TBI 14 year old HFC debt ?

[JayBirdUK]

Hi there

 

About 2 weeks ago I received a phone call from a company called TBI financial services ltd. regarding a debt they believed I was labial for. They said it was a HFC loan taken out in 1997 which they took over in 2002 and require payment as there is apparently a CCJ against this.

 

I honestly have no recollection of this so called debt so, hand on heart, could not actually say if it is real.

 

The "gentleman" on the phone was very insistent I acknowledge this debt and arrange payment. I politely told him I had no idea what he was talking about, believed he possibly had the wrong person, and regardless .... was certainly not getting into any sort of financial/personal details discussion with a total stranger over the phone. As he continued I hung up.

 

I then get a letter today referring to their "previous letter" and demanding immediate contact to arrange payment or legal action will be taken.

 

This means that over the last two weeks I have received ...

 

1) A phone call from someone from TBI saying I owe them money relating to a debt in 1997.

2) A letter demanding immediate payment.

 

I have not received any written details/conformation of this original debt such as original loan agreement, reason why they think it is me, or even an idea as to amount involved. All the letter contained was the demand, threat of legal action and an "account reference number".

 

My first reaction was "[problem]" but having done a bit of surfing today it seems they are a valid company. So my question is .... what is my next move ?

 

1) Ignore them ?

 

2) Respond to the letter requesting details of this so called debt/ccj and why they think it is me ? Especially as if they have had this debt for approx 9 years and I have been at this address for 10 years it seems a little confusing why they have left it so long.

 

3) Other ?

 

Thanks in advance

 

J.

[cerberusalert]

Even if there was a CCJ if it is more than six years old they would have to apply to a court for permission to enforce it, this is rarely if ever given.

[cerberusalert]

Send them this; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?428-General-debt-letter-if-you-know-nothing-of-the-debt

 

The onus is on them to prove a debt exists and they have a legal right to pursue.

[dx100uk]

TBI are well known for this on old HFC debts.

 

rumour has it

that when HFC had to quickly cover their tracks when the compulsory PPI scandle was developing [before they got fined +£1.8!]

 

they enployed a compamy to shread litterally eveything that could be gotten hold of

including some agreements that were with 6yrs of their expiry date.

 

this co actually never did shread them all but hid them away to use later...

 

then came this company called TBI...

i'll say no more ...

 

this TBI lot only targetted old HFC loans

but knew every fine point detail about the person they were after.

 

they disappeared after some authorities got close

 

and have recently been chancing their arm again to see of they can find any mugs to spoof.

 

i think you now get the drift.

 

interesting though they are actually using the phones now.

 

might be time for a word in the ear of the OFT>

 

dx

[JayBirdUK]

Thanks for the quick response.

 

As I said I honestly could not say this is not my debt. I certainly have no recollection of a HFC loan or the like but it was 14 years ago and it could have slipped the memory which I also admit is not my strongest feature, although I would like to think I would remember something important like that. All I can say is I have not made any payments towards any such debt in at least the last 11 years.

 

So even though I cannot swear 100% it is not my debt it still best to just go back with that "Prove it or go away" letter ?

 

I must admit I did not know CCJ's had to be "reapplied for" and thought the 6 year "write off" rule was for non CCJ debts ?

 

J

[cerberusalert]

So even though I cannot swear 100% it is not my debt it still best to just go back with that "Prove it or go away" letter ?

They may well be just fishing by contacting people with the same or similar name. Hopefully it's not your debt and they will send you details of someone else's in which case they will breach the Data Protection Act and be liable to a fine.

I must admit I did not know CCJ's had to be "reapplied for" and thought the 6 year "write off" rule was for non CCJ debts ?

A court assumes that a CCJ will be enforced within six years & it would need a very good reason to give permission to allow enforcement after that period. The CCJ is not written off it's just deemed as unenforceable, however it is expunged from your credit file and http://www.trustonline.org.uk/

[JayBirdUK]

Thank you for the clarification. I will insert the appropriate bits into that letter and send of tonight.

 

I will keep you posted on what response (if any) I get back them

 

Thanks again

 

J

[dx100uk]

curreent address of the spoofers would be nice too.

 

dx

[JayBirdUK]

curreent address of the fleecers would be nice too.

 

dx

 

 

The Address on the letter I received is ....

 

TBI Financial Services Ltd

1st Floor

The Robert Cort Building

Elgar Road South

Reading

RG2 0DL

 

Tel - (0118) 931 3800

Fax - (0118) 931 3666

 

That is also their registered office and their registration number is 2916402

 

Well letter posted so I will see what happens now .... Watch this space as they say

 

J

[cerberusalert]

Company Name: T.B.I. FINANCIAL SERVICES LTD.

 

 

 

 

Previous Name(s): NO PREVIOUS NAME HAS BEEN RECORDED DURING THE LAST 20 YEARS

 

Registered Number: 02916402

 

Registered Office: 1ST FLOOR

THE ROBERT CORT BUILDING

ELGAR ROAD SOUTH

READING

RG2 0DL

 

Incorporation Date: 07/04/1994

 

Country Of Origin: United Kingdom

Company Type: Private Limited Company

 

Accounting Reference Date: 30/04

Last Accounts Made Up To: 30/04/2010

Next Accounts Due: 31/01/2012

 

Last Annual Return: 24/03/2010

Next Annual Return Due: 21/04/2011

 

Company Status: Active

Type of Accounts: FULL Accounts

 

Nature Of Business: 6523 - Other financial intermediation

 

 

Filing History

 

 

09/08/2010 FULL ACCOUNTS MADE UP TO 30/04/10

25/03/2010 24/03/10 FULL LIST

25/03/10 STATEMENT OF CAPITAL;GBP 30

25/03/2010 DIRECTOR'S CHANGE OF PARTICULARS / DAVID FRANK DONALDSON JONES / 25/03/2010

25/03/2010 DIRECTOR'S CHANGE OF PARTICULARS / KEVIN HUGH EDGAR / 25/03/2010

10/08/2009 FULL ACCOUNTS MADE UP TO 30/04/09

27/03/2009 RETURN MADE UP TO 24/03/09; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS

25/09/2008 FULL ACCOUNTS MADE UP TO 30/04/08

04/04/2008 RETURN MADE UP TO 24/03/08; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS

21/08/2007 FULL ACCOUNTS MADE UP TO 30/04/07

27/03/2007 RETURN MADE UP TO 24/03/07; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS

05/01/2007 DECLARATION OF SATISFACTION OF MORTGAGE/CHARGE

20/11/2006 FULL ACCOUNTS MADE UP TO 30/04/06

19/09/2006 SECRETARY'S PARTICULARS CHANGED;DIRECTOR'S PARTICULARS CHANGED

27/03/2006 RETURN MADE UP TO 24/03/06; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS

24/03/2006 DIRECTOR'S PARTICULARS CHANGED

21/07/2005 FULL ACCOUNTS MADE UP TO 30/04/05

30/03/2005 RETURN MADE UP TO 24/03/05; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS

08/07/2004 FULL ACCOUNTS MADE UP TO 30/04/04

30/03/2004 RETURN MADE UP TO 24/03/04; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS

18/07/2003 FULL ACCOUNTS MADE UP TO 30/04/03

28/03/2003 RETURN MADE UP TO 24/03/03; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS

12/08/2002 FULL ACCOUNTS MADE UP TO 30/04/02

11/06/2002 AUDITOR'S RESIGNATION

02/04/2002 RETURN MADE UP TO 24/03/02; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS

DIRECTOR'S PARTICULARS CHANGED

06/11/2001 FULL ACCOUNTS MADE UP TO 30/04/01

05/04/2001 RETURN MADE UP TO 24/03/01; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS

16/11/2000 DIRECTOR RESIGNED

10/08/2000 ACCOUNTS FOR 'SMALL' CO. MADE UP TO 30/04/00

13/04/2000 RETURN MADE UP TO 24/03/00; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS

SECRETARY'S PARTICULARS CHANGED;DIRECTOR'S PARTICULARS CHANGED

19/08/1999 ACCOUNTS FOR 'SMALL' CO. MADE UP TO 30/04/99

23/06/1999 DIRECTOR RESIGNED

21/05/1999 NEW DIRECTOR APPOINTED

21/04/1999 P.O.S 30 £1 SH 06/04/99

21/04/1999 £ IC 60/30

06/04/99

£ SR 30@1=30

01/04/1999 RETURN MADE UP TO 24/03/99; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS

31/03/1999 DIRECTOR RESIGNED

31/03/1999 NEW DIRECTOR APPOINTED

09/09/1998 NEW DIRECTOR APPOINTED

31/07/1998 ACCOUNTS FOR 'SMALL' CO. MADE UP TO 30/04/98

14/04/1998 RETURN MADE UP TO 07/04/98; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS

DIRECTOR'S PARTICULARS CHANGED

28/08/1997 ACCOUNTS FOR 'SMALL' CO. MADE UP TO 30/04/97

27/05/1997 RETURN MADE UP TO 07/04/97; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS

DIRECTOR'S PARTICULARS CHANGED

09/01/1997 PARTICULARS OF MORTGAGE/CHARGE

21/11/1996 ACCOUNTS FOR 'SMALL' CO. MADE UP TO 30/04/96

31/03/1996 RETURN MADE UP TO 07/04/96; NO CHANGE OF MEMBERS

15/03/1996 DECLARATION OF SATISFACTION OF MORTGAGE/CHARGE

11/08/1995 ACCOUNTS FOR 'SMALL' CO. MADE UP TO 30/04/95

27/04/1995 RETURN MADE UP TO 07/04/95; FULL LIST OF MEMBERS

21/12/1994 NEW DIRECTOR APPOINTED

25/05/1994 REGISTERED OFFICE CHANGED ON 25/05/94 FROM:

G OFFICE CHANGED 25/05/94

10 MALDON CLOSE

WESTCOTE ROAD

READING

BERKS RG3 2DH

12/05/1994 PARTICULARS OF MORTGAGE/CHARGE

11/05/1994 PARTICULARS OF MORTGAGE/CHARGE

15/04/1994 SECRETARY RESIGNED

07/04/1994 INCORPORATION DOCUMENTS

CERTIFICATE OF INCORPORATION

STATEMENT OF DIRECTORS & REGISTERED OFFICE

DECLARATION OF COMPLIANCE

MEMORANDUM OF ASSOCIATION

ARTICLES OF ASSOCIATION

 

 

Mortgages

 

No. Mortgage Charges: 3

Mortgage Charges Outstanding: 1

Mortgage Charges Part Satisfied: 0

Mortgage Charges Satisfied: 2

 

 

Charge No: 3

Creation Date: 03/01/1997

Registered: 09/01/1997

Satisfied: Outstanding

Description: DEBENTURE

Person(s) Entitled To Charge: THE GOVERNOR AND COMPANY OF THE BANK OF SCOTLAND

[JayBirdUK]

Hi folks

 

I know it has been a while but thought I would let you know how it all went

 

After a few letters back and forward ... Me asking for details .. Them demanding payment .... I was finally sent a photocopy of a CCJ. It was indeed for my address in 2002, correct surname but wrong (although similar) first name. I had still at this point received no other documentation regarding this debt as in original agreements, etc.

 

All along I had been repeatedly pointing out that ...

 

1) I refuted the loan and therefore considered this in dispute

 

2) I had been at my current address just over a year when this CCJ was issued and visibly so EG Bank account, utility bills, electoral register, mobile phone contract, etc etc so why had it not been sent to this address and why had it taken them so long to "find" and contact me

 

3) I wished to see some confirmation of the original debt and agreements

 

My last letter to them in May was as follows .....

 

T.B.I Financial Services

18th May 2011

 

Your Ref:- xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Re: Agreement Number – xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

I write in response to your letter dated 11th May 2011 that included the copy of the CCJ. It did go some way to covering some of the queries I have raised however; I wish to state I still have several concerns regarding this on-going situation and would ask you review them and assist in answering them where possible.

 

Firstly I have still seen no documentation of the original debt you believe relates to me and again I state I have no recollection of such. I understand you say you are not required to provide this given the CCJ but, as this CCJ is almost 9 years old, was never initially received (and therefore not queried or defended against) in 2002, and is in the wrong name (which is different to the name you are currently using to contact me), I hope you can understand my continued request to see something that can at least shed some light on where this all started, what the original debt relates to and why you believe it relates to me.

 

Regarding the CCJ I would also ask why it was not served to this address if it was intended for me as I have been living here since September 2001, so had been here almost a year prior to this action being taken in July 2002.

 

I would also ask again why it has taken so long for this to occur. I have been at this address for almost 10 years and have certainly been visible as such. I am down as this name for paying the council rent on the property, council tax and utilities. I am also on the electoral register here and all previous claims for benefit payments are for this name, address and NI number. There are also many other financial details related to this name and address over the years such as bank account, mobile phone contract, etc, so any attempts to “find me” would have given the same result in 2002 as they do today.

 

Even if you put aside the address used for contact made in 2002 there is still the matter of a solicitor letter your representative stated in the initial phone conversation that was sent to me in 2007 regarding this. Again it was never received but again causes me to query the timescales involved with this matter. If you believed this debt related to me and had this address listed for me to send the 2007 letter … why has there been four years between that contact and now ? I would have thought it would have made more sense to have initiated this level of correspondence back then ?

 

Finally you state in your letter that I have denied being a customer of yours and I stand by this denial. I have never received any prior notification from yourselves regarding any debt (with you directly or as a result of your purchasing a debt from another company) before your first letter of 29th March 2011 and can only assume you sent correspondence relating to your purchase of the debt to the same address as the CCJ. Perhaps if you could send a copy of all correspondence you have sent to me over the years to this address stated on this letter ? I can at least then have a better idea as to the history of this situation and it may aid in answering the number of concerns I have over all of this.

 

Like yourselves I am hoping to find an amicable solution to this matter but I am afraid that I do still consider this to be in dispute and would request that you give my above points your utmost attention in order that a resolution can be found.

 

Yours Sincerely

"Me"

 

 

As you can see that was almost 5 months ago and to this day I have heard nothing back from them. No letters, no phone calls, no nothing.

I am assuming it is now fairly safe to say they have "given up" on this ? Even if they do resurface at some point in the future they will still be faced with the same queries from me and, I suspect, it would be even harder a second time around to get this CCJ reactivated ?

Anyway I just thought I would post an update/conclusion to this ... A thank you for the help you gave .. and a ray of hope for others ... stick to your guns and do not let them intimidate you ... You can win

J

 

[dx100uk]

ccj has run out anyway

so you called their bluff

 

end off

 

dx

[LostAtSea]

In light of what dx posted in #4 there would be no deed of assignment. If these clowns are trying to pursue an alleged debt that they don't own or have equitable rights too then surely this is fraud ?

[JayBirdUK]

Seems I spoke to soon lol

 

A letter has arrived today from TBI's "In House Solicitor" in response to my last correspondence to them on 18th May this year.

 

Basically it states that they are legally entitled to peruse the debt and enclosed a copy of the Deed of Assignment back in December 2001.

 

There is then a fair amount of "waffle" about me moving and not telling HFC about it and how they have tried to "track me down". They now state that this was impossible because I have not been on the voters roll at my current address for the last ten years. They also included copies of two alleged letters sent to my current address in 2007 which I am "accused" of ignoring. The reason being I did not get them.

 

Now given I am on the electrol roll/voters roll here and have happily voted in all national and general elections since 2001 I find it hard to believe they say I am not registered. It is also strange that the land line phone number they made initial contact on in April this year is exactly the same one as 2007 when they were apparently trying to track me down yet it was never used in 2007.

 

To sum up there is still nothing to indicate what this debt was originally for and I still have absolutely no recollection of it.

 

So I am most certainly not going to be contacting them in the next 21 days to arrange payment as demanded but would like some ideas on a suitable response. I am contacting my local council on Monday to get confirmation (preferably written) that I have been registered for the last 10 odd years so, as it will be a few days before I write back, I have time to word a suitable reply.

 

Do I mention RSC Order 46 (r 2) yet given the original CCJ was in 2002 ... or do I hold that one back and continue with the "I have no idea what you are talking about and please provide some detail of original debt other than a total amount" ?

 

To be honest this has now ceased to be amusing and I suspect I still have a fight on my hands .... so what would you good folk suggest I send in my reply ?

 

Thanks in advance

[dx100uk]

IGNORE!!!

 

dx

[JayBirdUK]

But I want to play with them

 

Out of curiosity .... "If" they did go to court to get the CCJ reinstated or whatever the terminology is ... would the court notify me of such ? I do not want them to sneak this behind my back and another notification letter from them "get lost"

[dx100uk]

i like your style.

 

let s play........

 

 

first your question

 

they COULD be very sneaky and serve the papers to an old address

now the brig would be the man here i think

 

but, i dont think they can get a ccj reopened without you being there.

 

now to play...

i dont think w can get them into trouble

they are doing nothign wrong by asking you to pay

however if they are demanding you pay because there is a ccj there, and you must

then it could get interesting for them.

they know it too.

 

ask for a copy of the agreement

 

there will be ppi ibet

 

if there is

it will go to your pocket

 

dx

[JayBirdUK]

To be honest I had not even thought about PPI .. for no other reason that I honestly have no idea what this debt relates to. So to bring in the PPI would that not mean I am admitting to this debt ? A debt I have no recolletion of ? I have still seen absolutely nothing relating to this debt apart from a copy of the Deed of assignment and a copy of the CCJ.

 

Yes they have my correct address for the time of the debt (1998) but I had moved by the time of the CCJ (2002). However I have been at my current address for a good few years and was here when they supposedly tried to contact me in 2007. So given they have acknowledged my current address in 2007 and also in recent correspondence, I would hope that if they used the "wrong" address they would be up the smelly river without a paddle. However .... there have been a few letters that they claim to have sent but have never arrived, and this is my concern. If they are the ones to advise of a court hearing then I suspect that may join the missing letters. I would feel better if I knew I would receive notification of their claim from the court involved.

 

I am basically torn with going back to them with the same as all my previous letters .. the "no idea what you are talking about please show some idea what this debt actually is" ... or do I go straight for the "ok then .. lets go to court to get this reinstated if you want" .... part of me wants to make them jump through hoops and part of me wants to get this over with via them having to apply to get this CCJ reinstated.

Edited November 5, 2011 by JayBirdUK
Got it wrong on address for CCJ (2002)

[dx100uk]

ok fair concerns.........

 

IMHO the situation is this...

 

by corresponding with them, you have created something of a 'string dangler' to them.

 

its been mentioned before, its a phishing trip, they sent a letter out to catch a mug, they got a response, so upped the anti, to try and spoof you into paying.

 

i pers would not ever reply again.

 

even IF they get the CCJ active AND you do not 'get' the info, you can still get it set aside - even if if goes to court AND they get jusgement by default.

 

so, there is your 'safety net'

 

the comment regarding 'we have already written to you' is a common ploy, which spoofers use,

 

as said, i would not do anything.

 

now, one last thing, - have you checked your CRA file?

 

dx

[JayBirdUK]

I have not checked CRA ((DOH !!)) but will get on to that one ... I am sure I have a spam "try free for 30 days" mail around somewhere from at least one of them lol

 

I will have a think about my next move while I wait for the Council to get back to me with "proof" of me being on voters roll ... I do want to "play" with them but I also take your point about doing so will just keep them keen.

 

Thanks for the input and I will keep folks posted

 

J

[dx100uk]

[JayBirdUK]

Well the local council were quick lol .... I have received written notification I am indeed on the Electrol/Voters register for this address and was back in 2007 and before. So them saying they could not track me down because of this is a total fabrication.

 

So .... before I do write back can I be a pain and just clarify this whole getting the 9 year old CCJ "reinstated" issue please ?

 

1) Am I right in thinking they do actually have to do this given it is over 6 years old ?

 

2) If they do would the court they apply to notify me of this ?

 

3) As I have no recollection of this debt do I have any legal right to demand a copy of the original credit agreement from them given they do have this CCJ (all be it in the wrong but similar name)) ?

 

Thanks in advance

 

J

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

i like your style.

 

let s play........

 

 

first your question

 

they COULD be very sneaky and serve the papers to an old address

now the brig would be the man here i think

 

but, i dont think they can get a ccj reopened without you being there.

 

now to play...

i dont think w can get them into trouble

they are doing nothign wrong by asking you to pay

however if they are demanding you pay because there is a ccj there, and you must

then it could get interesting for them.

they know it too.

 

ask for a copy of the agreement

 

there will be ppi ibet

 

if there is

it will go to your pocket

 

dx

 

Hi, I know of a couple os similar events recently did not deal

with them directly in one TBI tried for and order to restart the claim

HCJ threw it out after reading the papers BEFORE the hearing,

they dropped the second one.

Any attempt at this stage to serve papers deliberately to an old

address would be an abuse of process and undoubtedly there

could be criminal charges including but not limited to deception

in order to gain a monetary advantage to us the old term.

This must be reported to the OFT and if solicitors are involved

to SRA and the abuse of process to the MOJ.

[Seminole]

I think the advice you have been given to ignore them is correct. Technically they could go back to court to seek to enforce the judgement but they would have to explan why they (or the original creditor) haven't enforced for 9 years. It's not very likely that they would do that but by responding to them you are keeping this matter in their possible recovery file. If you really must write them another letter, simply set out the facts as you see them and make them fully aware that a) you know your rights and b) that you'll defend the matter vigorously if they seek to take it back to the court.I don't know if your local authority will confirm your presence on the electoral register for 10 years but your local main library should have copies of the register going back that far.