wait to see what both Council and JBW have to say. I think once you get everything back and we get to see what periods the Council are charging for along with what fees JBW think they can claim you will find you don't owe nearly as much as they claim you do.

[dalee1998]

I am seriously panicking! It is as bad as I think...On the phone the council said I owed £977 council tax from march 2006 up till june 2007 and jbw sent me immediate payment letter for £1,20.10p. Council said they took out liability order in 2007 but that it had taken 3 different bailiffs companies to find me .I wasn't even hiding! :/

 

Now, after checking councils site..am worried sick they gonna apply for bankruptcy order if bailiff fails to levy!

 

That would mean them informing my private landlord and that would result in me being made homeless as my tenancy was for working people only!

 

My landlord is not aware of my personal circumstances and thought it was none of their business as I have lived here for over 6 yrs and maintained the property and always paid the rent on time.

Even if my landlord didn't chuck me out for being bankrupt, they might find another way to get me out, even though I have NEVER been in rent arrears but they did look to raise rent by more than I could afford 3 mths ago and I managed to get them to accept a minimal raise due to me being a good tenant who looked after the property....this could change everything! My kids totally rely on me...we have no one else

[frankieK]

I am new to this and desperate for advice and don't know what to do...

 

I fell into trouble with my bills and rent a year ago, ended up being evicted and since then have lost my job, not entitled to any benefits yet and living at no fixed abode. my parents have had hand posted letters dropped at their house for me the last one a week ago but I only collected today from Rossendales bailiffs stating I owe £650 for unpaid CTAX. I am not disputing that I owe the money but obviously until I secure a job I have no way of paying them nor do I own anything other than my clothes to levy against anything. Where do I stand and what do I say to this company that I am hearing bad things about? My OAP parents are distressed that they will take their belongings and car when I don't even live there and can proove this ob their council tax record etc... where do I stand, do I contact the bailiff, the company, the council?? I want to try and nip in the bud before the bailiffs visit my parents again and cause them more distress.

[dalee1998]

@frankiek.. you need to start your own new thread, there is a help video on this site or if, like me, you cant quite figure it out then a site member may help you to do so which will hopefully enable you to get advice more directed at your personal needs

[tomtubby]

I am seriously panicking! It is as bad as I think...On the phone the council said I owed £977 council tax from march 2006 up till june 2007 and jbw sent me immediate payment letter for £1,20.10p. Council said they took out liability order in 2007 but that it had taken 3 different bailiffs companies to find me .I wasn't even hiding! :/

 

Now, after checking councils site..am worried sick they gonna apply for bankruptcy order if bailiff fails to levy!

 

 

 

 

Can you call the council and ask them to confirm the precise date on which the Liability Order has been issued and the PRECISE amount.

 

You have stated that JBW are requesting £1,20.10. I assume that this is a slight misspelling, can you post back with the correct figure. As things stand the bailiff may only charge a maximum fee of £42.50 for "attending to levy" (where no levy was made).

 

The comment of bankruptcy is frankly irrelevant. Local Authorities may indeed take bankruptcy proceedings but such applications are rare. North Somerset council would have to pay court fee for the B/R of approx £1,000 which is MORE that the debt owed by you. Bankruptcy is pursued in an attempt to get payment, it would not be pursued to inflict punishment.

 

Can you post back with the amount that JBW are asking for and can you ask the council WHAT charges have been applied and when. Also can you ask the council whether JBW have levied upon goods and if so, when and what goods have been levied?

[tomtubby]

I have just been on a council tax liability widget and want to know if any of the following info applies to me and/or is correct?

 

Bearing in mind that I moved to my present address in Aug 2007 to a different council authority.

 

I am so sorry but when I posted this morning I had only read page 2 and had not noticed this post from you. I do apologise. I will try to explain the errors in response that you have been given after running a "widget".

 

Firstly, you will not find such a devise as a "widget" on forums such as this and there are many reasons for this not least the Data Protection Rules.

 

 

 

* Council have failed to comply with council tax regulations that allow me to pay from my benefits.

 

The above comment is absolute nonsense.

 

The legislation is clear in that once a Liability Order is issued the local authority are to "levy upon goods" to secure the debt. If they are unable to "levy" ( there may be insufficient goods) then they must consider alternative methods of enforcement..one of which is an attachment of benefits.

 

In your case, the LA have stated that the debt had been sent to 3 bailiff firms and they could not trace you. A 4th company ( JBW) have now located you and are attempting to "levy" upon goods. If they fail to "levy" then the debt can be returned and if you are now on benefits you can approach the council to ask that they make an attachment against your benefits. The council is not at fault.

 

 

*Section 23 and Section 33 of the Council tax (administration and enforcement ) Regulations 1992 or Section 2 of the limitation Act 1980:

The council tax debt dies.

 

This is complete garbage !!! It is very easy for internet sites to quote case law and legislation and appears easier still to mislead vulnerable debtors ( such as yourself) that the quoted legislation is correct when in fact, .......it is merely what they want it to be. In other words, blurring the lines between theory and reality.

 

Both sections of the council tax legislation quoted deal with "service" of a notice of Liability Order /summons etc. Furthermore, the legislation is clear in that the smmons etc may be sent to the address "known to the council". If a debtor failed to update the address with the council the the LA are perfectly able to continue using the address that they have on their records.

 

Sadly, unless there is a change to legislation ( and it should certainly be the case that this be considered ) there is no simple provision to "set aside" the Liability Order by way of a Statutory Declaration.

 

The reference to Section 2 of the Limitations Act is most odd given that this section ONLY deals with "actions for Tort" after 6 years and has no relevance at all for Liability Orders.

 

The liability order cannot be used to recover a debt at a different address than the one shown.

 

Rubbish. This is a common misunderstanding following a legal ruling regarding a County Court Judgment ( Huntress etc). This is very different to a Liability Order issued in the Magistrates Court where the regulations state clearly that the notices should be sent to the address known to the council.

 

A fresh liability order cannot be granted for liability that is more than 6 yrs old.

 

There is no need to issue a "fresh liability order" as the once in force is legal.