Newlyn behaving badly in respect of their fees ***WON***

[Winner2512]

Following my inability to keep up with my council tax bills ,Harrow Council passed me unto Newlyn ,i received a letter from Newlyn stating that i owed them £997.50 and i reached an agreement with them to start paying off the debt by paying £200 monthly starting from December 2012.I started paying but could not keep up with the payment in February having paid just paid a little over £400 then because my wife was not working at the time and we just had a baby and that left me with the sole responsibility of taking care of all expenses.

 

On the 20th of February i came back from work to find a letter from a Bailiff with Newlyn titled "Removal notice" and that i should pay £873.39 .He asked me to ring immediately which i did and was told that i have been charged £18.00 for a visit on the 11th and £42.89 for a visit on the 20th of February.He also charged me £235 for Attendance/Van visit on the same date.I told him i never received any letter on the 11th of February and i would have called them if i did receive any letter from them as is my custom.I asked them to check their records to see that i always rang them each time i receive a letter from them.But he called me a liar and said they have records to show that i was informed of their visit on the 20th which is entirely false.

 

The truth is that they didnt send a letter to me as clamed but they are hellbent on ripping me off to the tune of £300:00 which is for their single visit on the 20th.

I have fully paid £997:39 which is the original amount i was owing and i am disputing the £300 charge and the have been threatened with a visit my property if i dont pay the charge and that i will incur more charges.

 

Please advise

Edited March 12, 2013 by citizenB

[i hate bailiffs]

Has the bailiffs been into your property and got a levy

 

sounds like bailiffs have set the payments high knowing that you will default on payments

Please list any items on the levy

 

Ask the council

How many liability orders they have/had for you

How much was each one for

When were they obtained

When were they passed to bailiffs for enforcement.

 

Then send this to the bailiffs

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme bailiff Co

bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a Breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

[i hate bailiffs]

You do not need to phone the bailiff or speak to him

There is no right of entry no locksmith no arrest no nothing

 

Bailiffs lie all they have is a liability order not a court order warrant whatever they call it

 

Payments direct to council

[Winner2512]

Hello,

Thanks for your quick response.They have never been into my property to levy any goods.I have never met any of them.I have since finished the payments.As it stands im not owing the council except for the ridiculous charge of £300 by the Bailiffs.

They have sent a breakdown of the charges to me already and i mentioned them above.They were r £18.00 11th and £42.89, £235 for Attendance/Van visit on the 20th of February.All totalling £295.89 for just one single visit on the 20th of February.

[i hate bailiffs]

They can not charge all those on the same day/visit

 

Van fee and no levy is wrong is it just there fees outstanding now

 

Formal complaint to the council as there agents

copy in local MP

 

£18 visit fee

£42 is a levy fee

£235 for a van fee they are taking the ....

 

if you have paid the bailiffs directly they would of taken there fees out so there will still be a outstanding amount owing to the council

although there fees are wrong

[Winner2512]

I have already paid to them.I finished paying the original fee of £997:50.All i am disputing is the £300 Charge for a single visit on the 20th of February.

[Winner2512]

Yes i was charged £235 for van fees and another separate £42 for their visit on the same date. I have paid £997.50 and another £4 for bank charges. What is left is just the £295.37 charge which is the addition of all those ridiculous charges .I spoke to the council then and they insisted on me paying the bailiffs and that i had no dealings whatsoever with them.They didnt get any access into my property so i dont know why they are levying me as i have never met any of them.

[i hate bailiffs]

At this moment the bailiffs will still have a outstanding amount owing to the council as there money goes first so will still visit you

You must make a formal complaint to the council copy in your local councilors and local MP

 

The council are responsible for the bailiffs

 

If the council fail to acknowledge the mistake of the bailiffs take it to the local government ombudsmen

 

if the bailiffs had no levy all they could charge is a first and second visit fee

[i hate bailiffs]

Yes i was charged £235 for van fees and another separate £42 for their visit on the same date. I have paid £997.50 and another £4 for bank charges. What is left is just the £295.37 charge which is the addition of all those ridiculous charges .I spoke to the council then and they insisted on me paying the bailiffs and that i had no dealings whatsoever with them.They didnt get any access into my property so i dont know why they are levying me as i have never met any of them.

 

The council are WRONG

[ploddertom]

I have moved this to the Bailirff Forum

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?385086-Newlyn-Trying-to-Rip-me-off-fraudulently&p=4169888#post4169888

[brassnecked]

Looks like Newlyn have been very naughty with their fees, send the letter suggested by IHB at post#2 to newlyn, and ask the council for the other information exactly as suggested and send in that Formal Complaint, as soon as you have the information from the Acme letter, post the reply and list of charges up so caggers can help you sort what is lawful and what is taken from the Brothers Grimm Bailiff fee Storybook. then send in that Formal Complaint, email to Head Of revenues the CEO, Elected leader and MP, send hard copies via a signed for service or drop the ones for the council Bigwigs in the council office and get the apparatchik on reception to sign for them. You can forward to your MP via www.writetothem.com if you don't know who your MP is.

[outlawla]

Keep an eye on this website particularly in regards Harrow Borough Council's response to whether they agreed Newlyn's £235 Van/Attendance fee.

[tomtubby]

Outlawla,

 

Cannot see the FOI on the site..... maybe I am not looking correctly.

 

[EDIT] I can say with all honesty that I never before come across an industry that is so seriously out of control. In the past it was "standard industry practice" to charge a fee of £42.50 (which represents two initial visits) BEFORE a bailiff has visited.

 

Now..."industry practice" has changed significantly in that most companies are now charging an "attending to remove" at the very same time as the visit to levy. This is not permitted at all and frankly, bailiff companies are "milking the system" and the person who is suffering is the debtor ( who in many cases is also suffering financial difficulties),

 

Regarding Harrow Council and Newlyn I am very concerned indeed at a query that we received about a month ago where the debtor was a sole trader who had a very small carpentry workshop. He has arrears of NNDR of approx £2,400 and Newlyn charged at the initial visit a "van fee" of £700 !!!

 

A Formal Complaint was sent to Harrow Council. It was not answered by them and instead, forwarded to Newlyn to respond. In their response they "claim" that an "error" had been made and that the "van fee" should not have been for £700 and instead, should have ONLY been for £450.

 

The complaint is ongoing but my personal concern is that it may well be that other small businesses are also being charged £700 "van fees" by this company when enforcing NNDR on behalf of Harrow Council.

 

Some people may even go so far as to wonder whether Newlyn would retain £450 and the balance of £250 be paid to Harrow Council under their infamous "profit sharing scheme" .

[outlawla]

Outlawla,

 

Cannot see the FOI on the site..... maybe I am not looking correctly....

 

It seems the requests I wanted to alert the OP to are not displaying on Harrow Borough Council's home page, not unless you're logged in that is. However, these are the direct links which don't require the reader to be signed in or to be a member..

 

There seems to be three submitted recently which might be of interest:

 

• Agreed bailiff fees for Council tax Enforcement.
  
• Schedule 5 bailiffs fees
  
• Another bringing the council's integrity into question
  

EDIT:

 

There's a reply from another council to a similar FoI request with regards Van/Attendance fees 'on this link', however it all looks like day light robbery to me.

Edited March 12, 2013 by outlawla

[tomtubby]

I do try to keep an eye out for interesting FOI requests on that site. Perhaps you would be good enough to alert us when Harrow Council respond.

[Winner2512]

Thanks so much for your effort and quick response.I have mailed a formal complaint to the Head of revenue of the cCouncil,Local MP ,CAB and councillors and one of them is actually on the case.Im yet to get a response from the council.I will definitely keep an eye on the site for the response from the council.Meanwhile,when phoning the Council to get the Address of the Head of Revenue ,the staff where rude, dismissive and un-coperative.Seems they been trained in that regard.

[tomtubby]

Winner.

 

One very important question.......has the bailiff ever managed to levy upon a car of yours?

 

You may be surprised to know but Harrow Council have publicly stated that they have a "profit sharing" agreement with Harrow Council whereby Newlyn pay a percentage of the bailiff fees collected by Harrow Council.

 

The EALING LGO report makes it very clear indeed that an "attending to remove" fee CANNOT be charged UNLESS a PRIOR VALID levy had been made upon goods.

 

Next.....fees may ONLY be charged for actions actually undertaken by a bailiff. Therefore, if a bailiff has charged an "ATR" fee that he must have intended to ACTUALLY remove goods. This would be impossible.

 

With council tax recovery the actual wording of the legislation states that when a Liability Order is issued that the local authority (or their agent) may then "levy" upon goods ( in order to secure the debt and fees). Technically speaking ( and I am aware that practically this is nonsense) a bailiff is not even supposed to collect money......

 

There is therefore a legal requirement whereby a valid levy must first have been made upon goods.

 

A Walking Possession agreement may then be signed and; if the debtor fails to abide by the agreement or defaults on the agreement then the bailiff may then attend the property and he would then be legally entitled to charge an "attending to remove" fee.

 

However.....it is important to note that the bailiff does not have a free rein to charge what he likes. Firstly, if charging an ATR fee...the intention MUST BE REAL....and almost always the "intention" is NOT real. If the bailiff has previously levied upon a sofa, DVD and TV then he can at this ATR visit REMOVE those goods "previously" levied upon. Most times, the bailiff does not want the goods and is looking at the way in which he can charge an ATR fee !!

 

Finally, the legislation is clear in that if an ATR fee is charged then the fee MUST be "reasonable". Almost certainly, charging £235 is not "reasonable" and is significantly higher that most bailiff companies are charging.

 

Possibly....they are charging such a significant fee so as to ensure that both Newlyn and Harrow Council make a profit.

 

Final point is that a Harrow MP raised a question in the House of Commons last year regarding this "profit share" agreement.

[brassnecked]

Is this profit sharing scenario even legal? given the fact that the legislation never intended to enable a council or a third party agent to profit from enforcement to collect arrears.

[outlawla]

If I remember correctly, this was only one of several articles covering this....

 

Bailiffs to increase debtors' fees as councils seek cut of profit

 

The Guardian, Monday 26 December 2011

 

Harrow council expects to raise £1m by making bailiffs hand over 8% of their fees.

 

....Fern Silverio, the divisional director of collections and housing benefits at Harrow council, told a conference of bailiffs this year: "Councils will be under pressure to find more income streams, and on a big contract covering all debt the bailiff can still make an enormous profit. [Harrow] council will pass debts worth around £10m to our bailiff partners. From that, they should expect to collect between £3m and £4m, which should generate fees of more than £1m."......

[brassnecked]

If I remember correctly, this was only one of several articles covering this....

 

Bailiffs to increase debtors' fees as councils seek cut of profit

 

The Guardian, Monday 26 December 2011

Even if it is (barely) legal, or illegal, it is morally and ethically wrong to profit from another's misery, in extremis I wonder if the fees and overcharging amounted to Usury, under the Quran, therefore making enforcement and it's excessive and often fairytale fees insulting to Muslims? Oldbill's ways and means act in action.

[seanamarts]

Can we make a new thread with regards to Harrow council please, It seems very important.

 

I will then move post's that are not related to this thread over.

 

Thank you

[Winner2512]

Hello,

Newlyn have not levied any personal belonging of mine.The letter I got from the through the post read "visited today with the intention to levy and seize your goods"

I have never met any of them ever before.

[tomtubby]

This is a copy of a response that I posted a few minutes ago on another thread regarding Newlyn and Harrow Council:

 

...

 

 

 

If Harrow residents have a complaint concerning Newlyn Plc and the fees being charged by them they should consider contacting the Harrow East Conservative MP; Mr Bob Blackman.

 

He raised a Parliamentary Question in the House of Commons last year regarding the tender document for bailiff services issued by Harrow Council and where Harrow require a "kick back" of 10% of the bailiff fees recovered !!!

[Winner2512]

Hello,

Please How are you able to tell that a good or property has been VALIDLY levied?

[ploddertom]

Hello,

Please How are you able to tell that a good or property has been VALIDLY levied?

 

Have you been left a Notice of Seizure (Form 7)? If so tell us what is on it exactly as it is described?