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      If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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      Hello,

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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

False/dodgy MOT **** RESOLVED ****

Drewmond

By Drewmond
in General Motoring Issues

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sailor sam

sailor sam

Posted
Posted

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

This link may be of help; http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/c_buying_at_auction.pdf

 

Are we sure that the car hasn't been involved in an accident? Did you HPI it?

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

 

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sailor sam

sailor sam

Posted
Posted

Apparently if yiou can trace the previous owner (and the car does have a dodgy MOT), then you may have an avenue to persue even if the previous owner was not a trader (as you say in your post #3). I'm not sure what action you can take under these circumstances so my advice would be to consult Trading Standards/Consumer Direct for their advice on what options are available to you. Please keep us posted.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

 

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sailor sam

sailor sam

Posted
Posted

Errr, what has happened here? Can someone explain some missing posts... would be useful.

 

In the meantime Drewmond, I have had a further thought about the previous owner/RK. It may be the case that the person shown on the V5 as being the RK may not have entered the car into the auction. It may be the case that that person has traded in the car to a dealer (who would not appear on the V5) and the dealer has put it into the auction. In which case you may be able to persue under the SOGA after all. Obviously you will only discover this when you contcat the previous RK.

 

As for the suggestion of sticking the car back into an auction from another cagger, can I assure you that this is not typical of the advice given on CAG. We prefer to give advice other than you would get in a back street pub over a game of darts. It worriies me that perhaps those who give that kind of advice are themselves 'traders' who do that kind of thing which gives the use car industry a bad name.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

 

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sailor sam

sailor sam

Posted
Posted

Can the site team please explain why both my and the OPs posts have been removed please?

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

 

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sailor sam

sailor sam

Posted
Posted
I think you've answered your own question in your request to the site team.

 

Not really rebel.... did the posts not conform to the forum rules or something? I think the OP will be interested in what action or opinion you have as he himself responded to the 'advice' I referred to.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

 

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sailor sam

sailor sam

Posted
Posted

@ Bob, I don't agree that it was good advice to off load the car onto someone else, its as simple as that.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

 

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sailor sam

sailor sam

Posted
Posted

Well as you said previously Drewmond, you have the previous RKs details so it would be interesting to find out who entered the car into the auction. My money is it was a trader which would be good news for you IMHO. Good news with VOSA as well. Please keep us posted as this story may assist others if the are considering buying from an auction. I can't help wondering how you would of felt if you had of followed the advice of my 'felllow' caggers and then seen that the car had been involved in a fatal accident on the news...

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

 

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sailor sam

sailor sam

Posted
Posted
Hi Drewmond

 

I already said as much and indeed you included it in your quote ''(NOT suggesting this at the OP he knew he was taking a chance). ''... indeed dodgy mots can and should be stopped.

 

I really don't think yuo'll have much joy against the seller.. .who is more than likely in the trade... despite other thuoghts on here, which might be right, I am firly of the opinion that a SAS auction car is sold in that way and that SOGA will not apply in a trade auction hall.

 

But you are def doing the right thing by pursuibg the MOT station as far as you possibly can, but the seller / owner did not do the mot and cannot be held responsible for it so I very much doubt there is any mileage for yuo there, but hey, good luck if there is, I just doubt it.

 

Bob, have a very careful read of this which I posted earlier... you may learn something.

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/c_buying_at_auction.pdf

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

 

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sailor sam

sailor sam

Posted
Posted
Interesting development... I have found the car I have bought still up for sale in a classified advert.

 

It would appear that the last registered keeper on the V5 was not the seller. The person who has it up for sale (I'm guessing they have forgotten to remove the classified advert) is using a trade name, although there's no indication if they are actually a registered trader. Coincidentally they are selling out of the same very small town where the MOT station is located. They currently have 7 other cars for sale too (most boasting a full years MOT :roll:).

 

The good thing is I now have a name and a phone number for them and I don't think it will take much effort to get an address. I've printed out the advert showing the car with the number plate clearly displayed and the description they have given it. It's looking less likely that this car is a trade in that was shoved it through auction to get rid and more likely that they bought it as a shed, used some spit and gaffer tape to put a dodgy MOT on it and then tried to flog it for as much as possible.

 

Now there is a surprise! Looks like my bet was right on the money! Well this could certainly change things. Unlike others on here, I don't believe that a trader putting a car through an auction avoids the SOGA. If it were that case, think how many consumers could be ripped off like yourself. I think you should now see what consumer direct/trading standards have to say armed with this evidence Drewmond becasue according to that link I provided the only people which the SOGA dosn't apply to is the auction house, so the trader who put it into the auction can still be liable. TS also should be looking into this trader disposing of cars through the auction that are potentiailly unroadworthy.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

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sailor sam

sailor sam

Posted
Posted

Graham & Bob, I don't know why you keep missing it but i'll point it out to you. According to that link I provided (if you read it carefully enough), whenbuying from an auction house you enter into a contract with the OWNER of the car and not the auctioneer. It then folows that if there is a problem, you persue the owner who IF a private individual can only be persued under the SOGA if the car was falsely advertised. However, if the owner is a trader then the normal avenues will be available under the SOGA. As it happens, the OP has now found out that the car was sold via auction by a trader AND this is why I have advised him to clarify his position with TS/Consumer direct. Now when he does that, no doubt he will come back and let us know what they say. Bob, I am a little more impressed with your post (#46) in respect of excepting part exchanges from Joe public. I 100% agree with you there. You have redeemed yourself! However, i am stiil interested to know the opinions of others on advising putting a faulty car back into an auction. When I say faulty, I mean a car which you know would not pass an MOT i.e. unroadworthy.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

 

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sailor sam

sailor sam

Posted
Posted
Yes Sam, I'd already seen it: and its still good advice: but your stance and insistence that the OP has rights against the seller has changed since then, you seem more definite that he can win if he follows what you say, or so it appears to me.

 

Like I already said, we can go no further until the OP lets us know of his rights or lack of them in this case. I must say he appears very sensible and realistic about the whole thing.

 

Don't think i've said he will win. What I have said is that he should take advice from TS to see what his options are. (see post #27)

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

 

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sailor sam

sailor sam

Posted
Posted
You forgot helios and even the OP himself saying he knows cars at auction are sold as seen.

 

The OP has clicked my reputation button and left a positive comment.. has he done the same for you?

 

Anyway I shall post no more until the OP has been and got proper legal advice and comes back to us.

 

Good idea.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

 

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sailor sam

sailor sam

Posted
Posted

Martin, can you respond to my post #45 please. (well 45 atm at least!)

BTW, i havn't asked for any posts to be removed. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

 

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