Help please statutory demand & european enforcement order / Bankruptcy Petition now served

[djali]

Hi

i am a new user

 

,last month i received a statutory demand, i applied for it to be set aside.

 

I have been given a court date for 22nd of august,

I need help on how to get this set aside,

 

this is from a french judgement, i lost the case in france, i never understood what even happened.

 

But to cut a long story short we had a charge placed on our property in france.

We found it dificult to sell and eventually they told us it would go to auction the amount on the valuation was stupid.

We drastically cut the price and managed to find a buyer, they agreed to the sale.

 

They have now come on to us and say there is a shortfall and interest and costs.

 

They also say they have a european enforcement order,

we have been given no details of this from England or France.

 

Does anyone know if we would be given details from the court?

 

the first thing we knew was the statutory demand landing on the doorstep,

it was served by a bailiff but we were overseas at the time.

 

Any help please.

[sequenci]

The order is likely to have originated in france.

 

Do you have assets (e.g. a property) in England?

 

It's certainly possible for cross-border insolvency action to happen, provisions have been afforded for this under the Insolvency Act 1986.

[djali]

Hi yes we have assets,would we not be notified by the french courts if the order was granted?

[unclebulgaria67]

The EEO is issued where the debt issue is uncontested. You need to find out where the EEO was granted and submit the relevant application for the court to set this aside, as you did not receive any paperwork from the court, even though the claimant had your UK address.

[djali]

Hi we did contest the original case,can we ask the UK solicitor to show us these documents.Its a firm from London.Also the courts in France did have our UK address.We don't believe they have this document is there a way to find out.Many thanks.

[unclebulgaria67]

Hi we did contest the original case,can we ask the UK solicitor to show us these documents.Its a firm from London.Also the courts in France did have our UK address.We don't believe they have this document is there a way to find out.Many thanks.

 

Yes make a formal request for copies of documents by recorded delivery letter.

[steampowered]

Please review CPR 74.31 and the following sections: http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part74#IDAUU3HC

 

I don't know how you would get a copy of the EEO itself. For the EEO to be much use to them in England they would need to lodge various documents with the English court ... and you could then get a copy of those documents from the court file.

 

My understanding is that EEO are only available in uncontested claims. You might fall into that category if there were legal proceedings in France which you don't know about.

 

I think the first thing is to write to the other side stating that you have never received a copy of the alleged EEO or any court documents underlying it, and asking for a copy. State that you will draw the court's attention to that letter when seeking costs at the litigant in person rate in relation to your application to set aside the SD.

[djali]

statutory demand and european enforcement order

Hi this is urgent can anyone help me.

Hearing in one week,i am starting to panic.

I did post a short version of this a few weeks ago.

 

last month i recieved a statutory demand, i applied for it to be set aside.

 

I have been given a court date for 22nd of august,

I need help on how to get this set aside,

 

this is from a french judgement, i lost the case in france, i never understood what even happened.

 

But to cut a long story short we had a charge placed on our property in france.

We found it dificult to sell and eventualy they told us it would go to auction the amount on the valuation was stupid.

So we drasticly cut the price and managed to find a buyer, they agreed to the sale.

 

They have now come on to us and say there is a shortfall and interest and costs.

 

They also say they have a european enforcement order,

we have been given no details of this from England or France.

 

This debt is from june 2008 we have been sent no documents from england.

 

the first thing we knew was the statutory demand landing on the doorstep,

it was served by a bailiff but we were overseas at the time.

 

We have claimed to have this set aside on the following grounds.

There is no uk court order.

we made offers to pay in france.

They say this is a personal loan but we have no documents.

We dont believe the eeo is registered in the uk courts.

The interest rate keeps changing.

 

I need to know how to word this so it sounds right,the demand has been sent to me and my husband 2 hearings for the same amount.

We do own our house and there is enough eguity.

I am in a real panic, hearing is next week i have never done anything like this.

 

I dont know anything else i can do, can anyone please help i dont know how to word this so it sounds right. They will be represented by a law firm that served the demand

and we will be out of our depths i dont have money for a law firm.

 

Can anyone please help,thank you.

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?398550-Help-please-statutory-demand-and-european-enforcement-order

 

This is your original thread. I am wondering if it would be worth merging the two so that people have the complete history of the claim.

 

I will also alert site team for you.

[djali]

Thank you i dont think i know how to work this properly,i have tried to put more information on the thread, thought it would be best to start again.

Thanks for your help.

[citizenB]

I have alerted site team. I am sure they will be with you as soon as they can

[djali]

Hi can anyone help.

Can a European enforcement order be used for bankruptcy proceedings.

I E a statutory demand I have been told it can't be used for this.

Can anyone confirm this.

[unclebulgaria67]

Hi can anyone help.

Can a European enforcement order be used for bankruptcy proceedings.

I E a statutory demand I have been told it can't be used for this.

Can anyone confirm this.

 

An EEO is only a basic court claim for what is considered an undisputed claim. It has nothing to do with bankruptcy.

 

If a creditor wants to make you bankrupt they can apply to the court in the country where the debt is owed, even if you are absent (provided they follow the relevant rules) and then they can attempt to enforce in a court where you are resident. Not very likely unless the amount owed makes it worth it and they have found that you own assets which could be sold in order to pay them.

[djali]

Hi thanks for your reply,

 

I have been served a statutory demand from a French debt,

with a European enforcement order and a copy of the French court order.

 

Can I contest it on the grounds that the EEO as not been registered in the UK.

 

Or I have been told they can't use it in a stutory demand until they receive a UK court order.

 

I am very confused any help please.

[dx100uk]

I think they must have uk court involvement yes

 

who served the SD?

 

dx

[steampowered]

After giving this some thought, I think you need to treat this like setting aside any other statutory demand.

 

There may be ways of attacking the validity of the EEO or any failure by the other side to properly register it in England & Wales (see http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part74#IDAUU3HC). However, you are not in a position to assess this until you have the documents. It is for the creditor to prove that they have an enforceable debt.

 

 

I suggest spending a couple of hours browsing through CAG using the search function. There are lots and lots of success stories of people setting aside SDs. Let us know what further help you need.

 

Whether this will be the end of the matter is another issue. Do you think there might be a genuine debt here? If so, I would write a letter to the creditor asking for a copy of the relevant documents. If the creditor proves its claim you can then think about making a payment offer, but let them produce the paperwork first.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The EU EO is used to enforce a domestic courts judgement anywhere in the EU.

A judge make an order in the UK against an absentee for an example an ex pat living I Spain the EU order is used to enforce there.

[djali]

Thanks for your reply

We have now been sent a copy of the EEO

It just looks like something downloaded from the internet,

there has been no contact with the UK courts.

 

This is the first time I've seen this document should I have been served this before I got the statutory demand.

 

The amount on the EEO is the original amount before the sale of the property in France.

It also has the French address on it.

The date on the EEO is may 2013 the property was sold in Nov 2012.

The hearing to set aside is this Thur.

I still find all this EEO confusing any other help would be appreciated.

Starting to panic now.

 

I lost a case in France a charged was placed on my French property this has now been sold with the permission of the creditor.

I received no other court documents in the UK just the statutory demand.

 

Should I have been served the EEO before the statutory demand.

 

I have also been told the EEO can not be used for bankruptcy proceedings.

 

Any help please we have applied for set aside on these grounds hearing is next week.

The EEO was served by a law firm in London.

[steampowered]

I would request clarification of whether the EEO has been lodged with the English courts and, if so, a copy of the court application. This is required by CPR 74.31 (see the link I posted above). You should make yourself familiar with this part of the CPR and bring a copy along with you to the hearing.

 

At this stage you are just making them go through hoops. It is important to think long-term. If they do have an EEO, then ultimately they will be able to enforce that in England one way or another. Forcing them to go through the registration process will delay matters but will not get rid of the issue.

 

EEOs are only supposed to be granted where the debt is uncontested. Most likely the debt was deemed uncontested because you did not file a Defence in France, and therefore default judgment was awarded. I assume you never received the court papers.

 

My understanding is that the English courts are not permitted to re-examine the circumstances behind the EEO, since the purpose of the EEO Regulations and other similar Regulations in this area is to ensure that judgments in one EU member state are enforceable in other member states. Matters relating to real estate are generally considered to be in the exclusive jurisdiction of the relevant EU member state (i.e. if you have a dispute about French land it can only be litigated in France). It will therefore be difficult to re-litigate the underlying judgment in England.

 

If you feel the EEO is unfair, then there will be a system for reviewing it (this is required by the Regulation - see Article 19). http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004R0805:EN:HTML. The Regulation is very clear that "Under no circumstances may the judgment or its certification as a European Enforcement Order be reviewed as to their substance in the Member State of enforcement." If you want to contest the EEO that must be done in France, not England. The only bit that comes under English law will be how the EEO is enforced.

 

So, what to do if you cannot afford a lawyer in France to contest the EEO? I guess you can proceed with the set-aside application for now. Longer-term you can think about agreeing a payment plan. I am not 100% sure but I believe you could ask the court to set monthly payments towards the judgment using form N245.

[AndyOrch]

Threads merged ...please do not start new threads on the same matter.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[djali]

Any help please we have been served a bankruptcy petition.

We have to attend court on the 28th Nov.

 

This is for a judgement obtained in France they had a charge on our property in france they agreed we could sell.

 

We believed this was the end.

But we recieved a statutory demand

 

We tried to have this set aside on the grounds that the judgement was not registered in the UK I don't know why but this was rejected.

The amount they are claiming is mostly interest.

 

We dispute the amount of interest.We have also tried to negotiate but they just reject everything.

The amount is 80,000 of which £50,000 is interest we offered £800 a month rejected.

 

Then we offered £20,000 now and £30,000 in the year.

They won't listen to anything we have now sold our property and waiting completion.

But they won't withdraw the petition.

 

Do you think a judge will think any of this fair.

We still dispute the amount of interest and the judgement as still not been registered in the UK.

Any advice please before we attend court or anything else we can do.

[citizenB]

djali, I have merged this latest question to the original thread so all the information is in on place.

[unclebulgaria67]

You must seek proper legal advice from a Solicitor who deals with such cross border debts and bankruptcy.

There is too much at stake.

 

http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/find-a-solicitor/help/

 

If you get made bankrupt,

once the insolvency people get hold of this,

it is going to cost you a lot more than what the creditors are currently seeking.

Don't try to deal with this yourself.

Find a Solicitors with the experience to deal with this.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I agree this must be dealt with by an expert an EEO is hard to fight so you need to have a well structure reaponse ready.

[steampowered]

Was there a set-aside hearing? Did you attend it? What did the judge say?