Cap1 & CCA return

[MAGDA]

Hi, Can anyone help. I have requested a CCA from my bank for an overdraft, as I believe there should be a letter detailing the terms and conditions of the overdraft at the time. However, the bank have written back stating that they no longer have a copy of this letter as their computer system was changed. They seem to think that the copy statments and printouts of the day to day activity on the account at that time are sufficient (the statments do show (at the bottom) the interest rate being charged on the overdraft during that period.

 

Is this correct and is the debt still enforceable without the letter, as the bank have been particularly unpleasant and threatening recently, prior to my request for the CCA.

 

Many thanks,

 

Magda

[MAGDA]

Hi, thanks for that, I have been making regular payments and wasn't trying to ignore the debt, but as they have been so threatening recently, just wanted to know what my position is with regard to the bank being able to legally enforce the debt so thanks for your comments and I would be grateful for any other opinions/comments on this.

 

thanks,

Magda

[MAGDA]

Hi, yes, it does seem pretty complicated compared to other consumer credit agreements, but the bank do seem to have gone very quiet since writing to say they don't have a copy of the letter sent at the time of the overdraft being granted, I'm sure it won't be too long before they are back in touch again though! Many thanks for your comments.

 

Magda

[MAGDA]

Hi Car2403, as my bank haven't managed to provide a copy of anything in writing which it clearly states they should,(apart from copy statements) I would think I can then use this as a defence also if they decide to pursue court action, I knew what the interest rate was at the time, but I did not receive anything advising me on how to terminate the agreement and when the account fell into difficulties, I was not informed of the interest and charges applicable either.

 

Good luck with your case against Barclays by the way!

Magda

[MAGDA]

Hi, I posted recently about a problem with a Bank o/d, and was given some very helpful info. Just wanted to quote the comments made in the last letter received from Natwest to find out if they are in fact correct. It states: "You requested a copy of the letter sent to you when you converted your account to and advantage premier in July 2002, regrettably, due to the passage of time this document is no longer available. However, I would refer to the ledgers provided with my letter which clearly state the interest rate being applied to it. The bank switched to a new computer system in october 2002, and messages about interest rate applicable to your account were printed on the information sheet issued with statements." I switched my account as they clearly state in July 2002 prior to their change of computer system, and I did not as far as I recall, receive anything in writing re: terms of the account and overdraft, which was also changed at this point. the copy statements issued by the bank dating back to July 2002, when account was apparently changed do state that the interest rate for borrowing was 8.5% and interest rate for borrowing above this level 22.5% PA. Does this satisfy their obligation re: CCA.

Thanks for any help

Magda

[MAGDA]

thanx car2403 for your reply yesterday, it's a big help, as at the moment I am trying to find out as much as I can about the legalities of the overdraft, as the bank have been particularly unpleasant recently. I will now write to them again, and hopefully will have a better response this time. Not holding my breath though! Good luck with Barclays.

 

Thanks again

Magda

[MAGDA]

Hi, wonder if you can help, I have CCA'd one of my creditors - 1st Credit Finance Ltd and today received a copy of the Priority Application Form, signed by me, which states at the top Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, followed by "How to Apply" It is then just a standard application form, i.e., which on completion I signed. Is this actually a consumer credit agrement as the creditor claims? Thanks for any help.

Magda

[MAGDA]

Just to add something, have spoken to the creditor'S solicitors since making the post above, and they are dealing with my enquiry for a cca (I believe they are itching to take me to court at present, although I make regular payment (another creditor wanting a charge on an unsecured debt). The person acting for the firm of solicitors has said that the application is a consumer credit agreement and they do not need to provide anything else in order to take me to court. I disputed this and said that it is infact an application, containing only pesonal information and nothing on how the account would operate post contractually. The person said as it has my signature on the application I agreed to the debt, and also she pointed out the fact that it states on the application form "Credit Agreement regulated by the consumer credit Act 1974. I left it that I will write putting my case forward to them. Really grateful if you can help with this, Many thanks,

Magda

[MAGDA]

Hi again, thanx a lot for the replies, have scanned it in, not sure if you will be able to read it or if I have done it correctly, but here goes, (by the way, there weren't any terms of conditions attached/enclosed) This was basically it. Magda

[MAGDA]

nothing at all, just something about payment protection if you require it, and the rest is just personal details

magda

[MAGDA]

sorry, it's a bit small isn't it! the info is on the form is mostly just what I filled in, i.e. name and address etc, income, dob, that kind of thing, then additional card holder and the payment protection thing, then my signature, I really appreciate all the comments today, it really is a massive help, so thanks again

Magda

[MAGDA]

No,nothing at all, that final paragraph after 'safeguard your payments' is just saying that you confirm you wish to apply for an mbna credit card that is it, although it does say I have received a copy of and agree to be bound by the mbna terms and conditions, although I hadn't received these

[MAGDA]

nothing at all about any APR or anything else

[MAGDA]

thanks so much for that - will get a letter off to them tomorrow. It's fantastic to have this forum, otherwise we would be completely stuck, and I certainly need all the help I can get! Thanks for all the replies,

 

Magda

[MAGDA]

Actually, just one more question, doesn't it matter that is says it is a consumer credit agreement at the top of the application form, I picked up a credit card application at the supermarket earlier, and they now seem to have the application on one side, i.e. all the personal info like the copy of the form I posted and then, terms and conditions on the back which needs to also be signed. Just worried that they will say their form was in this format and that in actual fact the copy I have had covers their obligation as far as the CCA is concerned. Sorry to be a pain!

Magda

[MAGDA]

Thanks for that. Was just a bit worried because 1st Credit's solicitor pointed out the 'Consumer Credit Agreement' wording today, and said that if I wanted to defend their claim then to go ahead, but the form they sent (posted on the forum today) was all they needed to take court action, so it's nice to know that they are basically talking rubbish. I will get that letter off tomorrow re: Having a Nightmare (thanks ) and hopefully that will give them something to think about!

Magda

[MAGDA]

Yes, I think you are right. It's really easy to be intimidated by these companies and their solicitors because they seem to know all the facts. Since reading the comments on these forums though, including your own, have realised that isn't always the case. One thing I would like to say is I think I have (unintentionally) been guilty of 'highjacking' threads, which I really haven't meant to do. I now realise I should be posting a new thread! This is the first time I have used any forum, so apologies for that. YOU have all been so helpful and I will keep you posted on the outcome of this. Magda

[MAGDA]

That's very interesting B3rty. I did wonder if they were actual solicitors or not, and now I know. The 'solicitor' I spoke to on the phone who is apparently handling the case (they intend to take court action in the hope of getting a charge on our property) didn't seem particularly knowledgeable and kept pointing out the fact that the application form states at the top 'This is a consumer credit agreement'. LSC certainly don't seem to be a very reputable from what you say and from my own dealings with them. One worry I do have is if LSC proceed with their claim despite not being able to produce the actual CCA, and I defend it, would a court actually take any notice of my defence re: CCA, or would they allow LSC to proceed with their claim? Thanks

Magda

[MAGDA]

I'm going to get the letter off today as suggested by Having a Knightmare. I do feel a lot better about all of this now as knowledge is a very powerful weapon and there is certainly plenty of that on this site. I will keep you posted on any outcome and it's nice to know if I need any futher help, then I can ask. Thanks again for all the help.

Magda

[MAGDA]

Good luck B3rty - let's hope we both get the outcome we wish! I'm sure everything will be fine in the end, as you say, they do try to call your bluff and hope that you will back down. The problem is they pick on a lot of very vulnerable people, such as the elderly, who simply go along with whatever these companie say, so it's good that some people are starting to think differently about this kind of thing. Did they send you the Application Form as well by the way, passing it off as the actual CCA?

[MAGDA]

Hi, is it correct that the Consumer Credit Act 2006 will bring about changes to the enforcement of Credit Agreements. From the articles I have read, it would appear that it will be up to the courts discretion whether or not they think an agreement should in fact be enforceable, despite it not containing all of the prescribed terms? Does anyone have any info on this. Magda

[MAGDA]

Total unenforceability and other court powers

The new Act will remove the possibility for agreements to be totally unenforceable because they do not comply with the technical requirements of the CCA Agreements Regulations Instead, where defects arise in the form and content of agreements, the court will have a discretion as to whether to enforce the agreement or not.

[MAGDA]

Thanks for the info re: CCA 2006. Just wondered also whether the prescribed terms for a store card (GE Money) Agreement is required to include the repayment details. I had a reply on another thread of mine, which included a link from Peter, that stated this as a requirement for Credit Cards, so guess store cards would be fairly similar.

 

Thanks, Magda

[MAGDA]

Hi Car2403, Isn't it the case that the changes brought about by the 2006 Act apply to agreements entered into after April 2007 only, in which case the judge does have discretion on whether a debt is uneforceable or not. Agreements entered into prior to this fall under the 1974 Act, as per PT2537 post yesterday. Or have I misunderstood this completely? Thanks Magda

[MAGDA]

Yes, sorry Car, hadn't realised, this had already been clarified in some of the posts following that one. Magda