Panarama (?) - Shop Lifting

[Yorky2008]

Watched the program on shopifting and store detectives (think it was Panarama) and was quite surprised by the amount of physical restraint they used , in several cases I thought it was over the top and they just seemed to jump on people for their own satisfaction. Made me wince several times!

 

ONe particular case a man was agitated and partly drew his arm back then relaxed, put his arm down and was talking to the store detective, who then himself got agitated and jumped on man wrestling him to the floor when at the time he was not threatening him!

 

Exactly what amount of force are they allowed to use and in what circumstances?

[Sidewinder]

There is nothing to say what is allowed other than 'such force as is reasonable in the circumstances' Therefore mitigation might be the attempts of a suspect to escape or a refusal to stop, violence or threats of violence - ultimately it would be for a Court to decide whether the degree of restraint or force was reasonable if an allegation was made.

 

I saw that programme too and felt equally uneasy at some of the techniques used.

[LaughingGirl]

Didn't see the programme, but I've been curious about this ever since I witnessed security guards 'restraining' a shoplifter at a well known supermarket. The level of force used was (IMOO) highly excessive. I don't condone theft, but I'm really uncomfortable with the concept of four security guards kneeling on and choking one man to retrieve a £9.00 bottle of own brand vodka.

 

When was this on, Yorky? I can't find it on iPlayer, and I'd be interested to see it.

[Sidewinder]

Here you go http://www.channel4.com/programmes/secrets-of-the-shoplifters/4od

 

It was on C4 - Secrets Of The Shoplifters

 

Agree entirely that some (but not all, as I have seen some pretty threatening behaviour from genuine shoplifters first hand) store security staff are inclined to treat the uniform as a licence to act as Judge, Jury and Executioner...

[LaughingGirl]

Many thanks, Sidewinder.

 

Absolutely, I do think that most security guards do a difficult job under difficult circumstances.

[2Grumpy]

I particularly liked the "put your hands anywhere near your pockets and we will have to restrain you" - and they did with 3 people sitting on him. Whilst the guy might have had a knife, they should have put themselves in a position where they weren't trapped if he had one.

 

It shows even more clearly how important it is to just return to a public area in the shop & not go to their little room ...

 

I was shocked by one of the security staff grabbing a bag from someone in the street.

 

The level of force was an eye-opener.

[LaughingGirl]

Having watched it all I can say is 'oh dear'. I heard one of the security guards say to one of the guys he was detaining "Do that again and you're going to get hurt". Surely that's got to be ropey ground legally? I understand that they can legally restrain someone, but I would have thought that crossed the line into threatening behaviour?

 

As for the guy being restrained by the three men sitting on him (what an obnoxious human being he was), as far as I could see at the moment they decided to 'put him on the deck' he wasn't actually doing anything - unless you count being a complete . It confuses me, because my OH is an ex-pub landlord and had to put up with morons all the time. If he and his staff decided to pin someone to the ground every time someone got mouthy about not getting served any more alcohol, I guarantee you he'd have been in court by now. He got told off by the Police once for frog-marching a man out of the pub because he back-handed his girlfriend during a 21st birthday party - he was strongly advised not to involve himself in any physical disputes in future, and to call the Police instead (which went down like a lead balloon with the clientele and nearly caused another ruck, incidentally). Surely restraint is more warranted to prevent further physical violence than it is to retrieve property?

 

Also, times have apparently changed - 16 years ago, while I was working for Our Price records, all staff were told that pursuit and restraint of shoplifters was a sackable offence. We were to observe the person until they left the store and then call the Police.

 

I feel like I have to keep stressing that I hate shoplifting. It winds me up that people feel like they are entitled to something for free while others either do without or save up for things. I just feel really strongly that we already have a Police force and a court system, and I hate the idea of 'justice' being handed over to private security firms and RLP.

 

Sorry chaps, rant over. Carry on!

[Yorky2008]

Grumpy - Oh yes I had forgotten about that, if that had been me I would have swung around and lamped him one! No challenge or anything so could have been anyone attacking you!

 

There were several occasions where people had calmed down and were not posing any threat but they just threatened them with violence and then pounced anyway. As someone said earlier it reinforces the statement 'do not go in the "security room"' stay outside where everyone can see you and all occurences will be on the store CCTV.

 

I thought the 2 guys who actually followed people around on their day off was a bit weird! Not sure of the legal consequences either if they are not technially being employed at the time - what happens if they injure someone?

 

Yorky

[Sidewinder]

 

I thought the 2 guys who actually followed people around on their day off was a bit weird! Not sure of the legal consequences either if they are not technially being employed at the time - what happens if they injure someone?

 

 

Absolutely! Especially when they are carrying handcuffs

[2Grumpy]

I must admit that I didn't have any sympathy for any of them. They were all presented as practiced thieves, but even regular thieves deserve due process by law & not to be assaulted by the security guys. (But I am now wondering if any of it was staged so that they could be shown to be a bit more violent than they could get away with usually)

[bio]

Simple answer is don't go stealing from shops!

 

To be honest though, the security guards have got to be wary of whoever they are tackling, as they never know if anyone is armed with a knife or maybe a dirty needle. It is very easy to post from the safety of an internet forum.

[Yorky2008]

I agree do not go stealing from shops however two wrongs do not make a right and some of their actions were completely out of order in my view. If they had any doubt about concealed weapons they should have left them alone in the room and waited for the police to arrive. I am surprised that they did not end up getting themselves in a serious situation. My first thought if someone snatched my bag in the street with no warning would be a mugger and I defend myself. If my family were with me I would make sure they were defended as well and I have no doubt I would put even more effort in than if i was trying to protect myself.

 

Regarding the guy with handcuffs, didnt he say that the police had already confiscated them from him once and he had only just go them back? Yet there he was displaying them again!

 

Yorky.