Claiming PPi if it has been used?

[mccgirls]

My partner had two loans, one with HSBC the other with beneficial finance and both had PPi's. Both have been paid of in full and monthly payments stuck to.

 

In 2009 my partner lost his job and so claimed on these two policies, however when they were sold to him, he was in full time employment so would have received sick pay and when made redundant could have used his redundancy pay to cover payments but obviously as he had these policies he claimed on them.

 

When he took out the policies he was told it would increase his chances for being accepted for the loan and so I believe they have been mis sold?

 

My question is, can he re claim ? also they were front loaded and interest charged on top so the actual amount he repaid on these loans for the ppi and high interest is tripple what the origional loan was so can he claim back any of the interest? He was also charged odd fees over the years for changing direct debit dates.

 

Any advice appreciated

[citizenB]

It is my understanding that yes - you can indeed make a mis sold claim even if there has been a claim made on the policy.

 

I will alert the PPI guys for you for further information/advice.

[ims21]

Hi

 

Dropping in as requested.

 

In essence yes you can reclaim for the mis-sold policies. However, it will only be worth doing so if the amount you are going to get back under a reclaim is greater than the amount which has been paid out under the policy terms.

 

Have you got all of the paperwork for these loans i.e. the agreements and record of payments?

 

Also have a read of No.1 in my signature below.

[ims21]

I have also moved your thread to the PPI forum

[mccgirls]

Hi and thank you for the quick replies.

He has all the origional contracts with amounts being paid in cost and charges for the PPI

so this week end we are going to work through them and figure out the amount paid and amount claimed and will let you know.

 

Can I just clarify please.

 

When you say it would only be worth doing if the reclaim is larger than the amount claimed when he was unemployed which I think it will be does

 

this take into account the interest they would have to pay on top or only the origional amount?

[ims21]

Yes you should get back the premiums paid and the associated interest plus 8% compensatory interest.

 

The method of calculation is explained in the item I linked you to at No.1 in my signature.

 

So the first step is to find out what you would be due back including all interest. You then deduct from that figure what you have received by way of pay outs under the terms of the policy.

 

If the result of that is in your favour then a reclaim is worth going for, if it isn't in your favour but in the bank's favour then it is not worth reclaiming because the benefit you received is greater than you would be claiming back.

[dx100uk]

oooh

hfc in sheeps clothing

this claim will be rather large I bet!

 

dx

[mccgirls]

Thank you for the replies.......so this is going to be rather long so please, please bear with me!! I have spent all afternoon going through the details and a pattern has certainly emerged. There are three seperate leders involved and I will deal with them in the following order: Please note these are not mine but my partners of 6 years: he knows obviously i am dealing with this matter but majority date back to before we were together:

1: Beneficial finance - in total 6 loans - I am making up a name for these ACCUMALATIVE LOANS

2: HSBC Loan

3: Marbles (previously beneficial finance credit card)

 

Other half is a hoarder and keeps everything so following info is from the origional agreements and some from statements. All amounts quoted are loan including interest, PPi including interest and other relevant info:

 

Loan 1: Taken out dec 04: loan:£1280 PPI £133 over 18 months. No claims but settled early by loan 2 in June 05

 

Loan 2: taken out June 05: Loan £4400 PPI £995 over 48 months. No claims and settled early by loan 4 (I think!!)

 

Loan 3: Taken out Dec 05: Loan £2394 PPI £324 over 36 months No claims and settled early by loan 4 ( I think!)

 

Loan 4: Taken out July 06: Loan £13350 PPi £4200 over 66 months No claims and settled by early loan 6

 

Loan 5: Taken out March 07: Loan £1500 PPI £300 over 36 months No claims settled early by Loan 6

 

Loan 6: Taken out May 07: Loan £11000 PPI £7700 over 72 months. Just finished paying of this loan but was unemployed and think claimed £3500 on this final loan over that period (not sure of this exact amount as believe it or not can't find those statements but have all rest, guess they went somewhere for confirmation of payment|!!)

 

Before I move on to the other two I have to say this has been a real revelation for me working through these documents, do you see the pattern emerging?? you would have to know the background but this stinks of praying on the vulnerable as my other half was in a very emotional state at the time having just divorced, trying to pay of his ex wife and take care of his children. Every 6 months they piled on the pressure and he saw the small amount of extra money in his pocket!! Really i feel nauseated by it all. You would not believe the total amout paid to this company (actually you probably would, as Im sure you see it all on here) but for the amount he ended up with in his pocket he has paid 4x that amount back and that is taking in to account their so called early repayment via another loan due to interest charges on origional loan and the PPI!! Anyway on to number 2 and 3.

 

2: HSBC Loan: Taken out October 07: Loan £12400 PPI £2400 over 37 months settled in Oct 10 but claimed whilst unemployed £1100

 

3: Marbles credit card origionally Beneficial finance credit card taken out in 2004: This is a hard one to calculate the amount of PPi paid as I have a mixture of statements dating back to Jan 2005 and the origional letter of when the PPi commenced in Dec 04. Obviously amount paid depends on amount outstanding but this has been in place until I got him to cancel it about 3 months ago and was never claimed on when he was out of work as he just paid the min balance. As a rough guide average monthly payments over the period of time would be £3 so nothing major but adds up over 8 1/2 years.

 

This is it.......where do I go?? really not sure. As i said earlier they were definately mis sold, he was told every time it would increase his chances of being accepted for the loan despite having a good job with sick pay, redunadancy entitlement etc. i am wondering should I use a company or go it alone?

I used stake your claim for a recent claim I put in myself against PPi with HSBC and it appeared I got 100% interest on origional amount they deemed I had paid but obviously the company took their cut and I don't really know the amout I paid in the first place. Would it add more clout using an official company or do i go it alone?

Will company 1 be difficult due to how many loans there are?? Im guessing this was their normal "business development strategy" so probably no surprise for them but certaily for me and other half!!

 

Appreciate and thank you for any help!!

[ims21]

OK first off DO NOT USE A CLAIMS COMPANY. They can do nothing that you cannot do for yourself and they have no more clout than you do. In fact you will probably push harder than a CMC ever will. They are waste of time and money.

 

Now, this is going to be easier if you break all of this into three threads otherwise it is going to get very complicated.

 

Use this thread for the 6 beneficial loans.

 

Start two new threads in the PPI forum, one each for the HSBC loan and the credit card.

 

What you will have here on the six Beneficial loans is rolled over PPI. This is where each of the later loans is actually paying for PPI in an earlier loan and it will affect the total claim amount.

 

We can get stuck into this over the weekend but can I ask...have you read the item at No.1 in my signature yet?

[mccgirls]

Hi Ims 21,

Yes I read your thread this afternoon before I did anything, I understand now they were all single premium loans and that there is a section in there for this rolled over effect but I didn't really take it all in 1st time,(head kind of swimming a bit with all this)

 

I will set up the other threads for HSBC and the CC now.

Thank you so much!!

[ims21]

Ok so you have a knowledge of the rollover situation.

 

We will have to work through each of the six loans one by one and enter the relevant figures into a spreadsheet and account for any rebates that were given when each loan was settled.

 

You will need these two spreadsheets.

 

StatIntSheet v101.xls

 

LoanAnalysis.xls

 

So, for loan 1, is the £1280 including the PPI or is it £1280 plus the £133 PPI?

[mccgirls]

It is the latter £1280 plus the £133 PPi

[ims21]

Ok so the total loan is £1413 which makes the PPI 9.41% of the total loan.

 

That means that 9.41% of each repayment actually made is for the PPI part of the loan. Work out what 9.41% of the monthly repayment was.

 

Take hold of the statutory interest spreadsheet I gave you and enter that figure in the sheet for each payment actually made. Stop when you have entered the last payment made. Enter the date of the payment and the description, for example "loan 1 PPI". You will then have a list of the PPI payments made on loan 1.

 

Now we need to look at the rollover into loan 2.

 

Was there a rebate of PPI when the loan was settled? It may show as an item on the statements at the time of settlement. If so, how much was the rebate?

[mccgirls]

I dont have any statements for loans 1 to 5 only the origional agreements which is what I am working from.

 

I do have the annual statements for loan 6.

 

What I can tell is that loan 1 ran for 6 months before being settled by loan 2

 

I have worked out the settlement amount plus 6 of the monthly payments

and he has paid the same as what would have been paid under the origional agreement had it run for 18 months,

does that make sense he ended up paying £1450 slightly more??

 

It clearly details on loan 2 the amount to be used to settle loan 1

 

I guess on this one there was no discount?

 

Should I record the lump sum from loan 2 and just apply the 9.41% in he same way I would for the monthly payments?

Thanks for your help. I will start working through this over the weekend and let you know how I get on!!

[ims21]

Ok we can still get the main bones of the claim put together but I would suggest a Subject Access Request (SAR) to the lender to get the statements/transaction history.

 

There is a template for SAR in the CAG library, the link to which is at the top of every CAG page in green. The statutory fee for SAR is £10 and they will have 40 days to comply.

 

We can move on with this over the weekend though.

 

Back in a bit

[ims21]

Do you have any of the settlement figures for these 6 loans?

[mccgirls]

Hi, sorry I didnt get back yesterday.....family business took over.

On each of the loans that are paying of a previous loan there is a split of funds, so each one details

 

amount of money to lender

amount of money to clear previous loan (I guess this is the settlement figure?)

amount for ppi

underneath each figure is interest for each of above

and then a total

The only one im unsure about is loan 4. It has an amount to pay of previous loans but doesnt say which loan agreement numbers I am assuming it paid of loan 2 and 3

 

I will look at requesting th statements today but can I just ask if you think this is really necessary as I have all the origional documents? Also as they date back to 2004, not sure they would have them or is that the point? I am also thinking that the statements for final loan are annual statements and as these loans were swapped after 6 months in the majority of cases I wonder is statements were ever produced??

Once again thank you for your help. I will check in later this afternoon.

[ims21]

If you don't have the transaction history for each account then you won't be able to work out what is due back to you because the amount of redress depends on payments made, the contractual interest on those payments, 8% further compensatory interest and the PPI rebates that were given (if any) when the loans were settled.

 

For the time being you could work on the basis that no rebates were given and make adjustments when you get the SAR response.

 

So with loan 1, after you have done the list of six payments made (as described above), you need to work out what the rollover form loan 1 to loan 2 was.

 

As the PPI on loan 1 was 9.41% of the loan, then 9.41 of the loan 1 settlement is for PPI as well.

 

You know from the loan 2 documentation the amount that was used to settle loan 1 so work out what 9.41% of that figure is and post it up here. We can then start to look at loan 2.

 

If you don't work out broadly what you are due then you are relying on the bank to tell you what the correct figures are. This is a big mistake, especially with an outfit like Beneficial who will take every opportunity to stiiff their victims for everything they can get.

[mccgirls]

Loan two says "you authorise us to deduct from the loan for our own benefits the sum of £977.33 in settlement of account numbered .......... so 9.41% would be £91.97 is that correct??

[ims21]

Yes that's it.

[ims21]

So loan 2 was for £5395 (loan plus the PPI) so the PPI was 18.44% of the loan.

 

Work out what 18.44% of each monthly payment is and list those in the spreadsheet as loan 2 PPI.

 

We also know that £91.97 was also being paid through loan 2 but it was for the PPI on loan 1. £91.97 as a percentage of loan 2 is 1.7%. So again, work out what 1.7% of each repayment was and list that in the spreadsheet as "loan 1 PPI through Loan 2".

 

When you have done that we can work on the loan 2 rollover to loan 3.

[mccgirls]

Looking at loan 1 it says total combined monthly payment of £78.48 and breaks out a payment of £7.33 for the PPi which is slightly less than the 9.41 calculation. Should I use the exact figure in the agreement? Also I have added the £91.97 in to the spreadsheet as settlent figure as payment 7?

[ims21]

No you need to take the £91.97 out of the spreadsheet.

 

Is the interest rate different for the PPI part of the loan?

[mccgirls]

No it is the same 38.4% !!

[ims21]

Ok, if we are only a few pennies different from the £7.33 then it won't make much difference to the end total so don't worry about it.