Triton - Natwest Overdraft

[PriorityOne]

Hi Kayyak....

 

Thanks for the PM, but I'm posting this on your thread so that it stays open to comment. The extract below is a letter I drafted for a friend and which can be adapted to suit your circumstances reasonably easily, if you need to.....

 

Much of the letter has been removed because it involved an account where a DCA had been collecting for several years..... but it still reads ok. Once you're happy, send by rec. delivery.... and send a copy to the solicitors as well.

 

You are right not to mention part v exemption. Leave them to raise it (or not).

 

Hope it helps....

 

Thank you for your response to my legal request to xxxxxxxx xxxx under the Consumer Credit Act (1974); relating to your reference number xxxxxxxxx

 

Firstly, I have noted your comment that “the bank does not require customers to sign an agreement under the Consumer Credit Act in order for an overdraft facility to be applied to their account” but am somewhat bemused by that comment. I therefore require written confirmation under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008 stating clearly which type of account you have been collecting upon for the past xx years.

 

Secondly, if you maintain that this was indeed an overdraft facility on a current account or otherwise, I must advise you that overdrafts are regulated by The Consumer Credit Act 1974; ss 10 and 74. I also refer you to Coutts & Co v Sebestyen [2005] EWCA Civ 473 (28 April 2005)

 

This means that you are obliged to send me a copy of the letter of facility that you would have sent out for an overdraft when that overdraft commenced and every other time that overdraft was amended; ie, increased, decreased or reduced, including a copy of the exact terms and conditions that were applicable at the time(s). I also require confirmation that any copies sent to me, including terms and conditions, will be precise copies and the exact date upon which they were originally issued, under CPUTR (2008).

 

Thirdly, I require a full breakdown of all charges and interest applied to the account, including details of each charging period, for the entire duration of the account, up until present day and prior to its transfer to xxxxxxxxxxxxx.

 

Please note, that I am now formally disputing this account on the grounds of unlawful charges and interest applied; overdraft facility or otherwise, for its entire duration and until such times as a true outstanding balance can still be established after all these years, then no further payments will be forthcoming.

 

Please also be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute and the lack of a credit agreement /contractual arrangement is a very clear dispute.

 

I await your considered response.

 

Yours faithfully,

[Abby25]

Stonker of a letter ... !!

[PriorityOne]

Stonker of a letter ... !!

 

Hopefully!! My friend is in a similar situation.... and just isn't strong enough to fight anymore....

[Kayyak]

Thanks PriorityOne, I may use some of that in the future, but I haven't sent the first CCA request letter yet! I'm planning to send it tomorrow together with a SAR.

 

Sending the normal templated CCA request, hope that's ok? I wasn't sure whether to ask for the o/d facility letter but I then thought I should leave it for them to decide and go from there.

[PriorityOne]

Thanks PriorityOne, I may use some of that in the future, but I haven't sent the first CCA request letter yet! I'm planning to send it tomorrow together with a SAR.

 

Sending the normal templated CCA request, hope that's ok? I wasn't sure whether to ask for the o/d facility letter but I then thought I should leave it for them to decide and go from there.

 

CCA request is fine. Green & co. are in-house to Triton but it's still a good idea to copy Green & co. into any request you make, especially if Triton try and wriggle out of things by saying it's an overdraft, etc. and don't tell them there's a problem. Triton can't do anything because they don't own the account but Green & co. may take instructions from your original creditor regardless.

 

Best to play safe...

[Kayyak]

It's been passed on since, Shoosmiths solicitors have been instructed now. Just compiled a letter to them stating account in dispute.

[PriorityOne]

It's been passed on since, Shoosmiths solicitors have been instructed now. Just compiled a letter to them stating account in dispute.

 

In that case, they need to know what kind of dispute it is..... encl. a copy of the letter and make sure it goes by rec. delivery.

[Kayyak]

I have now received a response from Natwest, guess it's the same as Priority One responded to with the letter in #26.

 

They say the Bank does not require customers to sign an agreement under the CCA. That's weid as I remember going into the branch and signing something for the O/D. They say a copy of the signed agreement is not available and does not need to be provided under the terms of S78.

 

Thanks Priority One for your letter of response peviously, very good letter, makes sense to me now. Have you had a reply to it yet?

Edited July 29, 2011 by Kayyak
extra comment

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

What they are talking about is the letter of the ''facility'' being accepted, it

is not a regulated agreement, it's just to say ''we offered an OD facility of £xxx, and you

have accepted.

[PriorityOne]

I have now received a response from Natwest, guess it's the same as Priority One responded to with the letter in #26.

 

They say the Bank does not require customers to sign an agreement under the CCA. That's weid as I remember going into the branch and signing something for the O/D. They say a copy of the signed agreement is not available and does not need to be provided under the terms of S78.

 

Thanks Priority One for your letter of response peviously, very good letter, makes sense to me now. Have you had a reply to it yet?

 

I do believe that if they haven't claimed Part V exemption, then they need to provide an actual Agreement.... (need to check) but nevertheless, a copy of any alleged Letter of Facility does need to be provided upon request. I would hold fire on this for now and see what else they send you... unless they're suggesting that they just gave you the money without any terms and conditions attached to it.... Wow!!

 

My friend has not had a reply to her letter yet, no.... although in her case, there were a number of extras added into the letter which should keep them busy for years.... lol!! Her situation had some notable differences to your own, that's why.

 

[PriorityOne]

I've just re-read this and realised that their response was to the CCA request and not to the letter in post 26..... so send the letter in post 26 now; adapted to suit your needs where necessary. By rec. delivery.

 

[Kayyak]

I've just re-read this and realised that their response was to the CCA request and not to the letter in post 26..... so send the letter in post 26 now; adapted to suit your needs where necessary. By rec. delivery.

 

 

I agree and will be sending the letter shortly . I am also waiting for the SAR information.

[Kayyak]

The EU Credit Directive which came into effect on 1 February 2011 is interesting, see Chapter 17 regarding overdrafts (hope I've linked it ok)

 

http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/consumer-issues/docs/c/10-1053-consumer-credit-directive-guidance.pdf

It states

"Overdrafts were previously exempt from Part V (entry into credit or hire agreements)

Section 74 is amended so that more of the requirements in Part V will now apply to authorised overdrafts and this is no longer dependent on an OFT determination Regulation 17 & 20

The following provisions of Part V of the CCA apply to authorised non-business overdrafts repayable on demand or within three months:

•section 55 (disclosure of information regulations),

•section 55B (assessment of creditworthiness),

•section 55C (copy of draft agreement),

•section 56 (antecedent negotiations),

•section 60 (regulations on form and content of agreements) and

•section 61B (duty to supply copy of overdraft agreement).

 

Need to read this in more detail and refer to the Sections quoted. Any thoughts/comments welcome.

[Mahou]

Hi everyone. There seem to be several knowledgeable posters here, so I wonder if someone can help, please?

 

I have a number of UK debts which I am unable to repay due to my circumstances. I notified all my creditors of my situation, and for about a year, my wife paid them £1 a month each, but as I have no hope of ever being able to pay the debts off, this has now ceased. I am dealing with each debt individually and the creditors are passing them to DCAs. I now live in Spain and still have no income, but my wife does, so we are able to survive.

 

Mint have assigned my debt to AIC. The legal definition of assigned leads me to believe that they have sold it to AIC. I have refused to discuss this by phone, and have told them in writing that I will not discuss it at all unless they can prove that they have bought the debt from Mint. Today I have heard that AIC have now been assigned my business overdraft by NatWest. They will not have linked the accounts as they have my name completely wrong on the overdraft correspondence. I have read all about CCA requests here, but does this apply to a business overdraft? I was a sole trader, so it was my name trading as the business name. They have part of the business name as my surname! This debt is £35k and is unsecured.. If I was in the UK, I would have declared bankruptcy in the UK by now, but it is too late now.

 

Please can anyone point me in the right direction with regards to the overdraft?

[brokebutnotbeatn]

If you live in Spain and are not intending to return any time soon AND you have no income or assets in the UK, I am not sure what you are trying to achieve here?

[Mahou]

I still owe the money and so my creditors continue to write to me in Spain, and call my Spanish mobile until I tell them not to, so I do need to deal with them.

[brokebutnotbeatn]

are youi intending to return to the UK then? Sorry, not up on EU law with regards what happens to debts when you live/move to an EU country. Others will be along to advise.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

CCA does no apply to current accounts or overdrafts.

[Kayyak]

In response to my SAR request, Natwest will not provide without a signature from me. I responded with a letter stating they send statments to my address and passed on my details to a 3rd party etc and they have replied again with the same old stuff: I must sign their letter AND visit my local branch for them to update my signature on their records. I feel I've reached stalemate now, any ideas how to proceed further. I no longer bank with them so they have no need for my signature. (I am still awaiting the letter of facility).

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

As you no longer bank with them IMHO

they are correct in asking for a signature,

as you are not their customer, if you want

the SAR you will have to sign, also I believe

there is no problems with giving a signature to a bank

it's normally CRA's who allegedly ''lift '' signatures:madgrin:

[gezwee]

Not always ;-)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?316796-Expert-believes-customer-s-signature-was-forged!!!

 

Gez

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I am aware of that case and contributed to

the thread, however this is a case of an

individual employee forging a signature

without the knowledge of superior as much

as I dislike banks in general I can't see that

there is any mass corporate fraud in progress

when SAR's are made to the banks.

[gezwee]

Hi Brig

 

If the noted case ever gets a hearing with full public disclosure I think you'll be surprised how far up the chain of command this one went.

 

With regard to Kayyaks current dilemma, I'm in agreement....... if the OP's signature is an unknown to the bank they can of course use a signature peculiar to this enquiry only [just in case ]

 

Gez

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I would doubt the case is going anywhere,

the ''chain'' of responsibility being lax in this case

was the root of the problem, if the responsible

persons are no doing their jobs properly then

that is a matter for the employer not the courts.

[chattanooga]

Kayyak, I had one or two concerns as well when I did a SAR. Easy way to sort it is to print out your SAR letter with some 'X's at the bottom and sign over them to alleviate any fears.