PPI claim on Egg Loan rejected *** SUCCESS ***

[theta]

Hi,

 

What started as a simple question ended up as a mini novel, so I decided to give you the executive summary here with my questions at the end of the post.

 

I sent a SAR to Canada Square Operations (who handle the Egg PPI claims),

received a huge pack of A4 pages and found evidence that PPI had been applied to one of my accounts.

 

Sent in the PPI questionnaire (albeit with the wrong acc no)

and received a reply yesterday saying that they reject my complaint as they couldn't find an account where PPI was applied.

 

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A few weeks ago I decided to look into whether I could claim back PPI from an old Egg Loan I had in the early/mid 2000s.

I hadn't kept any documents so I started with a SAR and after an initial letter saying something like 'we have no records' etc

(which from what I read is a standard letter sent out) I received a huge pack of A4 pages and started to look through them.

 

During the time that I had Egg Loans and cards, I had topped up my loan a few times and I had also consolidated my cards and loan.

So, looking though this huge pack (of often duplicated pages) I found the relevant entries on loan applications like:

 

Payment Protection, PPIPremium, PPICover Level, and so on.

 

On most of them these were N, 0 and blank respectively, but on one of the applications it was Y, 5071.13 and ASUL (whatever that means, I didn't find any explanation in the paperwork).

 

I was quite sure that I was sold PPI (or some sort of insurance) as I remember having a conversation on the phone when applying for the loan

where I was told to get it or 'they' would probably not approve my loan, and now I had the details and was certain it wasn't just my imagination.

 

a couple of weeks ago I sent in the PPI questionnaire with as much information as I could find/remember and

yesterday I got a letter (in fact two, one saying that my complain had been received and that I would hear from them within x weeks)

saying:

 

"I would like to assure you that I have carried out a full review of your account and all of our records indicate that you have never actually purchased this product,

nor has it ever been applied or charged to your account. Therefore, your complaint has not been upheld and has been closed."

 

It does go on to say that it is their final response, however, if I have any additional information to contact them with the details.

 

I thought maybe I wasn't actually paying PPI, but had another look and found a couple of pages I had missed the first time round.

 

One had the Account Number (which I hadn't found when I sent in the PPI questionnaire and instead I had, mistakenly, used the Application Number/PartyID from the Application Report) along with Application Date, Date Opened and more to the point PPI on Account, PPI Cancelled and PPI Cancelled Date.

 

Turns out that I had 3 accounts with only one having PPI on it.

 

Furthermore I found an "Account Information Report" page with various info but also a "Loan PPI Rebate"

which detailed the amount I had paid, a Rebate Description (PPI Premium - Egg Loans) various other bits and an Amount Earned (which was the same as Amount Paid".

 

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my questions are:

- Is the rejection letter I received just an effort to fob me off or have I misunderstood what I've found in the documents they sent me?

Perhaps their excuse is that I didn't provide the correct account number?

(Although it boggles the mind how they could have "carried out a full review" and have missed it?

I'm assuming they actually use computers for their "full reviews"!)

- Should I reply to them with the correct acc no and see what they say or should I take it straight to the FOS?

 

I just find it extremely distasteful if they are in fact trying it on - especially as if I am correct, then they must know full well that I have paid PPI.

 

Any advice would be most appreciated.

 

 

Theo

Edited January 6, 2013 by theta

[ims21]

Challenge their findings and send them copies of everything you can fond that backs up your point that you did pay PPI.

 

Ask them to prove to you that you did not pay PPI given that the paperwork you have suggests that you did. Ask them to provide details as to why they feel that you did not pay PPI.

 

Always challenge the lender first before going to fos because handing over to them may end up taking an age to get resolved.

[dx100uk]

std fob off letter

 

post them back a completed FOS CQ along with copies of the proof you have PPI from the SAR.

 

you need to also do spreadsheet of what PPI you paid

 

so was the PPI rebated?

 

all the info you need in below

 

dx

[theta]

so was the PPI rebated?

 

Well, I'm not sure. I settled the loan early and I had to call them to find out how much I needed to pay. I'm not sure whether they offseted the PPI from my final payment.

 

This is what the "Loan PPI Rebate" entry says:

 

Account Number: xxxxxxxx

Rebate Description: PPI PREMIUM-EGG LOANS

Amount Paid: 2471.64

Current Reb: 0.00

Chge Date: 01/07/2006

Term: 84

Co/Dlr#: 2

Cd: 3

Amount Earned: 2471.64

 

I'm assuming that the "Current Reb: 0.00" means that I didn't receive a rebate?

[dx100uk]

correct

 

how did you settle?

 

dx

[theta]

how did you settle?

 

How? I paid them from my back account. Can't remember if I did it over the phone or via internet banking, but I'm certain the funds came out of my bank account. Is that what you mean?

[dx100uk]

yes as long as it was not another loan [refinance]

 

dx

[theta]

yes as long as it was not another loan [refinance]

 

dx

 

No, it wasn't! I'll get all my facts together and send another letter to them. I'll keep you posted with any developments (or questions!).

 

Thanks very much for your help.

[dx100uk]

IMHO i would do this properly

 

FOS CQ , Spreadsheet & covering letter

 

lets them know you are not just chancing a claim

 

shows you have researched it and know what you are on about

 

dx

[theta]

IMHO i would do this properly

 

FOS CQ , Spreadsheet & covering letter

 

lets them know you are not just chancing a claim

 

shows you have researched it and know what you are on about

 

dx

 

Yes, that's what I intend to do. I'll re-sent the fos CQ with the correct account # and I'm going to calculate exactly what is owed. I have found a summary report of what I paid over the course of the loan so that should help as I had taken a couple of payment breaks.

 

Looking at the Transaction Summary Report it details the payments I made and the Principal Balance After Transaction. The last three entries are as follows:

 

Acc #, Transaction Posting Date, Transaction Effective Date, Transaction Code, Transaction Description, Transaction Amount, Principle Balance After Transaction, Memo

xxxxx, 15/05/2006, 15/05/2006, 83, REG PMT-EFF DTE, 318.02, 17279.53,

xxxxx, 12/06/2006, 12/06/2006, 82, UNSCHED PMT, 10000.00, 7279.53, P/P EX TELLER

xxxxx, 14/06/2006, 13/06/2006, 86, PAYOFF, 10072.21, 0.00, LUT PMT

 

I can't actually decipher the last two. I certainly didn't make two £10000 payments and I don't have a record of what I paid back then. I can only assume that one is the adjustment and the other one is the actual lump sum I paid?

 

Reading the "PPI Single Premium" thread it says:

"In this case you would still have paid the total PPI premium which was put on your loan to start with. For the monthly payment up to the date of settlement you work out the percentage of PPI on a monthly basis as described above. When you settled the loan with a lump sum, the same percentage is used to find out how much of that settlement figure was for the PPI part of the loan. You enter this final amount of PPI payment as the final item in your spreadsheet list."

 

The PPI Premium mentioned in the application is £5071.13 which I assume includes all the interest that would've been accrued had the loan reached maturity. As I mentioned before the Loan PPI Rebate says that the amount I paid was £2471.64.

 

After filling in the spreadsheet I found that over the course of the loan I paid a total of £1448.61 (without including the 8% interest) before the lump sum payment. After adding the percentage of the lump sum payment (which roughly agrees with the amount mentioned in the Loan PPI Rebate) as a final amount of charge in the spreadsheet takes it to £3899.12 (as the percentage was 24.33%) which I guess it sort of agrees (without doing the math) with the PPI Premium minus the interest? (I made 19 out of the 84 payments)

 

Does that sound correct?

[dx100uk]

looks as though it tallies yes

 

dx

[theta]

It took just a little bit of effort, about three months and 3-4 letters from beginning to (almost) end, but it has been a success!

 

And the outcome was quite unexpected too!

 

At first I thought it was only going to be a few hundred pounds, maybe a grand at a push.

 

It turns out I shall be receiving almost £5,000! I can hardly believe it...

and I can hardly believe how naive and stupid I was when I took out the loan in the first place

but thanks to the internet and this forum in particular, it's all happy days now!!!

 

I thought I'd follow up to say 'thanks'

(with a donation soon to follow as well!) to all the good people that helped me

and to give some more info on how I handled it

and what the actual outcome was, in case this helps others in similar situation.

 

Following ims21 and dx's advice

I compiled a pile of documents including a revised - and more accurate - FOS consumer questionnaire,

photocopies of all relevant pages from the huge pack they had sent me

and a covering letter (where I couldn't help my self and took the mickey out of them for claiming to have carried out a 'full review'

- but only slightly and still civilised!) but I deviated a little bit from the advice and didn't include the spreadsheet as I wasn't too sure about the accuracy of my calculations.

 

The reasoning was that I had a ballpark figure and would contest a compensation amount if it was a lot less than what I expected

(which, if you look in my previous post was about £3.9k) and didn't want to commit to anything before I actually heard what they had to say.

 

This morning I received a letter from them and the breakdown of their calculations was:

 

Total PPI Premiums which you have paid (a) £5071.13

Plus interest on premiums paid (b) £605.42

Plus 8% interest © £1856.49

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Subtotal £7533.04

Less any previous rebate paid (d) £2599.49

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Total amount of compensation £4933.55

 

(a) This is the value of PPI premiums which you have paid

(b) This is the contractual interest paid as a result of PPI being applied to your account(s)

© The additional 8% compensatory interest is calculated based on the difference between payments made by you

and the value the payments would have been if there had been no PPI on your account(s)

(d) This is a previous rebate(s) paid to your loan as a result of your PPI being cancelled

or would have been included as part of the settlement figure(s) on early closure of your account(s)

 

it turns out that my calculations would have saved them more than a grand.

I don't know if they would have just accepted my estimate or not,

but seeing as they did try to avoid paying in the first place,

 

I'd say... yes they would have ran with my discounted estimate and made the above numbers up to agree!!

 

Now, all I have to do is send back a completed Acceptance Form which was included in the letter and I'll be receiving a cheque from them within 20 days.

 

To re-cap, here's a rough timeline of what I did along with their responses:

 

- 2nd Nov 12: I sent a Subject Access Request (SAR)

- about a week later I received a letter that looked like they wouldn't comply to my SAR but apparently it was a standard letter I think to say that they couldn't provide copies of the contracts or something like that.

- a few weeks later I received a huge pack of print outs with transactions, numbers, addresses, etc

- 20th Dec 12: I sent the FOS consumer questionnaire

- 5th Jan 13: Received a reply saying that after carrying out a full review (strategically mentioning the account that PPI had not been applied) my claim was rejected.

- 6th Jan 13: I posted on this thread, got advice and compiled my response.

- 7th Jan 13: I sent them all the documents mentioned above (FOS CQ, photocopies, cover letter)

- 26th Jan 13: SUCCESS! Received a letter from them saying that my complaint has been upheld.

 

 

So, thank you very much to this forum and to ims21 and dx100uk in particular. (off to make my donation... and send the acceptance form back of course!)

 

 

Theo

[ims21]

Hey great result...well done.

 

When you get the money in your account let us know and we can change the thread title to reflect your success.

 

Once again congratulations.

[theta]

No money in my account yet, but I received a confirmation letter from them a couple of days ago saying that they are "in the process of preparing your cheque which will be issued within the next 20 working days"!

 

Surprising how long it takes to prepare a cheque!

 

 

T

[theta]

Received the cheque yesterday morning! The money is already in my account!

 

Thanks a lot guys!!

[ims21]

Excellent stuff and congratulations.

 

I'll amend your thread title accordingly.

 

Don't forget CAG relies on donations so we can carry on helping people. See my signature

[dx100uk]

hey all good

 

now what puzzles me is the £2500 rebate

 

was there any sign of that in the SAR details?

 

though you said no.

 

dx

[theta]

There is a bit in the paperwork (under Loan PPI Rebate) where it says that I earned £2471.64. Adding the £2599.49 (which was in the settlement letter and described as "previous rebate paid to your loan as a result of your PPI being cancelled or would have been included as part of the settlement figure on early closure of your account) goes up to the total PPI amount of £5071.13.

 

I think I've mentioned that although I don't remember the exact figures there was a substantial reduction on the early settlement figure compared to what was showing on Egg's website at the time.

 

I just assumed that this discrepancy, or part of it, was due to the cancellation of my PPI when I settled the loan early.

[Inertia Creeps]

Well done with your claim and the outcome Theta. I also had a loan and a credit card with Egg which were taken out in late 2002 and early 2003. I only have the account numbers, no statements etc. I have sent Canda Square an SAR, from your posting I understand that you still managed to get account info from that time?

[theta]

Hi Inertia,

 

I did get the info that enabled me to get the refund, but if I remember right they are required to keep records for six years from the closure of the account.I settled my loan in 2008 so I was well within that period.

 

I think I read somewhere (probably here) that you might still be able to get something out of them even if that period has passed but I'm not sure about that.

 

Good luck with your claim!