Vanquis ROP

[Camaro3]

Hi Guys, I could do with some advice please. I apologise now, this is long winded!!

 

 

After having a card for several years, I ran into financial difficulties & couldn't keep up repayments,

 

I tried to come to an arrangement, (I also asked for ROP to be stopped, which they did not do!).

 

In January 2012 I sent a SAR which came back along with a letter about ROP stating I had agreed to it & they record phone calls etc

& if I was not satisfied, complain to FOS within 6 months.

 

I have been trying to get copies of phone calls (to no avail) & finally went to FOS this year and complained that Vanquis miis sold ROP, or at least broke their terms & conditions.

 

The reason for this is that in T&C's it states that ROP is charged as a transaction & taken from available credit.

But as I had gone over my limit, I had no available credit, so how could they charging me for ROP?

 

FOS have sided with Vanquis, they say Vanquis complained that I did not go to FOS within 6 months of January 2012,

but as I was not making a complaint last year, why should I?

 

The upshot of this is I am now looking at court action and would appreciate any advice in how to go to court, or should I appeal to FOS?

 

 

Many thanks

 

 

James

[ims21]

Did you tell fos that at the time in 2012 you were not making a compliant but just information gathering?

 

Did you send them copies of your correspondence?

[Camaro3]

Hi ims, yes to all, they even noted in their rejection that I had written to Vanquis in December 2012 stating that in January I was not making a complaint, mearly asking for information including ROP by way of an SAR.

[ims21]

I wonder if in the first instance you escalate this within fos and see what they say.

 

Failing that it would seem that court is the only option for you.

 

We can help with that but try with fos again and make it clear that there was no complaint in 2012 so there cannot be any six month timescale for referral to fos from that initial fact finding mission.

[Camaro3]

Thanks ims, will try.

[filrobbo]

Its not the first time FOS as sided with the banks or credit card companey,when it's a clear mis selling of insurance or bank charges or even just when mistreated by them.

[Camaro3]

Sorry to be a pain ims, just re-reading through rejection letter from FOS. They say that Vanquis assumed that I had made a complaint in January 2012 and I should have acted on the reply from Vanquis. Does anyone know if asking for a Subject Access Requst would be classed as a complaint against a company or is it just a request for information held? Vanquis are relying on the ROP letter, saying that it was their final response.

[ims21]

A Subject Access Request is purely a request for information.

 

It is not for Vanquis to assume it is a complaint and of they do so then that is their issue.

 

Ask fos why the lender issued a response to a complaint when no complaint had ever been lodged. Also point out to fos that it is not for the lender to assume that a SAR is a complaint when it is clearly not.

 

If need be escalate this to an ombudsman.

[Camaro3]

Thanks once again ims, back to FOS we go.

[ims21]

[Camaro3]

Hi all, took the bull by the horns this morning, so I rang the Information Commissioner, who confirmed that a Subject Access Request is a right under the Data Protection Act and not a complaint. The very helpfull lady said if I drop her a email, she will reply stating what we discussed.

 

So, I phone th FOS and explained all of the above. The FOS lady said because Vanquis replied calling it a complaint, I should have written back within 6 months saying it was not. She asked me to send all information from ICO but, she did not feel inclined to change her decision. I will email all letters + my view etc, give it a couple of weeks and see what happens, although I'm not holding out any hope. I suspect the FOS don't want this case.

[filrobbo]

That's about rite for the FOS

[Camaro3]

Just got my final response from FOS, they have sided with Vanquis. They have not looked at the merits of the case just the fact that Vanquis said I made a complaint when all I did was ask for a SAR and did not contact FOS within 6 months. So....

Does anyone know if I can start a new complaint with Vanquis? My reasoning is as follows:

When I first contacted Vanquis, I stated that they charged me for ROP after my account went over it's limit, (in the t&c's it states your account has to be in good order to use ROP ie not over it's limit). I did not find out untill later that their terms & conditions state that ROP is charged as a transaction and taken from available credit. Because I was over my limit, there was no available credit, therfore, in my mind, they broke their own terms & conditions.

[Camaro3]

Anyone?

[ims21]

Well you could have it escalated within fos and get an ombudsman to review it.

 

If Vanquis have said no already, for ROP I think it unlikely they will change their stance.

 

The only other option would be to sue them in court where the onus of proof will be on you as the claimant.

[Camaro3]

Hi ims, I'm probably being a bit thick here. As I understand it if the FOS review an ombudsmans decision, they cannot change the outcome so....

Vanquis have supplied me with a list of all transactions on the account not duplicate statements. If I take the court route, do I ask for duplicate statements from Vanquis before starting action or would Vanquis have to supply these as evidence if going to court?

[ims21]

As I understand it if the fosicon review an ombudsmans decision, they cannot change the outcome so....

 

Has the case actually been dealt with by an ombudsman or just an adjudicator. If the latter you can ask for an ombudsman to review it. They may not find in your favour but at least you will have tried.

 

As far as evidence in court goes, you don't necessarily need copy statements but you would need evidence that ROP was paid/applied to the account.

 

You will also have to prove that the product was mis-sold (civil burden on the balance of probability).

[Camaro3]

Hi ins, yes the case has been looked at by an ombudsman & rejected. I'm now considering just going after them for the ROP levied after I went over my credit limit. What happened was they continued to apply ROP + interest which put me further over my limit. They only stopped the ROP after 1st credit chased me for the debt. I told them that the debt was not reducing & lo & behold Vanquis stopped charging for ROP.

[Camaro3]

Hi Ims, I have tried a new tack & sent Vanquis a new complaint. I have dropped the mis-selling part and concentrated on the applying of ROP when my account was over limit (i.e. them breaking their terms & conditions). I received the usual "we have received your complaint and have 56 days to investigate", but, (and I am assuming it's 56 calendar days) are up and no reply.

I am going to send them a Letter Before Action giving them 14 days to reply or I will commence legal action. If it goes to court, does the original amount of refund stand (from when the complaint was sent?) or does the interest keep accruing until the court date? and do I need to inform them of this?

[ims21]

The interest keeps accruing until you issue in court. Your LBA should include an up to date spreadsheet showing the amount and you should also mention the amounts in the LBA.

[Camaro3]

Thanks, ims will get writing.

[Camaro3]

Hi ims,

Sorry, this is going to be a long one!

 

I have received a reply from Vanquis, they have offered me a partial refund without interest.

 

They state that the terms & conditions I mention were on their website, but have now been updated.

 

The t's & c's on the website were not the t's & c's for my account when it was running,

and aslo the t's & c's on their website do not form part of any contract with a customer.

 

They admit that when I got into financial difficulties and contacted them, it was their policy to keep the ROP in place.

This has now been amended & they now offer customers the chance to cancel ROP.

 

They also state that ROP is applied to the account as a purchase transaction & will reduce any available credit but does not sit on top of the balance.

 

My way of thinking is that if my account is over it's limit there is no available credit therefore they cannot apply a purchase transaction.

 

I'm going to write back and demand my original terms & conditions (which they never supplied in my SAR)

& if they do not comply start legal Proceedings.

 

Any thoughts?

[dx100uk]

cann we see this letter please:

 

**you can post up images/letters by this method immediately..you don't need 10 posts**

.

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

.

************************* ************************* *******

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

************************* ************************* ***********

.

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or http://www.freepdfconvert.com/

or

use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice DD-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

...

YOU DONT have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box..just upload it ..job done

.

dx

[Camaro3]

Hi Dx, Hope I've done this right!

I've uploaded their reply and also a pdf showing "about ROP" & also "pre-Contract Information"

 

They say this was different to the contract I signed up for, but when I asked for a SAR, they never sent this information.

 

The latest info on their website is similar to the files attached.

[dx100uk]

right so now you need the statement to prove no int was charged from xxx point.

 

dx