Help me navigate my deposit troubles

[fpeeped]

Hi there. My husband and I are tenants who signed an Assured Shorthold Tenancy for a 3 bedroom house in the summer of 2011, and we terminated the agreement on at the end of March 2013.

 

I have highlighted the "backstory" in case it is relevant. I would really appreciate it if someone in the know could read it and let us know if it’s relevant enough to be included in our submission to the DPS.

 

I have given each part of our deposit nightmare a sub-heading so it's easier to digest what's going on.

BACKSTORY.

 

Had a reasonably friendly relationship with our LL's, who were also our next door neighbours, and we also, got on well with the Estate Agents.

 

Our decision to move elsewhere came when in January 2013 we received a letter from the Agents saying the LL was planning to increase our monthly water charge from £25.00 to £71.00. Not a big deal, you might think, but we have had a faulty toilet flush since we moved in (the toilet was a concealed-cistern type, hidden behind tiles).

 

Every time we flushed (which was multiple times per day with 4 of us in the house) the flow of flushing water would continue for a good 45-60 minutes. We calculated that it would have cost well over £500.00 in water wastage. Being new to renting, we had "chats" with our LL's over the garden fence about the problem, but never put anything in writing to our Agents. We did telephone the Agents about the problem several times, though.

 

So, we handed our notice to terminate at the end of February, and we received a very snotty note through our letterbox from Mrs. LL, explaining that the price hike was due to the frequent visits from our son and his girlfriend and their use of the loo over the last 12 months. When I checked the contract I couldn't see any clauses about guests staying, and associated additional costs.

 

In our last month of occupancy we paid the increased water fee and decided it was worth it just so we could get away without hassle. Wrong! Mrs. LL started ignoring us in person, refusing to even acknowledge us as we spent our last month there. It was pretty awkward when you are connected next-door neighbours!

 

So, we found ourselves a new place and moved the bulk of our belongings out 3 weeks before our tenancy agreement ended. During this time, I assume the LL's husband (a builder) let himself into the property without giving us 24 hours’ notice, or indeed any notice, and he fixed the faulty toilet for the new tenants. A small amount of grout dust was present in the WC, that wasn't there before. Annoying, considering everything that has happened, but we had already moved to a nice, new place so didn't care.

 

ROOF.

 

When we were moving out, my husband clipped the guttering at the front of the house with the hired removal van while reversing. This shattered about a foot of horizontal guttering, and the shifting guttering had nudged 4 of the roof pan tiles out of place (they didn't fall to the ground or break, just needed re-aligning). This was at about 10pm so we made our way to the new home after checking it wasn't too serious. We decided we would return the next day and check it out in the daylight.

 

Next AM we received a phone call from the Agents telling us we had damaged the roof and the LL wanted it fixed ASAP. My husband told them it was fair, and asked how much the Agent's maintenance guy (he also happens to co-own the Agency) would charge for the repair. He quoted "about £100.00 or you can fix it yourself". Decided to do it ourselves, so we bought a new length of matching guttering, clips and fixed it ourselves to a good standard, realigning the tiles to their previous positions. All done. Or so we thought.

 

At the final inspection the Agent made no mention, or note on the Condition and Inventory list, of any problems or issues with the guttering/roof or outside of the property.

 

However, we received the final inspection report letter from the Agents a few days later and they were claiming a cost of £70.00 for a "roofer to check the condition of the roof".

 

At no time were we told of any hidden, additional charges associated with fixing the roof ourselves, and if we knew about it, we would have let the Agency guy fix it himself. I feel this is a totally unfair cost, and can't see clauses in my tenancy agreement mentioning any costs involved with a professional checking any repairs made to the property.

 

I asked for a copy of the invoice for this job, in case we needed to present it to the DPS, and what came back was a hand written "invoice" from a gentleman with no business name and no presence on the internet/yellow pages/etc. for our area. There wasn't a unique invoice ref. number, no date for the service, no vat amounts or numbers. Just a scribbled letter from Joe Cowboy saying "JOB: CHECKING OF ROOF, TILES AND FELT. AMOUNT DUE £70.00." and a paid stamp mark. This is not what legally constitutes an invoice.

CARPET CLEANING.

 

A clause in the contract states that if you have a dog, you must get the carpet in the lounge professionally cleaned prior to your vacation, and submit a receipt for proof of the service.

 

In November 2012 I did speak to the LL's (again, over the fence) about housing a small Shih-Tzu cross that belonged to a family friend who couldn't afford to house it any longer herself. I didn't submit anything in writing stating I would be housing a dog, but we did received a letter from the Agents saying that the LL's had notified them that we wished to house a dog, and that if we did, the carpets must be professionally cleaned, etc., etc. We had the dog infrequently over 4 months, as it went back and forth between our house and a family member's.

CARPET - FINAL INSPECTION.

 

I telephoned the Agents, during our last month of tenancy, and asked if I indeed needed to have a professional carpet cleaning service, due to our circumstances with the dog, or if we could use our "Vax" carpet cleaning machine (a good quality piece of kit) with Vax brand concentrated carpet cleaning fluid, and clean it to a good standard ourselves. The Agent confirmed that would be "fine" and that the professional cleaning service wasn't necessary. Again, we didn't get it in writing.

 

I should add that the carpet was already over a year old when we moved in. It is cheap, loop-pile polypropylene stuff and was burned, worn and really filthy with dead bugs everywhere when we started our tenancy. The last tenants left it in a state.

 

So, we cleaned it and it looked good/smelled fresh/etc. Quite worn in the areas of heavy traffic, but other than that it was as it was when we entered the place.

 

I insisted to be present at the Agent's final inspection, and took along my son's girlfriend as a witness. The agent seemed to be slightly annoyed by our presence. We discussed the carpet and he verbally agreed that the carpet was sufficiently clean and in a good enough condition, but noted the slightly lighter, thinner areas of heavy traffic, particularly in front of the large living room windows, as "Could be fading due to sun, could be damaged. Will check with LL and go from there". This note is written on the final check condition and inventory list, which we signed in 2011 when we started our contract.

 

He said he would get in touch with the LL about this, and tell us of their decision. I didn't see what my LL's opinion had to do with the results of the Agent's final inspection findings, and asked him what would happen if they decided they wanted to make a deduction from our deposit because of the carpet. The agent said "Well, if they do, I'll clean it myself and will bill them". I took "them" to mean the landlords. My son's partner was present and witnessed him saying this.

 

Now, I thought the point of final inspection was for the Agent, as a 3rd party, to make decision there and then, based on visual evidence and investigation, and make a note of it... NOT add a statement like "Could be this, could be that, I'll see what the LL's think and make something up later when the tenants aren't about".

 

Obviously our LL's pay the Agents a monthly fee for their service - so naturally the Agents want to keep them satisfied if they want to keep them as clients. I feel like there is a serious question of a lack of impartiality for this process and the subsequent events.

 

Again, the final inspection report letter showed they wanted to deduct £50.00 from our deposit for a professional cleaning, despite the conversation saying otherwise and the inconclusive notes on the Agent's Condition Inventory check list made at the final inspection.

 

I told them I wanted to see a copy of the receipt, and again, the Agents sent an incomplete "invoice". No date for the service undertaken. No unique invoice ref. number for the service. No VAT details. Again, to my mind, this is not a legal invoice.

 

The household cleaning company name on the letter has zero presence on the internet, yellow pages, etc. but the payee name is, after a quick Google search, the son of another owner of an Estate Agency in town. A very unique name considering the small size of our rural town, so it's definitely the same individual.

 

Is this young lad being paid cash in hand to do odd cleaning jobs for Agencies in town? Or is his setup operating as a front for defrauding tenants of their deposits in the town by offering false invoices for jobs never completed, in order to substantiate claims made by LL's and backed-up by Agents?

 

SECOND LETTER FROM AGENTS -

LL'S NOW WANT US TO BEAR COST OF AN ENTIRE NEW CARPET.

 

A covering letter from the Agents, along with these incomplete "invoices" also said that the LL had requested for us to bear the cost of replacing the entire living room carpet due to "chemical damage" (again, no idea what this is about. No mention of it in the final inspection Condition and Inventory checklist). They had no firm figures, but said they would write again with details of the full cost to be deducted from our deposit for the new carpet.

 

Included was a copy of a hastily written, and signed, compliments slip from a local carpet shop staff member, who stated the "Carpet has not been professionally cleaned. Residue of cleaning solution left in carpet from cleaning solution". It seems as if the LL has had a visit from the carpet shop salesman, dated recently on 10.04.2013, and roped him into writing some sort of assessment of our own cleaning standards.

 

The carpet was over a year old when we moved in, and was already dirty, burned, etc. by the previous tenants (all noted on the move-in checklist we signed) so how can they even suggest that we purchase a new carpet? I thought tenants only had to pay for the cost of a like-for-like replacement if things were damaged.

 

I would like to point out that the carpet was not damaged by us, chemically or otherwise, during the cleaning process or our occupancy. It was thoroughly rinsed, cleaned, etc. It was fine. We completely dispute all of these claims of damage to the carpet.

 

On the incomplete copy of invoice from the carpet cleaning service they sent me, there is no mention of the date on which the service was carried out. The carpet store's compliment slip is dated. 10.04.2013, so did the professional carpet cleaner cause this damage? Who knows!

 

ELECTRICAL SOCKETS.

 

The final "cost" they mention in the second letter, but quote no firm figures about, is a problem with an electrical socket. We had no problems with any of the electrical sockets upon our vacancy of the place, and dispute this too.

 

There was no note made at the final inspection about any faulty or damaged sockets. They said they would inform us on the costs associated with repair of the electrical sockets in their next letter. For all I know, the new tenants could have damaged the sockets on the day they moved in. Same goes for the mysterious carpet damage.

 

QUESTIONS.

 

What should I do? It seems like we're being penalised by the LL's for daring to disagree with their proposed increase in utilities fees and making the decision to leave their property.

They let two other properties, and she once described in great detail a problem they had with a tenant and the windows of one of their properties, some 5 years ago. The way she described this dispute to me (at LENGTH) made it seem like it only happened yesterday. She's one of those sorts of people.

 

The agents have been telling me one thing, disappearing to speak with the LL's, and returning to us with more and more problems with the condition of the house which were never outlined by the agent in the final inspection.

 

I'm on anti-depressant medication and this is really starting to make me feel ill. My husband and I can't afford to lose our £975.00 deposit because of all these claims for mystery damage that seem to get worse and more expensive with each letter from the Estate Agents.

 

We have been reasonable, compliant tenants during our time there. If I was renting out a place, I would have been more than happy to have had tenants like us. I'm not out to cheat anyone and i'm being made to feel like some sort of criminal.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the length of this, but I wanted to explain the situation in its entirety so we don't get caught out in any future adjudication process that may happen.

 

Thank you very much.

Edited April 17, 2013 by fpeeped

[mariner51]

Why is LL paying the water rate and not you?

What legally constitues an invoice for a £70 job? You are not required to have invoices for DPS. LL can charge any reasonable sum (less fair wear & tear) to your deposit. It is form him th justify it if deposit is in dispute with DPS.

Same with carpet, renew cost for new, less say 20% for 1 yr wear & tear for a cheap carpet with life expectancy of 5 yr.

 

Did you receive a move in inventory report? LL will be hard pushed to prove anything if not, excpet for roof inspection.

LLs are entitled to have final say on inventory.

 

When renting, any permissions should be requested/accepted/declined in writing, not over the verbally. If LL lived next door you/he didn't need cost of stamp.

 

If deposit not yet returned, place it in dispute with DPS.

[fpeeped]

Hi there. Thanks.

 

The LL lived next door - our house shares the same building envelope as theirs. Ours is an old, converted barn attached to their main stone-built house in a small hamlet with less than 10 homes. We shared the water supply, and agreed to pay £25.00 water contribution charge every month.

 

When we first moved in, we received a move-in inventory check-list, which my husband and I signed. It documented burns to the carpet from the previous tenants. We had no document in the form a move-in "report" has such, as I say, it was a just an inventory check-list with ticks, and dashes - with very small notes from the Estate Agent against the dashes.

 

What can I do about the carpet? Today I received another letter from the Agents saying that they now have a quote for new carpet, which we are expected to pay, and it is £474.00. What kind of information should I supply to the DPS to substantiate my claim that we have not damaged the carpet?

 

Also, the today's letter from the Agent's includes a proper invoice from a local electrician for £90.00 for "Faults on sockets". We had no faults with the sockets, and on our day of vacancy everything was working 100%. I have no idea what the LL/new tenants have done to the sockets themselves since our exit. How should I word it in my statement to the DPS?

[fpeeped]

Just to add- I have just gone through the steps on the DPS site, and it now says "Repayment Response Submitted". When will I have the opportunity to submit a statement to the DPS, along with the photo evidence I have, etc, to strengthen my position?

 

Thanks

[mariner51]

You ring them up, check if LL is claiming any of deposit and put that amount in dispute for ADR.

LL can decline to use ADR and opt for small claims court. He has to show damage was not evident at move in but was at move out and allow for fair wear & tear, based on length of T and life expectacy of gooda..

You will be asked why you dispute LLs claim, at which point you can submit your evidence. Photo's should be date/time stamped and support either the move in/out written check.

[fpeeped]

Hi, just to update this ancient thread (with a happy ending).

 

I wrote a massive report as part of my evidence to the DPS. Fortunately, they sided with us on nearly everything including the carpet. We had to pay a small amount for a minor issue, which I still disagree with, but as I foolishly didn't record the phone call landlord/letting agents during the incident (or insist they contact me in writing) then I had no evidence to back up my story. Let that be a lesson to first time renters.

 

My advice to anyone renting a property, especially if you are first time renters like us, is to photograph and video everything before you sign the agreement. Take your time doing so during your visit and ignore letting agent's impatience.

 

Make sure your camera's time/date settings are up to date, and if possible, enable the camera's "timestamp" function.

 

Also, never speak to your landlord or agents about issues over the phone (unless you're recording the conversation). Get everything you can in writing. It may delay things, but your deposit will be far better protected.

 

Also, read every little the detail on the inspection report before you sign the contract. Query anything that doesn't seem right, and don't feel rushed into signing the contract before you're happy with the details. I'm sure 9 out of 10 landlords are fantastic, but if like us you end up with a landlord who is vindictive and untruthful at the end of your tenancy, then you could be in trouble if you haven't protected yourself fully.