Advice Needed for Council Tax/Phoenix Commercial Collections

[guitarist27]

Hi all,

 

Firstly apologies if this is already being discussed in another thread but I need some urgent advice relating to outstanding Council Tax & Phoenix Commercial Collections.

 

At the beginning of this tax year, I was a little late in making a few month's payments and although I usually paid the outstanding monthly payment (albeit a couple of weeks late) my local council decided to issue me with a court summons for the full balance. Upon receiving the summons, I promptly paid my outstanding monthly payment and stupidly didn't contact the council to inform them of my intentions (being to continue making payments on a monthly basis via DD.) Subsequently the court hearing passed and the council passed the amount over to Phoenix Commercial Collections to recover the money. I only realised this when I found two, hand-delivered letters behind my door after getting home from work on 10/7/13. Obviously being quite shocked, I tried speaking with the council to arrange repayment but was told that the debt had been passed to Phoenix and I would need to liaise with them as it was now being dealt with by them. After speaking with one of their "enforcement officers" on his mobile number (which was printed at the bottom of the letter) I made an arrangement to pay £120 on a monthly basis until the balance was cleared. At this point, the balance was approximately £1250. I made my first payment via debit card and said that as I got paid on the 25th monthly, I would like the payments to be made via SO directly from my bank on or around the 25th of every month until the balance was cleared. I made this arrangement with him on the 11th July.

 

I arrived home from work yesterday (Tuesday 27th August) to find another, hand-delivered letter from another "enforcement officer" (a completely different person to whom I made the original arrangment with) which was titled "24hrs Notice of Removal," stating that the full balance of £1168 was due within 24 hours or he would be calling back to collect property to pay the outstanding balance. At no point bear in mind, have I willingly allowed anyone from Phoenix entry to my property as I understand that they cannot enter my house without my prior consent. Upon reading the letter, I promptly contact the number on the latest letter, explained the situation (that I had been making monthly payments as previously agreed) and that I didn't understand why I had received the notice. I was told that I had to contact him again in the morning as he wasn't in the office so didn't have all the documents with him. I then contacted the previous person (whom I had made the original agreement with) and again, explained the situation. He said that I hadn't made a payment so the agreement was null and void (bearing in mind that Monday 26th August was a bank holiday.) I promptly checked my bank account online and noticed that the payment had in fact come out of my account on the Tuesday due to the bank holiday being the day before and the 25th falling on a weekend.

 

Obviously being a little concerned, I have now started reading forums etc and have come to realise that I could have continued to make payments to the council directly and ignored the bailiffs. Now I am in a situation where I don't feel too positive about having these ****-bag, rude and abrupt "enforcement officers" calling round to my house whilst I am at work. I am fully prepared to repay the money outstanding but I would much rather deal with the council direct and leave Phoenix out of the equation.

 

My question is, how do I stand from a legal point of view in terms of refusing to speak to or pay Phoenix bearing in mind that I have entered a payment agreement with them? Also am I right in saying that I can claim back any monies paid to them through the small claims court? I contacted the council today and ascertained that the sum of liability was originally £1008.36, Phoenix have already had £240 from me and from what I can see, they seem to pick figures out of thin air for fee's, charges etc (as the notice letter I received yesterday stated that I owed the full balance of £1168.36) which if you work it out is £400 in total more than the liable sum.

 

Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Conniff]

You continue to strum happy tunes, this isn't anywhere near as bad as it sounds, and yes, you will pay the council direct through their on line facility and stick a middle finger up to the balffs.

 

You will get all the help you need with this and replies to your thread will be delivered to your email inbox as well as on here.

[guitarist27]

Hi Conniff,

 

Thanks for your quick reply and reassuring words. It certainly has put my mind at ease a little.

 

I guess what I really could do with some advice on is exactly what I should and shouldn't say to the baliff's (should I encounter them,) their employers and the council. Also what documentation I need to provide and in which format(s) they need to be in. I'm sure there are template letters somewhere for situations similar to this, but I'm not sure on the exact legal terminology which I need to search for and also, which documents will be relevant to my situation. I am also more than likely going to want to pursue the bailiff's and their employers if possible in the Small Claims Court for the excessive amounts they have already overcharged above the legal amount as well as costs incurred for having to take time off work to resolve the matter. Does anyone have any ideas where to start looking please? Thanks for your replies and comments

[Conniff]

You will get all the advice you need guitarist as soon as those whose particular field this is come along, it wont be long.

 

I'm going to move you into the Council tax section which is better than this one.

[guitarist27]

You will get all the advice you need guitarist as soon as those whose particular field this is come along, it wont be long.

 

I'm going to move you into the Council tax section which is better than this one.

 

Brilliant, thanks Conniff

[guitarist27]

Okay so, just an update to the above:

 

I have read on other threads about similar situations to this with Phoenix and unpaid CT arrears and have followed a couple of pieces of advice already given as they were very relevant.

 

I today cancelled my monthly standing order with Phoenix and have also made a £50 payment to the council as a gesture of good faith. I also emailed the council to inform them of this and to inform them of my actions (being that I wish them to return the account to the council to be dealt with directly, call off the bailiff action whilst I investigate the unlawful overcharging that Phoenix and their employees have been applying to my council tax account and also to inform them that I would be setting up a direct debit to pay the council every month a sum so that the balance is cleared before the end of the financial tax year.) I also sent an email to Phoenix requesting that they send me within 14 days a breakdown of the fees applied to my account, the dates these fees were applied, the names of the bailiff's that attended, their court registration details as well as reasons for any fees that have been applied. I am going to follow this up with a recorded delivery letter within the next couple of days to ensure they get this message (which I know they have as I contacted them a couple of hours later and they stated that it had already been dealt with and the fee breakdown would be in tonight's post) - we'll see!!

 

I also took the trouble of speaking to my local councillor about the situation. She basically said I didn't have a leg to stand on as it had already been to court and is too far gone for the council to return the account to them. She suggested I dealt with Phoenix directly and I contact the welfare support office to get further advice. Horse-c*** right? Clearly she doesn't know what she is talking about or am I wrong? I am getting so much conflicting advice about this I'm not sure what or who to believe! :/

[ploddertom]

Moved to Bailiff Forum.

[lookinforinfo]

You have done every thing right so far. Sadly your local Councillor is poorly informed. The Council do have the ability to take the case back from the bailiffs but often choose not to especially where the Council back

office is run by Capita who just by chance happen to own the bailiff company that are pursuing you.

 

Even if the Council say you must deal with the bailiffs, you can continue to pay them each month/week and they cannot refuse payment. Tell the bailiffs you have no faith in them dealing fairly with you and

you are now paying the Council direct with a copy to the Council.

 

You will have to prevent the bailiffs from levying on cars and any garden furniture as you will be sure to keep your doors locked and windows shut to prevent them gaining peaceful entry. As then they cannot rip

you off for more charges they will lose interest and move on to some one they can make money out of.

[ploddertom]

You have fallen into the classic trap with Bailiffs by arranging to pay in the manner you did. They would expect payment in cleared funds on the day you arranged to pay and will not accept weekends or Bank Holidays getting in the way and delaying payment even by just 1 day.

 

There is no law that says you have to speak to or deal with a Bailiff. In my view you have done the correct thing but can guarantee they will be back to visit once they find you have stopped the payments. Once you have your breakdown of fees lets us know and we'll try & sort fact from fiction for you. Of course there may be some lawful fees that have to be paid but it already sounds as if they have overcharged you.

 

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

This will give the correct information you need to compare against what the Bailiff will say.

[guitarist27]

Okay, so some more updates...

 

I got a reply from Phoenix through this morning requesting the information I asked for. Here is their response:

 

Re: Request for breakdown of account

Our reference: ........

Client reference: ......

 

We write to you with regards to your email received on 29th August 2013 of which all conents have been noted.

 

As requested please find below details you have requested in relation to your account.

 

Originating Debt - 10/06/2013 - £1031.89

Bailiff Visit Fee 1 - 02/07/2013 - 12:40pm - £24.50

Bailiff Visit Fee 2 - 10/07/2012 (that's not a typo on my part) - 12:40pm - £18.00

Bailiff Visit - 11/07/2013 - 08.28am - £0.00

Levy Fee - 11/07/2013 - 14.20pm - £54.00

Bailiff Visit - 27/08/2013 - 13.33pm - £0.00

Debit Card Fee - 11/07/2013 - £0.50

Payment Received - 11/07/2013 - £120.50

Payment Received - 28/08/2013 - £120.00

Total Payments Received to date - 29/08/2013 - £240.50

Total Amount Outstanding to date - 29/08/2013 - £888.39

 

Names of the bailiff who attended your premises are as follows:

 

Mr Rxxxxx Cxxxx - (Certificated at Manchester County Court on )

Mr Pxxxx Mxxxx - (Certificated at Manchester County Court on )

Mr Sxxxxxx Pxxxx - (Certificated at Manchester County Court on )

 

Your faithfully

Unintelligible printed squiggle

Phoenix Commercial Collections

 

So with the look of things they've added a Levy fee of £54.00. Also note the typo on the second bailiff visit date as well as the certificated date of the 1st bailiff - Mr Rxxxxx Cxxxx (xyz) - THE FIRST BAILIFF VISIT DATE WAS DATED 2/7/13 and has his name on - does this mean that Mr. Rxxxxx Cxxxx wasn't a certificated bailiff on the date he acted as a bailiff?

 

Surely also if they have applied a Levy Fee they should have a Walking Possession Order - I have never received a copy of this and have definately never signed anything to say that whatever they are trying to levy is my property...

 

Any ideas guys? Thanks for your advice so far...

Edited August 31, 2013 by ploddertom
Removed names & dates

[hallowitch]

Originating Debt - 10/06/2013 - £1031.89

Bailiff Visit Fee 1 - 02/07/2013 - 12:40pm - £24.50

 

you need to find out if the bailiff was certificated before the 4/7 as this could be the renewal date (certificate only lasts 2 yrs )

you should write to the court and ask if 4/7 was the date he renewed his certificate and was he certificated before the 4/7

you may also want ask the council and Phoenix to confirm bailiff mrxxxx was a certificated bailiff on the 2/7 therefore making the date 4/7 the date he renewed his certificate and ask them to confirm the court and date of his pervious certificate

If he wasn't a certificated bailiff on the 2/7 then he shouldn't be charging the 1st visit fee

A For making a visit to premises with a view to levying distress (where no levy is made)

where the visit is the first or only such visit £24.50

http://www.bexley.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=3028&p=0

Bailiff Visit Fee 2 - 10/07/2012 (that's not a typo on my part) - 12:40pm - £18.00

Bailiff Visit - 11/07/2013 - 08.28am - £0.00

Levy Fee - 11/07/2013 - 14.20pm - £54.00

 

To charge a levy fee the bailiff must (legally ) at the time of the levy leave a notice of seizure/distress listing the goods levied and the fees charged for this

Ask the council and PNX to provide proof of the bailiffs levy (if you have vehicle don't park it outside your house wont be the first time a drive by levy has been done after the bailiff has been asked to provide proof of a levy and its usually a car and they will swear blind that they left the notice of seizure )

Distress 45

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/regulation/45/made

 

 

 

5) The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into.

Bailiff Visit - 27/08/2013 - 13.33pm - £0.00

 

Very strange to see no fee charged here why didn't the bailiff charge an attendance to remove fee this fee can be anything from £100/200 at this stage of enforcement and with an alleged levy in place ive never seen a bailiff not charging this fee

 

Debit Card Fee - 11/07/2013 - £0.50

Payment Received - 11/07/2013 - £120.50

Payment Received - 28/08/2013 - £120.00

Total Payments Received to date - 29/08/2013 - £240.50

Total Amount Outstanding to date - 29/08/2013 - £888.39

[guitarist27]

Thanks hallowitch, I have emailed Phoenix and CC'd the council in requesting proof of the levy fee and advised I need the information within 14 days. I have also requested that the council provide in writing details relating to the liability order, the sum and the dates they were passed over including information relating to any payments already made. I have also taken the liberty of contacting Manchester County Court directly (and very, very politely) requesting confirmation of the first bailiff's certification dates:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am contacting you by way of investigation regarding Mr. Rxxxxx Cxxxx, from whom I have been charged a bailiff's visit fee for collection of a council tax bill for financial year ending March 2014.

 

Mr. Rxxxxx Cxxxx's employers - Phoenix Commercial Collections, of Registered Office: 3-4 Bower Terrace, Tonbridge Kent, have provided information relating to Mr. Cxxxx's certification dates with Manchester County Court and have advised that his date of certification was the 4th July 2013. Would it please be possible for you to confirm whether Mr. Cxxxx was a certificated bailiff on the 2nd July 2013, making this date a certification renewal date? If this is the case, would it also please be possible to provide the court and certification date of his previous certificate?

 

Many thanks for your time and if you have any questions please feel free to contact me.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

On the Notice of Removal the amount due states £1168.39 - this is £160 more than the outstanding balance as confirmed in their letter received today. So it seems that they attempted to charge an attendance to remove fee but then removed it due to the circumstances with the Bank Holiday and weekend etc. Aww, isn't that thoughtful of them?!

 

So I guess I need to wait for them to respond with the information now. Thanks for everyone's help, it is really appreciated

Edited August 31, 2013 by ploddertom
Removed names

[guitarist27]

Hey guys,

 

I have an update for you - I received an email from Phoenix today with the proof of levy, here is their response:

 

Good morning,

 

We write to you with regards to your email received, the contents of which have been noted.

 

Please find attached as requested a copy of the Levy document regarding your account.

 

Regards

 

The levy Document is as follows:

 

NOTICE OF SEIZURE OF GOODS AND INVENTORY

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992, Regulation 45

The Non-Domestic Rating (Collection and Enforcement)(Local Lists) Regulations 1989, Regulation 14

The Council Tax and Non-Domestic Rating (Amendment)(England) Regulations 2006/No 3395/2007 No 501

The Business Improvement Districts (England) Regulations 2004

 

Ref No: ####### Client Ref No. ######## Authority: *unitelligible squiggles & dots*

To: Mr. ******** Scheme: CT

Address: ************

and all others to whom it may concern.

 

TAKE NOTICE that by virtue of a Liability Order made by the Magistrates Court I have today Seized, Distrained and Impounded on the premises the goods specified in the following inventory for the sum owing to the above named Authority plus costs.

 

AND FURTHER TAKE NOTICE that unless the said amounts and costs be paid together with the expenses of this Distress within 5 days from the date hereof, the goods will be sold according to Law.

 

On expiry of the above stated number of days where payment has not been made, goods are liable for removal without further notice. This will involve you in further costs for Attendance, Cartage and Storage.

 

Amount for which the Distress is made:

Arrears Due To Authority - £1031.89

First Visit Fee - £24.50

Second Visit Fee - £18.00

Levy Fee - £54.00

Total Amount Now Due - £1128.39

 

THE INVENTORY TO WHICH THIS NOTICE REFERS

"Silver *unintelligible squiggles*

PK53 ***

or *another unintelligible squiggle*

front of prop."

 

TAKE NOTICE THAT THE SAID GOODS AND CHATTELS HAVE BEEN IMPOUNDED ON THE PREMISES AND ARE NOW IN THE CUSTODY OF THE LAW. THE GOODS AND CHATTELS MAY NOT BE REMOVED WITHOUT OUR AUTHORISATION.

 

I certify that this Notice of Seizure of goods and inventory has been explained to the recipient by me and/or left at the premises.

 

Dated this 11th day of July 2013

 

Signed by bailiff

Couple of observations here:

1) I didn't receive a copy of this levy notice on the day it was made out and therefore the last statement certifying that I was made aware of this levy is a complete fabrication.

2) The vehicle in question actually belongs to a neighbour of mine who lives across the street!

 

Not to mention the apparent low value cost the bailiff has valuated it at (the vehicle is worth well over £2500.)

 

So, I have drafted a response to them - could someone please take a look at this and let me know if there is something I should be adding/omitting from this?

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

Many thanks for your prompt response in relation to the proof of bailiff levy.

In relation to your response below, it seems your enforcement officer -***** , performed a levy on 11th July 2013 on a vehicle situated outside my property bearing registration number PK53 ***.

I CAN CONFIRM THAT I HAVE NOT AT ANY TIME OWNED THAT VEHICLE.

I can only assume that on the said date, the agent in question has randomly selected a vehicle close to my premises to imply that I owned said vehicle in order to serve his purpose. Your officer at such time (or yourselves since) will have likely had facilities to perform a rudimentary check in order to ascertain ownership of the said vehicle and even if not, you had no other reason at the time to believe that the vehicle in question did indeed belong to myself.

By still implying that I am the owner of the above vehicle (in order to perform a chargeable levy) is to do so while either knowing or believing that such a fact is, or might be untrue or misleading. Such an action is a false misrepresentation made in an attempt to procure a financial gain for yourselves, and so a criminal offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006;

"2 Fraud by false representation

(1)A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a)dishonestly makes a false representation, and

(b)intends, by making the representation—

(i)to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

 

(2)A representation is false if—

(a)it is untrue or misleading, and

(b)the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading."

Also I would like to bring to your attention the Current Regulation of Bailiffs issued by the House Of Commons (document SN/HA/4103) on 26th March 2013, in particular section 3.4 - How Bailiff's enter the debtor's premises and seize goods:

 

"A bailiff cannot seize goods belonging to anyone other than the person named on the distress warrant. For example, the bailiff cannot take goods which belong to the defendant's partner. A bailiff cannot seize goods subject to a hire purchase or rental agreement (however, goods on credit sale can be seized because they are deemed to belong to the debtor)."

 

Regarding your assertion that you have contacted your client -*** Council, who you say has confirmed that I am liable for the fees;*** Council were probably unaware at the time of making such a statement that your fees were derived as a direct result of unlawful misrepresentations on your companies behalf. I have copied this communication to the relevant department at *** Council, whereon I am sure you find find they assert otherwise. I have also copied in my local Councillor and the complaints division of the regulatory body for bailiffs into this correspondence as I am sure they will be interested to hear how individuals from your company are acting with misrepresentation and therefore fraudulently.

 

I look forward to your response.

 

Yours faithfully,

Does this look okay? Also would I be right in thinking that seeing as this is now a criminal offence I have every right to pursue a counter claim against them for damages?

 

Thanks guys.

[guitarist27]

Okay so I have emailed Phoenix with the above response - I have not copied in my local councillor (whom I have dealt with previously and was clearly misinformed) but I have also copied in the Chief Executive for the council also, adding that I felt it necessary to inform him of any possible unlawful actions executed by the council's agents as, it is the council's legal obligation to ensure that any parties acting on behalf of the council, do so to guidelines and regulation set out by government.

 

I'll post back when I get a response from either the council or Phoenix

[tomtubby]

I am sorry to be critical but you have made some significant errors and these are as follows:

 

When you made a payment arrangement you should have at all time avoided making such a arrangement over a mobile phone with a bailiff. There is NO PROOF at all as to what was agreed. If you have no other means of making an arrangement then at the very least send an email to outline the terms as you understand them.

 

Next...you should NOT be writing to Phoenix. Instead, you should be writing a letter to the LOCAL AUTHORITY and this should be headed Formal Complaint and a COPY of the letter should be sent to Phoenix.

 

By marking the letter as "Formal Complaint" then if you are unhappy with the response you can request that it be reviewed as a Stage Two complaint and if unresolved at this stage, then you can ask for the case to be considered by the Local Government Ombudsman.

 

Lastly, I would never suggest at this stage making an allegation of fraud. Instead, you should be relying upon the LGO report against Blaby District Council and stating to the COUNCIL that sufficient time has now elapsed for their "agent" to have carried out a DVLA check and accordingly, the levy and all fees associated with the levy should be immediately removed.

 

Sorry, final point.......a bailiff cannot charge an "attending to remove" fee to an account unless there is a prior valid levy in place. Charging such as fee appears to have quickly become "industry practice". This does NOT mean that it is legal !!! In fact....far from it !!!!

[guitarist27]

Okay so I wrote a formal letter of complaint following tomtubby's advice, here is what I wrote:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

FORMAL COMPLAINT

 

I write to you with regards to my council tax account ________ and wish to make a formal complaint against the agents you have appointed to collect the amount outstanding on your behalf.

 

As stated in my previous correspondence, Mr. Pxxxx Mxxxxx visited my property acting as a bailiff for your agent on 11/7/2013. It has become apparent that when he visited my property, it was to enforce a levy fee upon my account and he in fact did so on a vehicle bearing registration PK53 *** which was situated close to my property. As stated in my previous correspondence, I have never owned this vehicle.

 

May I refer to the LGO report against Blaby District Council; as the levy fee was applied to my account a little under two months ago, sufficient time has now elapsed for your agent, Phoenix Commercial Collections, to have carried out sufficient checks, to ascertain the relevant ownership information from the DVLA and accordingly, the levy fee and all fees associated with this levy fee should be removed immediately from my account. Furthermore, referring to your agent's "Notice of Removal" letter which I received on 27th August 2013 - a bailiff cannot charge a Notice of Removal fee unless there is a valid levy in place. Due to these facts, I wish to make a stage one formal complaint as you have a legal obligation to ensure your agents are following guidelines and regulations in a lawful manner. This problem has caused me undue stress which at this time is not needed due to my grandfather being terminally ill.

 

Many thanks for your time and if you have any questions please feel free to get in touch. I look forward to your acknowledgement of this letter within 2 working days and your response with a satisfactory resolution outlined within 15 working days.

 

Your sincerely,

 

So I got a reply to this around 9 days later (no acknowledgement letter in between though)

 

Dear __________

 

Council Tax Liability - Account Reference _________

Re: My address

 

Thank you for your letter dated 7th September 2013

 

As stated by my colleagues letter of 5th September 2013, if you have any concerns regarding the action taken by Phoenix Commercial Collections Ltd, you should raise them directly with Phoenix Commercial Collections Ltd. If you are unsatisfied with their response, you can ask us to investigate your case further.

 

As you have not made a formal complaint to our agents and they have not had an opportunity to either investigate or respond, I am referring you back to them.

 

Phoenix Commercial can be contacted at:

 

Paragon Business Park

Chorley New Road

Bolton

Lancashire

BL6 6HG

 

Yours sincerely

 

This was signed by the recovery service team manager.

 

So what next - do I pursue the complaint further with the council or do I complain now to Phoenix? So far I have had no correspondence with Phoenix (apart from the last time I emailed them at the beginning of September.) I am presuming that the letter sent by the council was a plot for me to contact the bailiffs so they can then try to visit my property to make a lawful WPO? My next payment to Phoenix is going to be due on the 25th (I have however cancelled this SO and have set up a SO with the council) so if someone could respond with what to do next before that date, it will obviously save a lot of aggro when they realiise that they're not getting paid directly anymore.

 

Cheers guys

Edited September 19, 2013 by ploddertom
Removed Bailiff name

[guitarist27]

Bump

[hallowitch]

I would send a reply along the lies of

 

 

Dear Sir

 

R.E your e-mail dated xxxx

 

Please confirm that you are refusing to investigate my formal complaint dated xxxxx the reason for this refusal being I have not made a formal complaint to your agent Phoenix regarding the fees charged by their bailiffs regarding the levy on vehicle Reg xxxx and a subsequent attendance to remove charged because of said levy

 

 

Please confirm it is xxx councils policy not to investigate formal complaints against contactor's unless the debtor makes a formal complaint to the said contractor first

please provide me with a copy of you corporate compliant procedure

 

I believe before I can complain to the local government ombudsman I have to go through the local authority's complaint's procedure

Please note on receipt of your e-mail confirming you are refusing to investigate my formal complaint this will be my next course action

[hallowitch]

http://www.lgo.org.uk/complaints-about-bailiffs/

 

 

How do I complain?

 

• You should normally complain to the council first. Councils often have more than one stage in their complaints procedure and you will usually have to complete all stages before we will look at your complaint.
  

[guitarist27]

Done, I have reiterated my points about why I am complaining and asked them to confirm the above information is true as it doesn't state in their complaints procedure that I must make a formal complaint with the offending agent first.

 

I have given them 15 working days to respond and have advised them that upon receipt of the above confirmation, my next course of action will be to make an official complaint to the local ombudsman.

 

I'll let you know how I get on and if I need any further advice.

[guitarist27]

Update to this - I received a letter back from Liberata today in relation to my stage two formal complaint, here is the letter outlined:

 

Dear _________

 

Thank you for your letter dated 25th September 2013.

 

As I explained in my previous letter any formal complaint should be made, in the first instance, to our agents to allow them to investigate and respond.

 

I have now forwarded your letter to Phoenix Commercial and they will respond to you directly. If you remain unsatisfied on receipt of their reply, please do not hesitate to contact us outlining why.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

What next? Is this the council taking action? Do I just sit this out and let Phoenix respond?

 

Thanks guys

[hallowitch]

Phone or e-mail the LGO and tell the you have been trying to make a formal complaint to your council regarding bailiff fees e.c.t.for approximately 3 weeks and they refuse to accept or deal with your complaint because you have not complained to the bailiff firm and they are passing all formal complaint letters addressed to the council over to the bailiff firm to deal will

 

Tell them you initially tied to sort it out with the bailiff firm but they were unhelpful and obstructive hence the reason for the formal complaint to the council

 

ask them what you should do next

 

EDIT you may want to add that its the councils back office providers Liberata that are refusing you formal complaint and passing it over

 

http://www.lgo.org.uk/

Edited October 3, 2013 by hallowitch

[guitarist27]

Done Hallowitch. I rang the LGO today and informed them what the council have said in their reply letters to my formal complaints, they advised that I should contact the council again, and inform them that I have an LGO complaint reference number and that the LGO has advised that it is the council's responsibility to follow up the complaints as it is them who is responsible for the actions of the Bailiffs.

 

So I contacted the council whilst I was on my lunch break, using work's phone so I could record the conversation, I informed them of this when I spoke to I presume, a customer services advisor. After around 5-10 minutes of discussion with her, she put me through to the woman who wrote the reply letter. The woman basically said that no action would be taken until Phoenix had a chance to respond. I advised her what the LGO had told me and she said "The LGO would want you to follow this procedure also!" I then advised her that I wasn't happy with the council's response so I wanted to further the complaint to stage three to be investigated by the Chairman of the council, she told me to put this in writing (bearing in mind that on the council's website it stated that I can make complaints via email, phone, fax or letter.) She then went on to say that even if I did take it a stage further, she would make sure that the complaint wasn't looked into until Phoenix had responded!

 

So, I have contacted the LGO again, and advised them of what the council have said. He has lodged a formal complaint with the LGO and said that he would send the complaint directly to the council to look at immediately.

 

So I guess now it is a waiting game - it can take up to 12 weeks if I remember for the LGO to investigate so I guess I'll just bide my time until this is done. Looks like it is coming to a head though and finally I will have the pesky bailiffs off my back and have the unlawful fee's refunded (along with some compensation as well with the sounds of things!)

 

Thanks for everyone's help on this, you have all been really helpful and I am so grateful. Where can I make a donation to the site for my way of saying thanks?

[ploddertom]

 

Thanks for everyone's help on this, you have all been really helpful and I am so grateful. Where can I make a donation to the site for my way of saying thanks?

 

 

There's a link at the end of my signature or scroll further down the page.

[guitarist27]

Donated...ededed!!!11one