I'm a mess, please help. Wrongly used husband's season ticket. SWT.

[anon-mum]

On a Saturday I used my husband’s season ticket on a journey into London, using South West Trains.

I know it was wrong and I completely underestimated the consequences. I absolutely didn’t intend to break the law.

This has been an incredible learning curve, not just for me but my friends and family. I'm so angry with myself.

 

Having researched the situation on the internet I’m now a complete mess.

 

I am a professional person, but currently raising my son full time. I’m always very honest and have never done anything like this before.

I received a speeding fine and 3 points in the late 90’s, and that is all.

It was completely out of character, a momentary lapse of judgement at a time I was not myself.

I was very emotional, distracted and running late for a very important occassion.

 

The ticket was confiscated by who I think was a guard/conductor and I was given a receipt.

The guard wasn’t familiar or confident about the process, just said it will be investigated and I’ll get a letter.

Because of my panic, concern and persistence he offered to call a revenue inspector once we reached Waterloo which I accepted.

 

I offered throughout to do whatever I needed to settle the matter there and then,

and even pointed out that I hadn’t therefore got a valid ticket and could I purchase one from them please – which they did for me.

 

My husband didn’t give me permission or know I had his ticket,

I did however call him while with the guard and inspector thinking that his retrospective permission would help.

The very next day he purchased a new ticket, effectively forfeiting the month remaining at a cost of approx £360.

He didn’t bother pursuing a duplicate, with us both accepting that the loss was part of our punishment.

 

I’m looking for any advice available.

 

I understand I need to wait for SWT to write to me.

 

In the meantime I want to prepare while the information is fresh in my mind.

 

I also need to do something for the sake of my health while in this horrible waiting period.

 

I will accept any kind of fine but need to do all I can to avoid a criminal conviction for the sake of my career when I return to work.

 

- Will this affect my husband? It was absolutely my fault not his.

 

- How can I show that I haven’t done this before, or even anything similar.

I have travelled into London only 7 times in the last 12 months and would be able to prove payment on my bank statements for each journey.

 

My husband’s ticket will have only been used on a couple of Saturday’s in the past when he is either working (where he could provide proof),

or where I was with him, or he went to the Rugby or the Olympics so there are reasons for these journeys.

 

- Yes I had his ticket with me. But how can I show it wasn’t premeditated?

Sounds weak, but I was borrowing his leather passholder for my Oyster.

He assumed I’d take his ticket and things out, I didn’t want to in case we lost them.

 

- How much will they care about my emotional state at the time?

 

- Are the details about being late etc worth mentioning or not.

 

- How long will they give me to respond? I will be on holiday for 10 days at the 6 weeks point after the incident and don’t want to miss their letter and their deadline.

 

- Will it help me if I instruct a solicitor?

 

- Is there anything else I should explain? I want to ensure I’m focusing on the right things.

 

 

Thank you in advance

[dx100uk]

if this is the only time

 

then all you can do is await the letter

 

and send the grovelling reply as you've prob already seen in this forum.

 

dx

[Stigy]

Hi,

 

I know it's easy for us to say on a Forum, but try not to worry too much. I do have a few questions for you;

 

1) Were you questioned by the Revenue Inspector under caution? If so, what was asked and what did you reply? (Doesn't matter about the caution too much, but it makes for better evidence should SWT want to proceed to court).

 

2) You seem to be giving your reasons why you did this at the beginning of your post, yet towards the end it appears that it was unintentional...Which is it? Did you admit any form of intent during questioning?

 

3) Was it a Gold Card?

 

4) Did you cooperate fully?

 

SWT may wish to call you and/or your husband in for a second interview so as to ascertain all the facts before they make their final decision as to which course of action they're going to take. Their first letter if they don't want to invite you in for a second interview, will more than likely be ask for you to confirm your details etc, which you should do. I suggest you then apologise and offer to meet any reasonable admin costs incurred, in order to remain out of court. State it was a first offence and you appreciate what you've done is not right, and that you will never do it again. I wouldn't delve in to mental states etc, as that could look like you trying to make excuses for your actions. I would however tell them that it could potentially affect your career should you get a criminal record.

 

If your husband genuinely had no knowledge, he'll be fine, but it's all down to what you said during interview as to how it looks to SWT, therefore the more information you can supply, the better!

 

Also worth bearing in mind that you may hear nothing at all if the report from staff is inadequate or such like, but even if they do write to you, it could take about 8-weeks from the offence date!

Edited June 8, 2013 by Stigy

[Old-CodJA]

Stigy has asked some very relevant questions and at this stage I can only echo his comment that you should certainly try not to let this take over your mind. It is not life-threatening and it is possible that with help, you may be able to avoid the worst case scenario here

 

I certainly hope that during that telephone call you or your husband did not give the impression that he had given permission for you to use the pass as that would complicate things a little..

 

If you can give answers to those questions, we will be able to make suggestions that I hope you will find useful

[anon-mum]

Thank you all for your comments. I very much appreciate your input. It's these 'gaps' that I want to ensure I cover when I do get the opportunity to respond to SWT. However, that said, the whole incident (even the whole day) seems a blur, hence why I did something so stupid.

 

1) Were you questioned by the Revenue Inspector under caution? I definitely wasn't cautioned. I wouldn't even say I was particularly questioned. There were words exchanged between the guard and the inspector that I couldn't hear. The Revenue Inspector asked if my husband knew I had his card, to which I said "Yes" because I had my husband on the phone at the time.

 

At the very beginning, while in a fluster with the guard I said I had picked up my husband's ticket by mistake instead of my own. I quickly gave that up though. I'm a terrible liar. My concern throughout was proving that I hadn't stolen it, that it was my husband's and that I had ID on me to show the same surname. I didn't imply before phoning my husband that he had given me permission. I called him from the train to explain, he was obviously not very happy with me to say the least and said I needed to get it back. Therefore I hoped that his 'retrospective permission' would help. I'm worried that this is going to be hard to explain....that he didn't give me permission in advance, but then did in the hope of getting his ticket back. During the phonecall, my husband only ever spoke to me. Despite me asking, the guard nor RPI would speak to him.

 

2) You seem to be giving your reasons why you did this at the beginning of your post, yet towards the end it appears that it was unintentional...Which is it? Did you admit any form of intent during questioning? It was unintentional. I took the ticket with me, but because it was also in the leather passholder that I put my Oyster card in. I didn't plan in the hours before my journey to use it. It was due to running late that I used it, I was thinking about so many other things, that a ticket was way at the bottom of the list - wrongly I admit. Whether I said anything to the guard or RPI to demonstrate intent....I can't be 100% sure. It wasn't intentional.....so I hope I didn't.

 

3) Was it a Gold Card? No, a 6-monthly ticket, with 1 month remaining on it.

 

4) Did you cooperate fully? Yes I did. I was polite and wasn't rude. However I panicked, was flustered, and extremely worried....with a very angry husband to answer to. For example when I was asked to fill in my contact details on the form, I said I wasn't happy to do that without knowing the full process to get it back. Which is when the guard had to refer to a folded up piece of paper in his office. I also asked to take a photo of the ticket, he said yes and went to get it from his office, then said no. And I asked for his name. I did this thinking the ticket would disappear into an administration oblivion (I think this was my choice of words at the time) so wanted to be able to follow the matter up. Therefore I was persistent, wanting to ensure I did all I could to try and get it back. When I even asked the RPI if he could tell me more, he said it would take maybe a week for their form to reach SWT and then a week for them to write to me. I really hope this is portrayed as 'cooperating fully'.

 

Thank you again. I am trying to keep things in perspective!

[Stigy]

Thank you all for your comments. I very much appreciate your input. It's these 'gaps' that I want to ensure I cover when I do get the opportunity to respond to SWT. However, that said, the whole incident (even the whole day) seems a blur, hence why I did something so stupid.

 

1) Were you questioned by the Revenue Inspector under caution? I definitely wasn't cautioned. I wouldn't even say I was particularly questioned. There were words exchanged between the guard and the inspector that I couldn't hear. The Revenue Inspector asked if my husband knew I had his card, to which I said "Yes" because I had my husband on the phone at the time.

 

At the very beginning, while in a fluster with the guard I said I had picked up my husband's ticket by mistake instead of my own. I quickly gave that up though. I'm a terrible liar. My concern throughout was proving that I hadn't stolen it, that it was my husband's and that I had ID on me to show the same surname. I didn't imply before phoning my husband that he had given me permission. I called him from the train to explain, he was obviously not very happy with me to say the least and said I needed to get it back. Therefore I hoped that his 'retrospective permission' would help. I'm worried that this is going to be hard to explain....that he didn't give me permission in advance, but then did in the hope of getting his ticket back. During the phonecall, my husband only ever spoke to me. Despite me asking, the guard nor RPI would speak to him.

 

2) You seem to be giving your reasons why you did this at the beginning of your post, yet towards the end it appears that it was unintentional...Which is it? Did you admit any form of intent during questioning? It was unintentional. I took the ticket with me, but because it was also in the leather passholder that I put my Oyster card in. I didn't plan in the hours before my journey to use it. It was due to running late that I used it, I was thinking about so many other things, that a ticket was way at the bottom of the list - wrongly I admit. Whether I said anything to the guard or RPI to demonstrate intent....I can't be 100% sure. It wasn't intentional.....so I hope I didn't.

 

3) Was it a Gold Card? No, a 6-monthly ticket, with 1 month remaining on it.

 

4) Did you cooperate fully? Yes I did. I was polite and wasn't rude. However I panicked, was flustered, and extremely worried....with a very angry husband to answer to. For example when I was asked to fill in my contact details on the form, I said I wasn't happy to do that without knowing the full process to get it back. Which is when the guard had to refer to a folded up piece of paper in his office. I also asked to take a photo of the ticket, he said yes and went to get it from his office, then said no. And I asked for his name. I did this thinking the ticket would disappear into an administration oblivion (I think this was my choice of words at the time) so wanted to be able to follow the matter up. Therefore I was persistent, wanting to ensure I did all I could to try and get it back. When I even asked the RPI if he could tell me more, he said it would take maybe a week for their form to reach SWT and then a week for them to write to me. I really hope this is portrayed as 'cooperating fully'.

 

Thank you again. I am trying to keep things in perspective!

 

Hi again,

 

I'm confused here. You said in response 1 of the above quote that you lied about 'accidentally' picking up your husband's ticket, yet in response 2 you explain to the contrary....Which is it? Or am I missing something?

 

You obviously weren't questioned under caution, but that doesn't matter to be honest, although they'll probably be more likely to call you in for an interview this being the case. Unless they have all the info they need.

 

The reason I asked about Gold Cards is that these are often misused in a more professional manner and as such, Train Companies frown upon this obviously, and would be inclined to be less sympathetic if one was involved.

 

Not sure I understand about the 'form' you describe, as I believe SWT don't use a form as such (at the moment) when reporting somebody, unless it's a Penalty Fare or Unpaid Fare Notice. Did you get a copy of said form?

 

I doubt very much you'll hear anything within the 2-weeks suggested as 8-weeks is more the norm, as the TOC's workload in such departments is often extremely heavy! Certainly don't expect SWT to be in touch within 2-weeks, because it won't happen, bearing in mind such mail is usually transferred internally (throughout the company....not the human body, lol) and in true railway fashion it'll probably be static in the RPI's mail room for that 2-weeks alone!

 

You co-operated fully in that you gave your name and address and weren't gobby, so that's fine.

[anon-mum]

Hi

 

Sorry if I'm not explaining this in the best possible way. Essentially it is as per my response to question 2 above. I just wanted to mention on here that when I presented the ticket to the guard and when he told me the photocard isn't me, I briefly said that I have one myself and I've picked my husband's up by mistake. He didn't seem interested in any 'excuse' that I had so I'm not sure if he would have noted it down. But regardless, I didn't persist with this feeling it better to not to lie and make the situation worse. Throughout, all dialogue with both the guard and the inspector was one-way with me being the one asking 90% of the questions about the 'process' and how to get the ticket back.

 

I guess, the best way I can explain: husband didn't give me permission, I didn't intend to use it, being late with queues at the self-serve ticket machine and ticket office used ticket to get through barrier to make the next train, panicked when asked for ticket, showed season ticket, guard points out that ticket and photocard aren't me, I say I have picked up my husband's by mistake, then acknowledge no I know it's not mine but I haven't stole it and I can get my husband on the phone.

 

To answer your other question. The guard filled in a single sheet, one page A4 form. He ticked a box or 2 and asked me to fill in my name, address and telephone number. The bottom section was then ripped off and given to me to act as a receipt. It states my name, the ticket number, the photocard number, ticket expiry, the date it was withdrawn and the authority number of the guard. He then paper-clipped the ticket to his section, said he will send it off and then kept it in his office on the train. While we were talking with the RPI the guard ran back to get the ticket/form to show him, but then took it back to the train.

 

I can't thank you enough for your input. Sorry if I appear inconsistent but I'm not meaning to be. I'm possibly just stating every fact in the hope it will help.

[Stigy]

Hi

 

Sorry if I'm not explaining this in the best possible way. Essentially it is as per my response to question 2 above. I just wanted to mention on here that when I presented the ticket to the guard and when he told me the photocard isn't me, I briefly said that I have one myself and I've picked my husband's up by mistake. He didn't seem interested in any 'excuse' that I had so I'm not sure if he would have noted it down. But regardless, I didn't persist with this feeling it better to not to lie and make the situation worse. Throughout, all dialogue with both the guard and the inspector was one-way with me being the one asking 90% of the questions about the 'process' and how to get the ticket back.

 

I guess, the best way I can explain: husband didn't give me permission, I didn't intend to use it, being late with queues at the self-serve ticket machine and ticket office used ticket to get through barrier to make the next train, panicked when asked for ticket, showed season ticket, guard points out that ticket and photocard aren't me, I say I have picked up my husband's by mistake, then acknowledge no I know it's not mine but I haven't stole it and I can get my husband on the phone.

 

To answer your other question. The guard filled in a single sheet, one page A4 form. He ticked a box or 2 and asked me to fill in my name, address and telephone number. The bottom section was then ripped off and given to me to act as a receipt. It states my name, the ticket number, the photocard number, ticket expiry, the date it was withdrawn and the authority number of the guard. He then paper-clipped the ticket to his section, said he will send it off and then kept it in his office on the train. While we were talking with the RPI the guard ran back to get the ticket/form to show him, but then took it back to the train.

 

I can't thank you enough for your input. Sorry if I appear inconsistent but I'm not meaning to be. I'm possibly just stating every fact in the hope it will help.

 

Oh, sounds like the form was a nil-paid paper ticket which acts as a receipt as they've taken your Hubby's season ticket. If's not usual to put all your details on such a receipt though, so maybe the Guard did so as an extra thing he does? It was that or a Ticket Irregularity Report, which Guards do as they don't tend to report people for prosecution normally. This report would go to Prosecutions. As an RPI took over, said form should be irrelevant and a statement obtained from the Guard, by the RPI as a supporting statement.

 

I understand what you're saying now. Basically all you can do is wait and see what comes of this. Don't call SWT as they won't know who you are as yet because chances are they haven't received the report from the RPI. Also, why tell them to all intents, that you committed an offence on the railway when the report might well be sub-optimal and binned? No need to force their hand! Let us know what happens, if anything! If there's anything else we can help with, just post back at any time!

[noveum]

Hello Annon-mum.

 

This is a very similar situation to what my wife went through a while back with me and my monthly pass. FCC or SWT though.

 

She was a wreck for a week or two and then after days of web trawling we decidied to shake out of it and move forward. These guys on here are the best advice givers and dont charge anything. So we listened to what was said on here and realised - we were not going to die, we were not going to go to prison (although technically possible) so just took what ever was going to happen on the chin and we would react and deal with it IF anything happened?

 

So, please dont let it take over your life.

 

My wife took my pass for a day trip and was caught. We waited for the formal letter which also asks for your own version of accounts (2 weeks) then replied back.

The best bit of advice i was given was to get hold of the presecution dept number once you have a case number and call it all day everyday till someone picks up..

 

If they are happy to avoid court then you must make them an offer - and dont be silly and offer the price of the ticket.. think about admin fee's etc.. and offer something that you are happy with that can make this mess go away...

be polite and beg.. sounds brutal but thats what worked for us?

 

Hope this helps?

My Best.

Noveum.

[anon-mum]

Stigy - Thank you ever so much. Your comments have really helped me explain my actions in the best possible way. That was my main aim coming on here so the inspectors don't read my letter and say, "that doesn't make sense so here's a court summons".

 

- If/when I do write to them with my response is it worth mentioning my travel history and that I can show proof of payment via bank statements on every trip I've made to London in the last 12 months? And the same where my husband can demonstrate that it was him using his ticket on the Saturday's it has been used in the past, and not me?

 

- When I do reply and offer reasonable admin costs to avoid court, is it worth stating an amount (ie. £150) and even enclosing a cheque for that amount? Or is that being too assumptive?

 

- Finally, should I highlight that we didn't pursue a duplicate season ticket and forfeited the month remaining effectively already paying a couple of hundred pounds for the mistake? Will they view this favourably or will they not care.

 

 

Noveum - Thank you also for your comments. Can I ask, did you write as well as call? Was the call intended to follow the letter up, as in "this is my case number, I have sent as letter as requested but wanted to discuss the matter personally and offer.....". I think I'm worried that if my letter isn't everything they need that instead of coming back to me with additional questions they'll just go straight to a court summons.

[Stigy]

Stigy - Thank you ever so much. Your comments have really helped me explain my actions in the best possible way. That was my main aim coming on here so the inspectors don't read my letter and say, "that doesn't make sense so here's a court summons".

 

- If/when I do write to them with my response is it worth mentioning my travel history and that I can show proof of payment via bank statements on every trip I've made to London in the last 12 months? And the same where my husband can demonstrate that it was him using his ticket on the Saturday's it has been used in the past, and not me?

 

- When I do reply and offer reasonable admin costs to avoid court, is it worth stating an amount (ie. £150) and even enclosing a cheque for that amount? Or is that being too assumptive?

 

- Finally, should I highlight that we didn't pursue a duplicate season ticket and forfeited the month remaining effectively already paying a couple of hundred pounds for the mistake? Will they view this favourably or will they not care.

 

 

Noveum - Thank you also for your comments. Can I ask, did you write as well as call? Was the call intended to follow the letter up, as in "this is my case number, I have sent as letter as requested but wanted to discuss the matter personally and offer.....". I think I'm worried that if my letter isn't everything they need that instead of coming back to me with additional questions they'll just go straight to a court summons.

You're welcome

 

I wouldn't delve in to your travel history personally, as they could then say you ought to know better. Your previous journeys are also irrelevant unfortunately and SWT will more than likely only be interested in the facts of this case.

 

It depends on what their initial letter states to be honest. I wouldn't specify a figure, but would be inclined to offer to pay "all reasonable admin costs" in order to remain out of court. I wouldn't send a cheque either, just be clear you're serious, sorry and want to avoid court in what ever way necessary. If there's no provision on their letter to do this (it's often a 'fill in the boxes' type format to send to them confirming details etc), I'd either write a covering letter of apology, or send the details they ask for off, and wait for their next letter. Remember, you can offer to settle out of court right up until the court date if SWT did take it to court, so if you try and fail, try again on the day, this time with your cheque book handy. I recon given the circumstances, they'll want to call you in for a second interview, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

I'm jumping the gun a bit to be honest, and wouldn't want you to worry too much about court given it's a one-off misdemeanour. Even if SWT believe there's enough evidence to suggest it was a deliberate act, it's still only a first offence and they are usually quite understanding from experience. I won't go in to the different tiers of offence too much (Byelaws and Regulation of Railways Act 1889), but will say that it doesn't have to be a deliberate act of fare evasion for SWT to prosecute, as even no knowledge of the offence and no intent to avoid payment of the fare constitutes to a Railway Byelaw offence. Just play the waiting game.