Help with bailiff visit to remove goods please

[Cullumpster]

Hello there,

I am posting this for some advice please.

 

This morning there was a mighty knock at the door and a man built like a brick s*** house was asking for money.

 

After my husband spoke to him (Lucky he was there) we had a chat about what had happened

 

we are behind with our council tax payments, although to be fair i paid them every month via internet banking,

as i had already spoken to them about a payment plan.

 

I made a payment on the 26th august for £160 which i have been doing every mth, and it went as normal,

 

however, when we were checking the statements at the end of the next mth (Sept)

it showed that the money had come straight back into our account.

 

Now i assumed that there was something maybe wrong on our account

 

we called the council to ask if they had received the payment,

and they advised that they had not,

and they had now passed the debt to a bailiff

and said we needed to speak to them and gave us their number to call.

 

My husband was left with sorting this out as i work funny shifts (12hrs) and was not going to be in to do this.

 

He called the bailiff directly,

now after reading this forum i am now aware that we should not have done this

but the council lady gave us the number to call.

 

The man then said that he had to come to our house to sort out a payment plan

and made an appointment to come around the next week.!

 

i was at work so was not there to deal with the man

but Steve showed up and my husband let him in

(I know again from reading the forum that this was probably not the best thing to do)

 

they sorted out a payment plan for £25 a week starting from the next week

and gave him a letter with the details and what they would take if it all went pear shaped (Which it has).

 

the 1st week hubby went to them directly and paid the 25 and has a receipt

2nd week done via phone 25 (with the dc fee goes to 28)

and the 3rd wk 28 again by phone

 

he has however and not to my knowledge missed a week (which after checking turns out to be 2!)

 

He went to see them yesterday to ask if we can pay them monthly

as it would be easier as we owed £50 and

 

he only had £30 on him which they refused to take as it was not the full amount.

 

Steve said that he would have to pop to the house again and coud sort something out.#

 

Which brings us back to today

 

Mr Big polish guy said you have missed payments and now it has been passed onto me,

Steve has nothing to do with it and you need to pay £500 by Friday

or we will come into your house with a locksmith and take your stuff.

 

My husband looks like he is going to have some sort of heart attack and i don't know what to do,

i have tried speaking to the council but they will not do anything as it is with the bailiffs

and i have read about just paying them directly but the payments will no go as they are bouncing back.

 

How does 50 turn into 500 in 1 day,

i know my husband was stupid to miss weeks a

nd we have spoken about it but it was a genuine mistake he just completely forgot.

 

I asked him to get all of the paperwork so i can look at it and come on this forum to ask you guys.

 

This is the paperwork i'm so sorry for the length of the post

 

Dated 3-10-13

 

Notice of seizure of goods and inventory.

 

Amount for which this distress is made

Arrears due to authority £611.50

1st attendance fee £0

2nd attendance fee £0

Levy fee to scale schedule £67

Attending with a vehicle with a view to removing £200 !! (he cam in a car)

Walking possession fee £11 (Again he came in a car)

Close possession fee per day £0

Removal fee / where no sale takes place £22.50

Amount paid £0

URGENT ARREARS NOW DUE £1912

 

Now i am no Carol Vorderman but doesn't that have to add up ?

 

Letter left today

Enforcement action

We attended at your property today with a view to removing your goods.

You have incurred further costs as a result of the bailiffs attendance.

 

If full payment is not IMMEDIATELY paid to our head office we will re-attend your property

with a view to FORCING ENTRY AND REMOVING YOUR GOODS

in accordance with the terms of the walking possession agreement.

 

They will attend this Friday at 10

 

It also says

If our bailiff has to re-attend you may incur further costs as a consequence of the re attendance.

 

Please note a locksmith will also be in attendance and you will be responsible for any costs incurred

as a result of our bailiff having to force entry and replace locks.

 

Total now due £1837 where has that figure come from ???

 

Please help,

i know what we should have done,

however it has been done and i need some guidance please??

[Cullumpster]

Oh i forgot to say that

 

the only thing that is written on the yellow piece of paper that is the 'contract' that my hubby has signed,

is a crappy old table and chairs in the living room which is about 10 yrs old.

 

Also we had no letters from the council to say that this was being passed to them,

 

should we have received something?

[renegadeimp]

Ignore the bailiff. If this is for council tax, then deal with the council directly. The bailiff cannot do ANYTHING without permission from the court.

 

It also seems that this idiot of a bailiff has done an incorrect levy.

 

 

Pay the council online with what you can afford, and pay it regularly. Tell the council what you are doing, then tell the bailiff that the debt is being dealt with by the council direct. Hide your car and the ONLY thing the bailiff can charge are two visit fee's, and nothing else. He will of course try to claim otherwise, but theres nothing he can ever do.

 

As youve seen, he has massively increased the debt with false and illegal charges.

[Cullumpster]

Thanks for the quick reply,

I can't make payments to the council though as the money is bouncing back,

also my husband called a friend of his that used to be a bailiff

and he has said that they can legally get a locksmith and come and take your things !!!

 

Now i'm assuming that you guys are right but it is so scary to think someone is going to turn up at my house to take my things away, i only have 1 table, are we supposed to sit on the floor?

[renegadeimp]

You make it direct to them via their online payment portal.

 

Your husbands friend is completely wrong.

 

Unless the bailiff has handed back the debt to the council,

and the council has gone for enforcement orders,

upon which you are normally asked to go to court to provide a statement of means.

Forced entry is normally a last resort and is only used for those who default delibrately or try and evade payment.

 

deny the bailiff entry, keep vehicles away from your home, and all the bailiff can do is charge 2 visit fee's and stamp their feet.

 

If the levy happened as you say it did, then it isnt considered a realistic levy as it would have no chance of repaying the debt.

 

Sit tight and the regulars will be around to give you more specific advice on your next move.

 

Im pretty confident in saying that the baliff you encountered was a rogue bailiff

who thinks they can do anything they please.

[Cullumpster]

Thanks,

Today is getting better and better NOT !

So my post comes quite late as a i live in a village, it has just arrived and there is a poted letter to me from the bailiffs telling us that the debt above £1837

still remains unpaid and they are sending the boys round, to avoid it i must pay the local office (Merthyr) before the bailiff comes !! Do they think i am Dr Who ?? He's already been !

[dx100uk]

oh dear........

 

those fees are WRONG

 

please name the bailiff company and the council involved.

 

and NO they CANNOT force entry on a CTAX debt ...end of!!

 

are you saying you have NEVER had anything from the council PRIOR to the bailiff 'visits'?

 

somethings wrong here bet its ruddy capita and equita bailiffs.

not actually the council you are dealing with.

 

look at you original CTAX bill for the start of the year

it should have a sort/account number use that

and your ctax ref number as the ref number for payment.

 

you also need to do this:

 

if you can pay you should be paying the council

direct via your internet banking site

never ever pay a bailiff.

.

Here is something to be getting on with. First of all establish from the Council how much was owing etc You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

.

Next you need to send off for a breakdown of the charges the Bailiff applied. Here's an example, use and adapt at will and best sent initially by email backed up by a copy in the post.

.

"From:

My Name

My Address

.

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

.

Ref: Account No: 123456

.

Dear Sir

.

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

.

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

.

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

.

I require this information within 14 days.

.

Yours faithfully

.

Ripped off customer"

.

[renegadeimp]

Rule number 1 of dealing with bailiffs.

 

1. BAILIFFS LIE!

 

Make sure you keep windows and doors locked, and keep any vehicle a good 5-10 min walk away in a safe side street.

[Cullumpster]

Thank you,

Ok the company is Swift Certified bailiffs in Merthyr Tydfil

 

I have had no letters at all from the council, the only time we knew was as i said when we checked the statement and the money had bounced back

Edited November 12, 2013 by Cullumpster
missed stuff

[Cullumpster]

Yes the sort code and account number with my CT reference was the payments that i was making however it just bounces back again.

[sequenci]

Ignore the bailiff. If this is for council tax, then deal with the council directly. The bailiff cannot do ANYTHING without permission from the court.

 

It also seems that this idiot of a bailiff has done an incorrect levy.

 

 

Pay the council online with what you can afford, and pay it regularly. Tell the council what you are doing, then tell the bailiff that the debt is being dealt with by the council direct. Hide your car and the ONLY thing the bailiff can charge are two visit fee's, and nothing else. He will of course try to claim otherwise, but theres nothing he can ever do.

 

As youve seen, he has massively increased the debt with false and illegal charges.

 

From the information it sounds like only the fees are misleading. If a bailiff has obtained peaceful entry and has made a levy they may be able to come back and use force to get in to the property.

[sequenci]

and NO they CANNOT force entry on a CTAX debt ...end of!!

 

If there is a valid levy they can.

 

They could force entry to take the items listed - the fact that they appear to worth very little convinces me that this would be unlikely.

[renegadeimp]

From the information it sounds like only the fees are misleading. If a bailiff has obtained peaceful entry and has made a levy they may be able to come back and use force to get in to the property.

 

SO whathappens if the levy is invalid, or the bailiff has levied on goods that come nowhere to meeting the value of the debt? And is used purely to scare the debtor into paying the grossly inflated fee's? Wouldnt this make the levy invalid? Especially given the listing of fee's which doesnt even make sense, and the bailiff has charged fee's they are not entitled to, such as a levy fee and attending to remove on the same day?

 

We've seen it time and time again on here, and after complaints were filed, the levy was indeed removed.

[Cullumpster]

i have called the council who were less than helpful i must say,

even with a blubbering woman on the other end of the phone he was not very empathetic.

 

looks like Mr Steve bailiff number 1 has got the amount correct but seems to have some sort of writing problem

 

The total amount owed from the council is £1611.50 (He missed out the 1)

I asked all of the questions even tho i had no idea what i was asking, they are as follows.

 

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you 1

2 - the dates they were obtained 18th June

3 - the addresses they were for mine

4 - the period of time each covers 12/13 and 13/14

5 - how much each one was for 540.25 Last yr and 1069.00 this yr

6 - how much is still outstanding 1611.50

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement 4th Sept

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments 110.54 May 110.54 June (Nothing in July)

 

160 bounced back in August

i said if i had made this payment correctly i in theory would have still been paying you,

 

he adv no as there are still 3 mths outstanding,

 

i told him about checking the statements etc but he adv that i would need to speak to the bank

as he doesn't know why the payment came back.

 

Thanks !

 

I also asked if they can legally come into my house and take my things,

he answered that he didn't 100% know the answer to that ,

 

i also asked if it was reasonable to ask for £500 to pay in 3 days time,

he again said that he didn't know and that i had to spoke to the bailiff as it was nothing to do with them anymore.

[renegadeimp]

ALl i'll say is to have a read of other people in the same situation of you on this forums. You could get exact info that way. Especially from posters such as tomtubby and wonkeydonkey.

 

Also, who is the bailiff company? The council is wrong. The bailiff is acting for the council, and as such, the council is fully responsible for the actions of their agent.

 

Give the forums a read and see if theres anythign there that is similar to your issue.

[Cullumpster]

My husband is currently running around everywhere trying to borrow money so that we can pay this bailiff,

 

i am completely bamboozled now,

 

there are people saying that they can not come in and people saying that they can

- i don't want to risk that fact that they can and have someone come into my hosue

and take my only table and chairs,

what will my little boy have to sit on to eat his dinner?

 

£500 can not be a reasonable amount to find in 3 days surely?

[renegadeimp]

IF ( and its a big if) the bailiff is right in what he has done,

then he should allow you to pay in instalments.

Not have you running around everywhere to borrow money.

 

If you dont have the goods to make up the total amount of the debt,

then there is little point in the bailiff removing said goods,

as should it go back to court,

you could find that a judge would simply ask for your financial details,

and make an order on that.

 

Once question i have.

 

Did you respond to the COuncils letters, or even the courts letter that the sent you before the LO was applied for?

 

Could your family be classed as vulnerable under the national standards?

 

If so, then the bailiff are obliged to send the debt back to the council.

[Cullumpster]

i haven't had any letters at all,

i made an arrangement back in May to make monthly payments

and i have a letter about that with the amounts to be paid on that,

but nothing recently to tell us that the payments have not been received,

so the last one is dated 30th May would this count?

 

I haven't had anything from a court at all !

 

I'm not sure what would class as vulnerable,

we are all able bodies but i have a 7yr old little boy if that makes a difference.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Cullumpster
.

[Cullumpster]

My husband asked if he could pay in installments this morning

and was told that he couldn't,

but working it out we have to pay 31% of the whole amount owed in 3 days time

Edited November 12, 2013 by Cullumpster

[dx100uk]

the levy is invalid as the goods do not COVER the total of the LO & the bailiff fees.

 

so stuff all they can do to force entry.

 

in your list you say there is only ONE LO.

is this correct as you list 2 sums?

 

something is not right here.

 

no do not pay the bailiffs

 

why not send an email to the CEO of the councils CTAX division

and complain about all this

esp that you have some money to pay

but they are REFUSING it

 

if you do have 2 LO's and you got NO PAPERWORK before bailiffs came

winge about that too.

 

dx

[Cullumpster]

Yes that is definitely correct i have double checked the paperwork i wrote down

 

'Craig' gave me all of the information.

 

I don't think this is going to help us though, the man is still coming round on Friday to get his money!

[dx100uk]

they/he cant merge the two CTAX sums under one LO

 

the bailiff only has the powers of the LO for THAT sum only not both

so has only made one [unlawful] levy

 

not a levy for both sums

something is very wrong here.

 

also it may well be that that ctax sort/account is not for the LO being chased so will bounce.

 

they cant just stop you paying this years ctax by blocking all your accounts.

 

 

dx

[sequenci]

We've seen it time and time again on here, and after complaints were filed, the levy was indeed removed.

 

That's more like it. It's foolish to state a subjective opinion without reinforcing the view. So where the items levied are not going to cover the fees etc the levy *may* be invalid as the items listed need to be 'saleable' - authority for this is Francis v Nash [1734]. In accordance with Dennis v Whetham [1874] the property cause of action if for the bailiff to notify the council and return the warrant to them.

[renegadeimp]

I apologise whole heartedly seq. I'll get facts and figures before i post next time. Last thing i want is for the OP to do something wrong, with something as serious as this.

[sequenci]

I apologise whole heartedly seq. I'll get facts and figures before i post next time. Last thing i want is for the OP to do something wrong, with something as serious as this.

 

Personally I don't beleive for a minute the bailiff will attempt to force their way in, we just can't say 100% for sure. You're on the right track - I guess I have a tendency to sit on the fence too much!

 

Oh, and I'm sure there might be newer cases that could change what I've posted possibly. I've just taken those cases from an old article we have in the archives!