Employment problems

[JohnInMillwall]

Hi I have a couple of questions for you geniuses that live amongst this forum

 

1st) Can a company investigate you into gross misconduct relating to not following "the companies cash handling procedures" without actually ever been given a copy of cash handling procedures. Nor did my manager ever train me into any cash procedures. Nor did anybody in the work place receive any cash handling procedures or training. What is the law on this? Shouldn't I of at least been trained.

 

2nd) Can a company investigate you only at a certain point despite others investigated under similar circumstances displayed in their various meetings with managers and etc. having told management that they took a certain role and one particular individual claiming a different story. My point here may be particularly hazy but I would like to point out if a work colleague stated that he said something and management have stated otherwise and that I was there only line of investigation currently surely this is a wrong and incorrect practice.

 

3rd) Bad morale due to the investigation. Where do I stand here? This investigation has created bad morale in the workplace. Is there a case of mishandling the investigation here? What are the remedies if any for this circumstance.

 

4th) Can an employer dismiss you alone for not following procedures that I was never given and can they fire you on the suspicion of theft without any proof and proof and truthful statements from other employees involved would lead to management believing that more than one person had the opportunity to take the money or misplace it?

 

5th) Can I bring a solicitor to any meeting that takes place next even if my employer doesn't offer that?

 

6th) Is receiving a letter for a formal meeting investigating gross misconduct acceptable on the day of the investigation, a couple of hours before in fact, acceptable?

 

I would really appreciate some help here. This has gone on for a couple of weeks now and I have done nothing wrong and feel as if the blame is coming my way. I want to fight this to the end.

 

Thanks.

[RachelMD]

Hi I have a couple of questions for you geniuses that live amongst this forum

It's genii, actually. Or Rachels.

 

1st) Can a company investigate you into gross misconduct relating to not following "the companies cash handling procedures" without actually ever been given a copy of cash handling procedures. Nor did my manager ever train me into any cash procedures. Nor did anybody in the work place receive any cash handling procedures or training. What is the law on this? Shouldn't I of at least been trained.

Yes. Not having ever seen a copy of the procedures or benn given any training would be defences to argue at the disciplinary hearing.

Though if they were to pursue a disciplinary investigation which clearly was for an ulterior purpose such as to harass you would give you cause to issue a grievance.

2nd) Can a company investigate you only at a certain point despite others investigated under similar circumstances displayed in their various meetings with managers and etc. having told management that they took a certain role and one particular individual claiming a different story. My point here may be particularly hazy but I would like to point out if a work colleague stated that he said something and management have stated otherwise and that I was there only line of investigation currently surely this is a wrong and incorrect practice.

Don't understand, sorry.

 

3rd) Bad morale due to the investigation. Where do I stand here? This investigation has created bad morale in the workplace. Is there a case of mishandling the investigation here? What are the remedies if any for this circumstance.

Again, as with 1). They're entitled to investigate, even if the allegation is flawed. You have to suck it up and not react.

Are they acting in accordance with the company D&G procedure, or at least in accordance with the ACAS code of paractice on D&G procedures?

Again, if there's undue or unreasonable hostility, it's grievance time.

 

4th) Can an employer dismiss you alone for not following procedures that I was never given and can they fire you on the suspicion of theft without any proof and proof and truthful statements from other employees involved would lead to management believing that more than one person had the opportunity to take the money or misplace it?

An employer needs to have 'reasonable suspicion that you're guilty. So they don't have to prove ' beyond all reasonable doubt' like in a criminal court, but they do have to have solid substantiable grounds for coming to their decision. Sadly, if there's more than 1 person who might be guilty, they can dismiss all of them if they can't assertain who is the guilty individual.

Again, not having ever been given the procedure would be a mitigating factor that might render the dismissal unfair.

5th) Can I bring a solicitor to any meeting that takes place next even if my employer doesn't offer that?

There is case law of circumstances where this has been deemed reasonable, but they are situations where an individual is facing an allegation so serious that if found guilty they face never being able to work in that profession again and their career being ruined- such as a teacher having an inappropriate relationship with a student etc.

 

6th) Is receiving a letter for a formal meeting investigating gross misconduct acceptable on the day of the investigation, a couple of hours before in fact, acceptable?

For an investigatory interview, for the purpose of fact-finding, usually yes. It depends on the company's disc. procedure.

You must, however, be given reasonable notice of a disciplinary hearing and copies of evidence they intend to rely on, to allow you to adequetely prepare your case.

I would really appreciate some help here. This has gone on for a couple of weeks now and I have done nothing wrong and feel as if the blame is coming my way. I want to fight this to the end.

 

Thanks.

bkbvBHOIUHtyuukl

[gingerpig]

Point 1 Yes you should have been trained and the company should have signed training records to prove you have been trained.

Point 2 Sorry I don't understand this please clarify.

Point 3 Raise a formal greivance.

Point 4 An employer only needs a "reasonable belief of wrongdoing" to dismiss

Point 5 You have the right to be accompanied by whoever you choose, however a solicitor will cost you an arm and a leg!

Point 6 Not acceptable - you should get at least 24 hours notice to enable you to arrange representation and study any documents / evidence they intend to use

[RachelMD]

Point 1 Yes you should have been trained and the company should have signed training records to prove you have been trained.

Point 2 Sorry I don't understand this please clarify.

Point 3 Raise a formal greivance.

Point 4 An employer only needs a "reasonable belief of wrongdoing" to dismiss

Point 5 You have the right to be accompanied by whoever you choose, however a solicitor will cost you an arm and a leg!

No you don't, unless there is contractual provision.

Point 6 Not acceptable - you should get at least 24 hours notice to enable you to arrange representation and study any documents / evidence they intend to use

Not for an investigatory interview, again unless there is contractual provision. For a disciplinary hearing yes.

Welcome Gingerpig.

[paulgmb]

Hi John,

Good advice above. What you have to understand with employment law is that it is different to criminal law. If an employer has 'Reasonable belief' that you and/or others stole this can be good enough to dismiss you and others!!

I don't understand 2 either, please explain.

Concentrating on the disciplinary. If you are a member of a union you should ask a union rep to accompany you to the hearings. Most companies won't let you bring a solicitor except in cases as quoted above. You should ask a work colleague to come with you and to take notes at all stages. Don't sign anything you don't agree with or have had chance to read properly.

The fact you have not been trained or given copies of procedures should help your case greatly. Make sure you make a calm and rational argument at all stages. Have you been suspended?

The best advise is to keep cool. As long as your company is following procedures, just go with it. Make sure you have a copy of the procedure too.

Good luck, lastly, Come on you lions!