Registered keeper, not owner

[innertemple]

Hi,

I have a query, not sure if this is the right place for it but here goes.

My partner and i bought a van over 6 years ago. I paid most of the money for it at the time, but it was for her use as i do not drive. Since that time it has had its problems, especially in the last couple of years and has needed some repairs which i couldnt afford, as i had been made redundant. Her nan paid for two lots of repairs on it and as these totalled around about what the van was worth (approx £1000), she did it on the basis the van was all my partners, which it was anyway as far as i was concerned. She now uses it and needs it to get to work in a village. She cant get public transport where she needs to go.

 

The point is, when we first got the car we agreed i was put down as the registered keeper, as i was in full time employment and was easier for me to have the insurance payments going from my account and more importantly meant i could purchase out tax discs online.

Even though, we always took it that she owned the vehicle, it was a requirement to be the registered keeper when purchasing the tax online, which i did as i was the earner and we dont have any joint accounts.

I never worried about this being a problem until now, as since being made redundant i have creditors harrassing me constantly and am worried about the car being at risk of being seized in the future.

I always understood it that the being the registered keeper was not proof of ownership, as these are different things, yet bailiffs and the like use the dvla to confirm ownership.

I find this somewhat confusing.

It may be that i will be going bankrupt in the future and wonder what i should do?

should i get my partner to get a stat declaration?

As a note, after taking advice i havent transferred the vehicle to her or anyone else, as i didnt want any future receiver to think i was being fraudulent.

 

I should add for clarity, my partner is and always has been the policy holder on the insurance, although i would pay for it when i was working.

 

sorry for long windedness (ness).

 

many thanks

Edited June 15, 2011 by innertemple
addition

[rebel11]

Hi inner

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will be happy to advise as soon as they are available.

[afcwben]

The DVLA can only confirm who the registered keeper of the vehicle is. Being a registered keeper is not proof of ownership

[innertemple]

Hi,

thanks, thats what i thought, but has anyone any idea what an official receiver would say in respect of it?. Its a ford tourneo, 7 seater. I have 3 children and 2 large dogs and live in a village. My partner needs it to get to work and i will need it potentially if i can find work and organise my license, which my family are helping me with. It is a P reg and probably worth around a £1000 now, it has a dented bonnet and a fair bit of rust but keeps on going, so far.

Would i need to get my partner to obtain a statutory declaration or if i dont, will the receiver 'presume' its mine, or ours?, as the way i understand it, a bailiff would contact dvla and upon seeing i was the registered keeper, would be happy to levy upon it.

 

many thanks

[patdavies]

1. An RK is usually presumed to be the owner unless the contrary is proven.

2. If it was registered and insured in your name and you were not the main driver, then you were probably guilty of 'fronting'.

[innertemple]

Hi,

It was registered in my name, i was the only earner at the time and it made sense as id be paying for the tax/insurance etc.

The insurance policy is held under the owners name, the person who's always been the only driver of it.

So where do i stand?, i was going to just transfer it a long time ago, but hesitated as i didnt want it to appear as though i was attempting to 'hide' it, which im not, as it isnt owned by me.

So do i need the owner to get a stat declaration? or as im not the owner do i not refer to it at all?

I looked at the forms for bankruptcy and it asks me about assets as such, but i dont consider it an asset as its not owned by me, but i presume they may do a dvla search which would say i was the registered keeper of a vehicle. Im still confused.

I was not going to put it in assets, as i dont own it, but it is something i would mention in advance of a receiver then 'finding it' and challenging that i was being fraudulent, which isnt the case. Surely in law , its for them to 'prove' i own it. I havent a driving license and im sure they cant beleive its been sitting in my drive for 7 years?.

 

P.S. re: 1. - presumed by whom? and under what authority?, i took the v5 to be the keepers note as it says on it.

 

and re: 2. - as i said, on the insurance the main driver is named as the owner and is also the policy holder, i was named as an additional driver, in the event i was able to pass my test, which never happened as id had motorcycles in the past.

So just to confirm, there was no 'fronting' going on. Beleive it or not my partner and i have always been extremely honest, to our detriment it seems, in this day and age. Even my ex boss was totally dishonest, and he was a solicitor, who ended up going insolvent, which i what has stitched me up, sending me the same way after being made redundant, twice in 3 yrs as a result of his tax evasion.

Edited June 18, 2011 by innertemple

[spanner5511]

Some advice that I have just had from a solicitor.

 

His view is that being a keeper of a vehicle is not proof of ownership.

 

Do you have an original bill of sale? - Whose name is on it?

 

If you have insurance evidence that your partner declared herself as the owner and the main user of the vehicle, this would support a claim of ownership.

 

DVLA stated to me, in writing, that they cannot get involved with issues of ownership. A registered keeper is only responsible for the conduct and actions pertaining to use of the vehicle, they may or may not be the owner.

[innertemple]

Id have to try and find the bill of sale, dont remember it being made out to me or my partner to be honest, as it was a private cash sale over 7 years ago.

I dont have a drivers licence but i have almost always been put down as the registered keeper on my partners cars, more for convenience than anything else. I was the earner and would osrt out all the bills etc.

The insurance policy is in my partners name, she is the named driver. Dont beleive it said anything about whether she was the owner, but if it did she would have said she was.

So, do i say anything about it to a receiver?, or do i mention it and explain? as i dont know whether they will try and act aggressively in respevy of trying to seize it or something. We need it in any event, i live in a village, 3 kids and two dogs and my partner needs it to get to work in another village where public transport isnt available within her hours.

Also, its only worth approx £1000 ata guess. Its a 97 transit tourneo, not great condition.

 

many thanks

[innertemple]

She hasnt been able to find the bill of sale. It ws bought for cash her grandad gave her for it, as her last van had failed its mot, structurally unsound.

She has always been the insurance holder and always named as main driver for the reason she owns the car drives and i dont even have a license. like i said, i had a motorbike before and never took my test, although its something ive been trying to do, but cannot afford to due to redundancy and debt.

[spanner5511]

If they take the view that it's joint ownership, your share will be £500, and from what I understand the receiver is not really interested in vehicles worth less than £1500, as a forced sale less auction fees will probably return a paltry amount. I wish you, your partner and your kids the best of luck for the future. I think you have little to worry about regarding your old van.

[innertemple]

Hi,

thanks, thats what i was thinking. But in anyones view, should i mention it to the receiver? or put it in the list of assests?, im not sure whats best, just rather be honest about it.

 

many thanks

[mightymouse_69]

Off topic - Inner Temple: is your username any reference to the honourable society?

[innertemple]

Hi,

In a way, but mostly it is as a result of the time ive spent in martial arts and philosophy, although i did happen to work a lot within the temple, in the city and understand the name is also related to the society you speak of.

P.S. like ur avatar

[mightymouse_69]

Hi,

In a way, but mostly it is as a result of the time ive spent in martial arts and philosophy, although i did happen to work a lot within the temple, in the city and understand the name is also related to the society you speak of.

P.S. like ur avatar

 

Fantastic - it is quite a place and it is beautiful inside the buildings which make up the Inner Temple.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[innertemple]

If they take the view that it's joint ownership, your share will be £500, and from what I understand the receiver is not really interested in vehicles worth less than £1500, as a forced sale less auction fees will probably return a paltry amount. I wish you, your partner and your kids the best of luck for the future. I think you have little to worry about regarding your old van.

 

Hi,

thanks, thats what i was thinking. But in anyones view, should i mention it to the receiver? or put it in the list of assests?, im not sure whats best, just rather be honest about it.

 

many thanks