#parking fine despite having purhcased a #parking ticket!

[mat02920]

Hi there,

 

Went to a local pub today with work colleagues for lunch, bought a parking ticket with a time of 13.12hrs but the ticket fell off into the footwell - not a sticky one or anything.

 

When I get back to the car after 30 minutes I've received notifictaion of a parking fine which was printed at 13.15hrs. So in 3 minutes a parking attendant has dished out the fine already - not even enough time to get into the pub to get change for the machine if that were the case!!

 

Where do I stand legally on this as I have evidence in the form of a ticket I bought prior to the alleged offense?

 

Any advice would be much appreciated and hints towards templates also - been a while since I've been on CAG.

 

Many thanks

 

M

[sailor sam]

First question; Is it a council issued ticket or one from a private company? If the latter, you can relax and ignore it as it is not a fine or penalty so it is non-enforceable.

[mat02920]

Its a private company... I appreciate your help and I'm sure there is much information in the CAG forums but I would like to read up on the 'Law' surrounding the matter, so any pointers would be great.

 

It's my partners car and it's registered to her parents address and I know she'll crumble under any sort of pressure from these companies - domestically it will all be my fault and she'll want it sorted rather than have years of letters escalating in price.

 

Can I write a letter to their 'appeals' email address stating the circumstances and providing the evidence of the purchased ticket? Then, when they decline, at least I know my rights and how best to proceed....

 

Also for your info... it's a 'parking charge' not a fine.

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

ignore totally

 

its a speculative invoice not a legal parking fine

 

do some reading in this forum

 

dx

siteteam

[sailor sam]

Its a private company... I appreciate your help and I'm sure there is much information in the CAG forums but I would like to read up on the 'Law' surrounding the matter, so any pointers would be great.

 

It's my partners car and it's registered to her parents address and I know she'll crumble under any sort of pressure from these companies - domestically it will all be my fault and she'll want it sorted rather than have years of letters escalating in price.

Can I write a letter to their 'appeals' email address stating the circumstances and providing the evidence of the purchased ticket? Then, when they decline, at least I know my rights and how best to proceed....

 

Also for your info... it's a 'parking charge' not a fine.

 

Thanks

 

You will find that this comes under contractual law which means that it is the driver (not the RK) who enters into the 'contract' by parking there. Yes, they will no doubt identify the RK by obtaining the info from the DVLA, but they cannot issue an invoice against anyone else other than the driver. The RK has no legal obligation what so ever to furnish a PPC with any information and without the driver's details, they have no case. There will be a paper trail of 'threat-o-grams' followed by a couple of solicitor or debt collector letters but they can be safely ignored.

 

Even if they were to take court action, they can only recover 'losses' or damages incurred by you parking there which would need to be proportinate to the charges. By issuing a 'parking charge notice' after you had purchased a ticket would suggest in fact that the notice is a penalty or fine which is something a private company cannot issue and thus it would get thrown out in court. On that basis, you could (although i'm not advising you to do so) write to these sharks enclosing a copy of the ticket you purchases indicating that as far as you are concerned, you paid the required parking charge but regret that the ticket appears to have fallen off the dash board. However, you consider the matter closed and nothing more is legally due to them as the 'parking charge notice' would be considered to be a penalty or fine and as such is un-recoverable in English law.

[mat02920]

That's great thanks for your help. I think I will ignore them and when they send an 'invoice' to my partners address I'll get her to write back stating that she was not driving and as you say, has no obligation to inform them who was.

 

In the even they keep pestering with letters and the like, at what point can you report them for harassment?

[dx100uk]

pers i'd not write anything

just gives them another target.

 

dx

[crem]

That's great thanks for your help. I think I will ignore them and when they send an 'invoice' to my partners address I'll get her to write back stating that she was not driving and as you say, has no obligation to inform them who was.

 

In the even they keep pestering with letters and the like, at what point can you report them for harassment?

 

No, don't let her write anything at all to them. Give them nothing to work with whatsoever

[Britainsworstdriver]

DO NOT enter into any dialogue whatsoever. There is no loss and thus no TORT and thus no case to answer. Under no circumstances whatsoever should you or your partner respond in any way at all.

[nero12]

Sorry for butting in this thread and at the risk of annoying everyone I now firmly believe that doing nothing is more stressful for the recipient than actually writing in. You are already a target .

 

The problem being is that these companies are now aware of these forums.

 

In this case I would write in and state the case that there was not any infringement of any infered contract. That they should respond stating fully why they think the registered keeper is liable, what legislation they are relying upon, and that evidence can be produced at a court or to the land owner on request that payment was indeed made in return for use of the facilities.

 

This added with what is already known about the legal standing of these invoices -I cant see how they can claim any damages further than attempting to claim legal standing

 

Any further corrspondance sent by them can then be countered with a claim of harrasement and intentional distress, aimed at both the PPC and landowner

Edited April 24, 2011 by nero12

[dx100uk]

sorry

you need to read about the recent court case

the judge only entertained it BECAUSE the OP made contact with them in the first place

 

dx

[sailor sam]

sorry

you need to read about the recent court case

the judge only entertained it BECAUSE the OP made contact with them in the first place

 

dx

 

They still need to prove who was entering the 'contract' (the driver) which may not necessarily be the RK of the vehicle. Without that information (which the RK is not obliged to give them), a civil case has no where to go.

[nero12]

sorry

you need to read about the recent court case

the judge only entertained it BECAUSE the OP made contact with them in the first place

 

dx

Not aware of this one, can you point me in the right direction please so I can see the particulars of the case.

[dx100uk]

yep SS thats what i mean

they got as far as court and the judge threw it out ...

 

dx

[dx100uk]

Not aware of this one, can you point me in the right direction please so I can see the particulars of the case

 

its one of the recent cases on here

 

bit busy to look

 

dx

[nero12]

its one of the recent cases on here

 

bit busy to look

 

dx

 

OK can you forward when you have time please.

[dx100uk]

or look in this or the legal forum

 

dx

[nero12]

or look in this or the legal forum

 

dx

 

With respect I wouldnt know where to start looking. any clues -- thread heading ???

[dx100uk]

needle in a haystack

 

its a thread here or in legal sure its around.

 

the OP's case was made 200 times worse by the fact they had replied several times to the PPC.

 

a couple of the regulars concluded that was the reason from the claimants POC

 

someone will know it.

 

but it wasn't that long ago and it was a very large thread.

 

dx

[Coupon]

That's great thanks for your help. I think I will ignore them and when they send an 'invoice' to my partners address I'll get her to write back stating that she was not driving and as you say, has no obligation to inform them who was.

 

In the even they keep pestering with letters and the like, at what point can you report them for harassment?

 

 

 

I can't find a recent Court case either but neither nero12 nor the OP needs it IMHO. Most useful is the Hetherington Jakeman case maybe:

 

http://www.chad.co.uk/news/local/judge_says_excel_parking_fines_illegal_1_701811

 

To mat02920, you will not find 'the law about private parking companies' as it's an unregulated 'industry'(pah!!) who just rely 20% on contract law and 80% on the typical British psyche to believe a ticket if it 'looks legit' and to mistake powerless debt collectors for bailiffs. They know that their threats still cause the majority of mugs to pay up; do not be a victim and don't let your gf's family fall victim to this 'situation' either!

 

Do not get her to write back - IMHO it's almost always a mistake to entertain them (would you reply to a phishing emailer saying 'go away', thus confirming they had hit upon a live email addy? This is a very similar 'situation' or another word starting with S I cannot use on here!). People who write always just get a reply saying 'appeal refused' and the 'scary letters' still go to the same address either way.

 

The letters are nothing to be scared of - debt collectors have no powers, are not bailiffs and only the driver could possibly have entered into any contract (not that I am saying you did - certainly don't think about paying!). See this similar C.A.G. thread; click on the links I gave the poster plus the Watchdog video (watch it!!):

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ld-I-be-scared

 

After showing your gf and all the family the Watchdog link, then take a look at the Google links I gave that poster on that link. All you have to do is change the PPC name to the name of the firm you are being hounded by and you will have tons of info specific to people who have been in your shoes. Also then Google the words 'PPC letters, what to expect' - the top result makes a VERY useful reference for you though once the letters start arriving and I make no apologies for pointing you towards that resource even though it isn't on C.A.G. (yet).

 

Do not contact the PPC nor the debt collector, do not get scared, do not give them any info at all over the coming months of rubbish letters. And reporting them for harassment - do so as soon as you feel harassed is the answer (best to collect a few threatograms first). Harassment link:

 

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=03_harassment

 

HTH. I can't believe that gf and her family will still worry about this after watching Watchdog and seeing those Google results of other people's experiences and the letter-chains.