Content of a CCA

[Halibutt]

I'm sure we all know that some CCA requests, when answered, do contain the required information - a copy of an agreement, original and varied terms and conditions, notification of default date (where applicable) and amounts received by the OC and subsequently the DCA.

 

I'd like to ask for clarification on a point though.

 

Where a full breakdown of payments to an alleged account is provided, by date, amounts in/out and balance, and no payments are shown for a clear six year period (or more) and the debt hasn't been acknowledged, would this legally be acceptable as written proof of statute barred status?

 

In other words, I'm presuming that the information provided is what the DCA or OC asserts to be a true and accurate statement of account and can be used as proof of SB status.

 

So, if, when challenged, they claim that a payment has been made within the 6 years (5 in Scotland) it would presumably be acceptable to point to the information they provided as full and incontravertible proof.

 

Thanks for any thoughts on this. It's not an urgent question, but I feel it may come up at some point soon for a friend I'm helping. Would be good to see how other CAG members view it.

 

Thanks.

 

H. x

 

.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

A CCA request should provide a copy of the agreement, and a statement

of the Current picture of the account, not an historic one I think.

 

The information you mention here would be provided by a SAR,

and would not be provided in the limited area of a CCA request.

 

For judging the status of a debt I would rely on the data provided

in the SAR.

[Halibutt]

Thanks Brigadier, I always know I can rely on you for helpful info!

 

I got my friend to SAR the company as well, which she did and she's so far received three identical responses - same info was supplied as in the CCA. I'm presuming that under the conditions of a SAR, a DCA is legally obliged to tell the truth and can't suddenly make up a "phantom payment" that they haven't mentioned when the SAR response was put together?

 

I'm slightly suspicious as my friend sent the £1 statutory fee with her request and also the £10 for the SAR and with both, the DCA replied that they were not charging her as a gesture of "goodwill" although they didn't return her postal orders!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The CCA request scope is limited a ''properly''

worded SAR should provide All the data held

onn the data subject.

There is however some grey area regarding the

provision of agreements with a SAR the ICO say

that though they ''might expect'' an agreement

to be provided there is actually no specific obligation

for it to so provide.

[rebel11]

Hi halibutt

 

Further info have a read of 5 and 6 in my signature. At the bottom of 6 there is a summary.

[Halibutt]

Thanks Brigadier and Rebel. Very helpful.

 

I'll be looking at arguing that if the SAR shows no payments over a six year period and no acknowledgement made, then Statute Barred status stands.

 

I'll have a good read too Rebel. Cheers for that!

 

P.S. Ah, I've already read and (surprisingly) understood the OFT guidelines and Carey v. HSBC judgement. Just hoping that the SAR info coupled with CCA will stand up as proof of no payments or acknowledgement made

Edited June 29, 2012 by Halibutt

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Good luck, keep us informed please.

Brig.

[Halibutt]

I certainly will my friend and thanks for all your help. I think this may be a rather protracted process, but we'll get there in the end!

[the_shadow]

Thanks Brigadier and Rebel. Very helpful.

 

I'll be looking at arguing that if the SAR shows no payments over a six year period and no acknowledgement made, then Statute Barred status stands.

 

I'll have a good read too Rebel. Cheers for that!

 

P.S. Ah, I've already read and (surprisingly) understood the OFT guidelines and Carey v. HSBC judgement. Just hoping that the SAR info coupled with CCA will stand up as proof of no payments or acknowledgement made

 

Just one slight caveat to that, the SB date is from when cause of action arises, in most t&c of credit cards/loans there is normally a period of non-payment PRIOR to the default and termination and hence the time when court action can take place, its 6 years (5 in Scotland) from that point. Normal industry standard is 3 months after the last payment missed imho so add a little to the end JUST TO BE SURE.

 

S.

[Halibutt]

Thanks Shadow - good reminder. I'm sure they'll contest our assertion anyway, but any and all advice is very welcomely received!

 

H. x

[Halibutt]

Shadow - statement of default from the OC was dated December 2000. Payments stopped a few years later, but not quite six years at the moment.

 

This has been going on for a long time. Should we still add the extra three months from the 6 years date just to be on the safe side? That would change SB date from beginning of November this year to beginning of February 2013.

 

Also, is it a legal requirement that a SAR truly reflects all payments/refunds on an alleged account as at the date of sending? Meaning that if the provider of the SAR has missed out payments supposedly made, they can't then go back on the SAR information they provided without getting into trouble?

 

Thanks for any further advice

Edited June 30, 2012 by Halibutt

[lookinforinfo]

You should check that the £11 payments have not been subtracted from the debt otherwise it will appear that the SB will then be pushed back a further 6 years.

[Halibutt]

Thanks. There's nothing whatsoever showing either the £1 CCA request or £10 SAR on the information they sent, dated up until the end of May this year. CCA request was sent in 2010 and the SAR was sent last year.

 

When my friend sent the Postal Orders to cover the statutory fees, I made sure she wrote, "To be used only to cover statutory fee for CCA Request/SAR" on them, scanned both and we kept both the post office counterfoils and Post Office receipts in both cases, clipped to the accompanying appropriate letters.

 

I don't trust DCAs and was well aware, thanks to CAG, that sometimes statutory fees are used to fraudulently make payments on accounts * Allegedly*

[the_shadow]

Shadow - statement of default from the OC was dated December 2000. Payments stopped a few years later, but not quite six years at the moment.

 

This has been going on for a long time. Should we still add the extra three months from the 6 years date just to be on the safe side? That would change SB date from beginning of November this year to beginning of February 2013.

 

It really is down to the t&c, like I say industry standard for credit cards is 3 months after last payment missed but I think it safer to wait myself.

 

Also, is it a legal requirement that a SAR truly reflects all payments/refunds on an alleged account as at the date of sending? Meaning that if the provider of the SAR has missed out payments supposedly made, they can't then go back on the SAR information they provided without getting into trouble?

 

Thanks for any further advice

 

A Sar must show all information they hold on you, it doesnt have to be accurate/legit or otherwise as far as the ICO is concerned it just has to be all the data THEY hold on YOU in a format that they wish to give it to you as well, doesnt have to be the original.

 

The accuracy of data is more to do with the basic running of an account and money laundering / bank / CCA regulations

 

S.

[Halibutt]

Okay, thanks for that. I'll tell her to hold fire for a bit then!

 

I would have thought that if info doesn't have to be accurate/legit then that sort of defeats the object of requesting one though LOL

[the_shadow]

Always good to keep a record of letters sent / received to a DCA / OC, if you have the original letter and a photocopy then it'll be game over if they try and claim it was a payment made towards the alleged debt.

 

I have 6 files full of letters (one for each lender)

S.

[Halibutt]

Thanks Shadow, yup, I've got all my own files and have made sure my friend keeps her's too. I keep everything - letters and envelopes received, letters sent, post office proof of posting, copies of enclosures, etc.

 

It can be a bit time consuming, but certainly worthwhile if a query ever arises. Just goes to show that the CAG advice of trying to keep everything in writing only is very good - I've relied on it a couple of times now myself!

Edited July 1, 2012 by Halibutt

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

It has to be the best piece of advice ever a verbal agreement is not

worth the paper it's written on:madgrin:

[Halibutt]

It has to be the best piece of advice ever a verbal agreement is not

worth the paper it's written on:madgrin:

 

Brigadier - in the words of the great Churchill himself, "Oh yes."