Changes at HFO / Turnbull Rutherford – Quarterdeck Law Ltd

[DonkeyB]

Some points of fun.

 

In their 2007 accounts, £400,000 was paid out to the directors of HFO (UK) Holdings.

 

The 2008 accounts showed that HFO (UK) Holdings owned 100% of HFO Services Ltd.

 

And we believe that HFO Services has effectively been shut down as an operation, but it does, of course, own considerable assets in assigned accounts. Wonder what’s happened to those assets?

 

Those same accounts stated that the parent company of HFO (UK) Holdings was HFO Capital Ltd (Ireland) and that the ultimate parent was Concilian Group in Malta.

 

I am on the hunt... for smells.

[DonkeyB]

Those 2007 accounts stated that HFO Services’ costs were recharged to HFO (UK) Holdings. But that does not mean the employees work for Holdings, as now seems to be the case. Just digging out the later accounts...

[DonkeyB]

The 2010 accounts show that HFO Services Ltd remained a fully owned subsidiary. But the HFOS accounts show its net worth at a few tens of thousands. Moving money around – this is why ruthless investors like Badri Nathan and his henchmen run groups of companies, where the transparency for proper group accounts disappears as soon as you reach Concilian – but, sadly, there’s nothing illegal about it.

[DonkeyB]

So, what will happen to HFO Services Ltd now?

 

It is a separate legal entity, but is an asset of HFO (UK) Holdings, and so its value must be liquidated.

 

Now, I’m not in any way suggesting this is a true scenario, but I do hope the liquidators are fully aware of the level of assets that HFO Services Ltd actually owns, ie. all that 12% and 17% interest that has been accumulating must be recorded somewhere, I hope... and there were an AWFUL lot of accounts transferred from HFO Capital Cayman to HFO Services. I can think of £100k worth through Caggers I know off the top of my head.

 

I would hate to see a situation where HFO Services is sold off for a nominal sum... hope there aren’t any pre-packs in place...

 

Has anyone told the OFT yet?

[DonkeyB]

HFO Holdings – going. HFO Services – hopefully going too.

 

HFO Capital Ireland – hopefully on the way out.

 

Yet after years of trying to close these sods down, it all feels a bit damp-squibbish... yeehah.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I wonder who BC will palm all their lemons

off to now.

[DonkeyB]

Actually BC haven't sold them anything since 2007!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Actually BC haven't sold them anything since 2007!

 

My mistake:madgrin:

[DonkeyB]

Which is why it was a scandal for HFO to be telling people in 2011 for the first time that their accounts had been assigned...

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Which is why it was a scandal for HFO to be telling people in 2011 for the first time that their accounts had been assigned...

There in lies my confusion.

[DonkeyB]

... and the confusion of everyone who started getting ‘reminder’ NoAs when none had been sent in the first place!

[theghost]

Is this 'company down' as in

 

a) they are just reshuffling or b) they have gone out of business

[DonkeyB]

Which company? Read the whole thread and all should be clear!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Which company? Read the whole thread and all should be clear!

[broken arrow]

So, what will happen to HFO Services Ltd now?

 

It is a separate legal entity, but is an asset of HFO (UK) Holdings, and so its value must be liquidated.

 

Now, I’m not in any way suggesting this is a true scenario, but I do hope the liquidators are fully aware of the level of assets that HFO Services Ltd actually owns, ie. all that 12% and 17% interest that has been accumulating must be recorded somewhere, I hope... and there were an AWFUL lot of accounts transferred from HFO Capital Cayman to HFO Services. I can think of £100k worth through Caggers I know off the top of my head.

 

I would hate to see a situation where HFO Services is sold off for a nominal sum... hope there aren’t any pre-packs in place...

 

Has anyone told the OFT yet?

 

According to CP2 all accounts were sold to Services, thats if you believe what they put in writing........

[sillygirl1]

Interesting, the tangled web they wove is coming undone, they obviously used the 'thief'' knot (a version of the reef knot)....

[Innsmouth]

Very interesting indeed.

[theghost]

Which company? Read the whole thread and all should be clear!

 

What I mean is, is HFO 'the business' gone dow nthe pan or are they just re-jigging their corporate structure? The latter is all too common - especially amongst questionnable businesses! But obviously it means they will still be trading, just under a different Ltd company.

[DonkeyB]

I’m drawing a diagram to illustrate the labyrinth as I see it...

[ScarletPimpernel]

..and waaay behind CAG, Cretin Today makes this its top story this week.

 

Curiously, the DCAs' favourite comic fails to mention that the OFT is 'minded to revoke' consumer credit licences relating to various HFO/TR companies. Funny, that.

[babybear39]

http://www.credittoday.co.uk/article/13439/online-news/dca-placed-into-liquidation

[andydd]

Lots of familiar names in that article..although its unclear what the current situation is, Im sure HFO still exists in some form.

 

Andy

[DonkeyB]

HFO Services and HFO Capital do indeed continue.

 

HFO Capital Ltd, Ireland, is the parent company of HFO (UK) Holdings Ltd and Roxburghe. Both are trading normally, I would expect (except that HFO Services now appears to be all but a shell, with account management transferred to Roxburghe).

 

In turn, HFO (UK) Holdings Ltd owns 100% of HFO Services Ltd. So HFO Services Ltd is an asset of the company in liquidation. Its stated value of £2 is the share capital, a technicality.

 

Therefore the liquidators’s duty is to realise as much as possible from the disposal of HFO Services Ltd.

 

This is where things are odd. As HFO Services is a separate legal entity with published accounts, I do not understand why Badri Nathan could not put a value on it. I do not believe a person like him would not know the exact value of his investments at the end of every day or the end of every week.

 

Let’s hope that HFO Services and its assets – which means a lot of Caggers’ accounts – is disposed of properly, and that there is no convenient ‘pre pack’ arrangement in place.

[Lady Lou]

Could you tell me what a pre-pack arrangement would be?

 

Just wondering what these changes with HFO will mean?

[DonkeyB]

A pre-pack is where a company goes into liquidation with the intent of setting up a company to buy the assets of the liquidating company and then continue the same business, with the assets usually at a knock-down price, but where the new organisation is debt free. It is legal but smells. Here’s an example in the news:

 

http://www.business-sale.com/news/article/bonmarche-snapped-up-in-a-prepack-administration-35806.html

 

And here’s the Government response to such deals:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/tax/9067416/Taxman-to-target-firms-who-avoid-debts-using-pre-pack-administrations.html

 

Of course, I’m not suggesting this is happening, but such deals tend to occur when the liquidation is voluntary.