claim form received

[bally79]

I hope this is in the right place!

 

I want to explain everything so I apologise if this is a bit lengthy.

 

I received a letter from ind ltd in march stating that they had been appointed by welcome financial services ltd to collect a debt of £1789.40. This was relating to a loan they claim I had in december 2011 (or possibly defaulted on in december 2011, it isn't very clear).

 

I did not take this loan out. Many years earlier I had a loan from this company but as far as I am concerned it was all paid off, way before 2011.

 

I copied a template I found on here asking for the credit agreement from this account and denying all knowledge of said account. Today would be the 13th working day since they received this and until today I have had no further correspondence.

 

Today I have received a claim form from northampton court. The address for sending documents is hegarty llp in Peterborough and the claimant is welcome finance. There is no mention of ind.

 

The particulars of claim state:

The claimant claims for sums due under a/various credit agreement(s) related only to money regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 entered into between the claimant and the defendant. The agreement(s) was/were terminated upon the defendant failure to comply with the terms of the agreement(s). The claimant complied with section iii and iv and annex b of the pd pre-action conduct.

And the claimant claims:

Personal loan account number [*****] balance of 1789.40 as of 2/12/11. Less payment of 1 dated 18/3/13.

Interest under s69 of the county court act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 2/12/11 to 2/4/13 of 191.00 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payments at a daily rate of 0.39 AND costs.

 

The £1 payment referred to here is presumably the postal order I enclosed with my credit agreement request-stating that this was not to be used for any other purposes.

 

This is way over my head now and as I will be applying for a mortgage soon it is all very worrying.

 

I have signed up to view my experian credit report, and have a healthy score with absolutely no sign of this loan anywhere.

 

Thank you anyone who has read all of that, and I really hope you can help!

 

EDIT in order to write this I referred to all of my documents, and realised I'd never checked the recorded delivery status of the CCA I sent. Having now logged in and checked on the post office website it looks asthough this hasn't been delivered. The address was a PO box but I was assured at the time of sending that this was still possible. In addition to this, the £1 payment that they are claiming could have come fron nowhere other than the postal order I enclosed.

Edited April 5, 2013 by bally79

[DonkeyB]

First of all, doing a CCA request implied that you knew something about the account – your letter should have simply denied all knowledge.

 

However, it has fortunately become your defence. A defence to a clearly vexatious piece of litigation.

 

They cannot enforce any account while in default of a valid CCA request (see Kotecha v Phoenix), which is a total defence to the claim. You must also assert that you know nothing of this account, and therefore put the claimant to strict proof of its existence.

 

Moreover, it sounds as though they have not actually complied with pre-action protocols at all.

 

Have a look through the site for CPR31, and the case mentioned above.

 

Can you record your telephone conversations? If so, you might want to call Welcome. First of all, confirm that your previous account was indeed paid up and closed. If not, you want to know why not, and why you have received no previous statement or letters. Then and ask about the account in question, and ask why the fee for a CCA request was deliberately and deviously applied to an account you know nothing about.

 

And then complain vociferously to the OFT.

 

This will be a piece of pee if all your facts so far are correct.

[DonkeyB]

Oh, and welcome to CAG!

[bally79]

Thank you DonkeyB!

 

I will research what you have suggested over the weekend and hopefully be significantly more clued up come monday when I can take the next steps.

 

I thought the CCA request was the right thing to do there, guess I should have posted back in march! It did say at the very top that I don't acknowledge the debt at all.

 

Thanks again and I will keep you updated.

[bally79]

Oh and also, if I will be using the CCA request in my defence, would it be worth sending them to the solicitors and welcome finance, who are named on the claim form? I am a bit confused that IND aren't mentioned on there as it was them demanding payment a few weeks ago. Presumably if this debt existed then they would have bought it from welcome finance who would then have nothing more to do with it?

[DonkeyB]

IND are nasty and tend to do a disappearing act when claims are issued. Or so it seems... I bet the phone number on the claim form links directly to IND! Be careful – IND are still steering this, and are acting totally deceitfully.

 

Your priorities are a recorded call to Welcome, and CPR31 to the claimant’s solicitor.

[DonkeyB]

Re telling them things – no, keep your powder dry for now.

[bally79]

Sorry to keep on, but I want to be 100% clear. Does it not matter that my CCA request was sent to IND, who aren't mentioned on the claim form? Now that the claimant is welcome finance can I still use a defence of them taking action whilst in default of a valid CCA request even though this wasn't sent to them?

[DonkeyB]

It is up to IND to forward the CCA request or otherwise deal with it by referring you up the chain. They are responsible as they are acting as agents of the claimant. Ignoring it is not an option – was it sent recorded?

 

What is the phone number for contact on the claim form? If you call it, it will be answered by IND, I bet. Proof they are STILL involved.

[bally79]

I did send it recorded, but having checked the post office tracker there isn't confirmation of delivery. I have proof of postage along with my receipt for the postal order enclosed.

 

The address on the IND letter was a PO box, so maybe that is why it hasn't been confirmed.

 

I have a template for the CPR31, which says I should ask for documents that are mentioned in the particulars of claim. Would you be able to read this in my first post and advise what exactly I should be asking for?

 

I will leave you to get on with your day soon, I really do appreciate the assistance.

[DonkeyB]

Request the credit agreement, evidence of default/termination of account, evidence of satisfaction of pre-action protocols, evidence of payment to account of £1 on 18/3/13.

 

What is the phone number for response on the claim form? Is it IND?

[bally79]

Great, thanks. I will get it sent off this afternoon. The phone number is indeed IND-good guess ;-) it is literally just below the address for Hegarty LLP.

[DonkeyB]

Guess? That was no guess... so IND are in charge of this. Hegarty is the front. Misleading practice!

[citizenB]

So we can keep on top of your timeline, what is the date of issue of the claim form ? You will find that top right hand corner of the claim.

 

Date of Issue + 5 days for service + 14 days to acknowledge + 14 days to submit defence if you are intending to defend.

[citizenB]

You should still have the receipt that came with the Postal order. You can telephone the number on that receipt which will confirm absolutely the £1.00 was cashed - which confirms absolutely the letter was delivered.

 

Your CCA request should have said that they were not to use the £1.00 for any other purpose, as it related to the statutory fee for the CCA.

 

You can use that in your defence.

 

Not only have they failed to comply with the s78 request and are now in default, but that they have incorrectly used the statutory fee to apply to the account, which is an unsolicited gift.

[bally79]

Hello citizenB. The date of issue is the 2/4/13. If I was to acknowledge the claim now, would I then have to file my defence within 14 days or would I still get 28 +5 days from the date of issue? The timing of this isn't great as I plan to be in budapest 11/4/13 - 15/4/13.

[DonkeyB]

28+5.

[citizenB]

 

The particulars of claim state:

The claimant claims for sums due under

a/various credit agreement(s) related only to money regulated by the consumer

credit act 1974 entered into between the claimant and the defendant. The

agreement(s) was/were terminated upon the defendant failure to comply with the

terms of the agreement(s). The claimant complied with section iii and iv and

annex b of the pd pre-action conduct.

And the claimant claims:

Personal loan account number [*****] balance of 1789.40 as of 2/12/11. Less payment of 1

dated 18/3/13.

interest under s69 of the county court act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 2/12/11 to 2/4/13 of 191.00 and also

interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payments at a daily rate of 0.39 AND costs.

 

 

All you can request by way of the CPR31.14 is..

 

 

A copy of the loan agreement

A copy of the termination Notice.

Statement of account showing how the sum claimed has accrued.

 

You will need to use CPR 18 to establish if they sent a Default Notice, which they should have done, else they were not able to terminate it. ( I will sort out a draft for the CPR18 for you) And I have copied a draft CPR 31.14 below for you.. Do make sure you amend where necessary.

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

[citizenB]

CPR18 Request for Information ONLY

 

 

 

 

Your Name

 

Your Address

 

IN THE XXXXXXXXX county court

 

CLAIM NO:

 

 

 

BETWEEN:

 

 

 

XXXXXXXXXX

 

 

 

Claimant

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

XXXXXXXXXXX

 

 

 

Defendant

 

PART 18 REQUEST FOR FURTHER INFORMATION

 

To: XXXXXXXXXX (claimant)

 

　

Please answer the following questions:

 

 

1. Was a Default Notice issued pursuant to section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as amended) and if so:

 

a] Upon what date, for what amount and what was the date for remedy of the breach?

 

b] Was the issuance of the Default Notice noted in the communications log?

 

2. Does the amount claimed include charges, and if so what amount?

 

TAKE NOTICE THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ANSWER THE ABOVE REQUEST

 

WITHIN 14 DAYS OF SERVICE OF THE SAME UPON YOU

 

 

 

There might be other questions that can be asked. Perhaps wait for DonkeyB to have some input on this. It should be sent to the Solicitors acting on behalf of the claimant.

[DonkeyB]

Spot on CB!

[citizenB]

**blush** thank you

[bally79]

Thank you both so much!

 

I have just checked with the post office, and my postal order was cashed on the 21/3/13. So there can be no question as to whether they received my CCA request, nor where the £1 payment towards the debt came from.

 

The CCA request included the line 'I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose'.

[citizenB]

Thank you both so much!

 

I have just checked with the post office, and my postal order was cashed on the 21/3/13. So there can be no question as to whether they received my CCA request, nor where the £1 payment towards the debt came from.

 

The CCA request included the line 'I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose'.

 

Excellent, then you can include that in your defence as already mentioned

[citizenB]

Now all you need to is get your CPR 31.14 and CPR part 18 off to them in the post, send Recorded delivery or Special Delivery if you can afford it.

 

If it is a Post office box number, it might be worth asking the Post office themselves if they have an alternative address.

[bally79]

The address for the solicitors isn't a PO box, so no problem there. Is special delivery preferable or will recorded be sufficient? The cost isn't an issue, although obviously I resent that I have had to spend anything dealing with these scumbags!