@npowerhelp NPower fitted a new elec meter in December and now my 'useage' has increased by 13 times!

[Surfer01]

Standing charge is per day and not per tariff. Probably be about £0.25 per day. Over a period of 45 days you are only using an average of 2.5 units per day but at night you are using 10 units between 12am and 8am. It virtually impossible for a 2 bedroom house with three occupants to only use 2.5 units between 0800 and 2400 hours unless nearly everything is switched off. Based on the unit charges supplied above your bill for the 45 day period should be less than £30. We had a one bedroom flat with two occupants away at work all day and gas heating. Our electric charges averaged at about £38 per month. Perhaps if you could post a copy of your last bill removing all identifying marks, I may be able to advise further.

[kryspyg]

See attached for the bill including lots of scribblings from me!

Remember the new meter fitted on 17/12 should start at 376 and 1855 rather than zero.

 

I understand the standing charge - was just not paying attention sufficiently when I looked at the costs per unit earlier!

S45C-311021116340.pdf

[Surfer01]

New meters should always start at zero. Looking at the bill reminded me why I left Npower many years ago as their bills are very confusing. Any idea why your standing charge went from £0.159 to £0.29p per day? You gave the wrong figures for night consumption as it should have been 2307 not 452 with day consumption for the same period at 488..Your day rate costs you £0.982. Night rate si correct.

I have worked out theri figures and compared them against mine and there is a difference of about £2.66. There are soem descrepancies. They have 48 days whereas I work it out at 45 days, same as you so they are overcharging there also? The other one seems to be the daily standing charge difference. The last day rate charge is different from the previous reading. Can you find out exactly when Npower increased their prices. You should have had a letter from them. On the bill they advise about the price change but do not define the dates.

I cannot undersrtand how you can be using about 10 units per day average and then 50 units for night time (E7) if you have gas heating. the day usage is about right but your night usage jumps right up when it should ne only about 4 - 5 units. Do you have huge floodlights and a tennis court and only sue it between 12am and 8am?

I am almost tempted to ask if you are sure that you do not have storage heaters, but the amount of your gas bill reflects this. Tonight check your night rate reading and then tomorrow after 8am check the reading again and let us know your consumption. Keep everything as per normal. Hope the above helps so far.

[davehsug]

Hi kryspyg. I'm concerned that you say that on your new meter rate 1 is day & rate 2 night. This is very unusual on newly installed meters & would explain why you think you are using more at night rather than day. I'd recommend reading your meter twice in 1 day. Once about 9 in the morning & again at 9 at night. The read which has advanced in that time will be your day rate reading.

npower's prices increased on the 4th January which explains why they are showing an estimated read on your bill for the 3rd.

Lastly, in an ideal world, all meters would be installed at 0 but sadly that is outside of the control of the supplier & entirely down to the meter operator.

[Surfer01]

All electrnic meters can be zero'ed and as the majority fitted are brand new they are zero anyway.. Rate 1 is always day time consumption. Rate 2 is night time consumption. If in doubt consult your supplier.

[davehsug]

Sorry Surfer that is simply not true. On a credit meter rate (reg) 01 should always be night rate (reg) 02 should always be day, that is the industry standard now. There are some exceptions which give all suppliers nightmares. On a PP key mtr rate 1 is day rate 2 is night (note the lack of zeros), although that is a lot less certain as widespread fraud has lead to keys resetting reads to zero & nobody being quite sure where they are.

[Surfer01]

Since when has thsi been the industry standard? How long have you been working in the electricity industry? Why is our very recently installed meter reflecting 1 as day units and 2 as night units? The same applies to our neighbours. Have they all got incorrectly installed meters?

[davehsug]

I have worked in the industry for almost 10 years. I don't know why your meter, or that of your neighbour has been installed that way, but I would beware of problems in the future. Sadly the plethora of meter operators these days has led to some strange things happening, remember when it comes to things like crossed registers, the suppliers are only as good as the information provided to them.

I frequently phone or write to customers asking them to do a 6 hour test on their meter so we can be sure which register is which. It may sound crude & unsurprisingly some customers meet us with abuse & accusations of incompetency, but it's the only way to be sure that a customer is being billed correctly!

[Surfer01]

Well all our customers were billed Rate 1 Day, Rate 2 night. I doubled checked just in case and according to our supplier SOUT I am still correct. You don't happen to work for Npower do you which would explain a lot? Your night rates are generally a lot higher than day rate as most, but not all E7 are for storage heaters.

Without trying to sound sarky, can I suggest that you check with your accounts department regarding the billing of the rates and if you are correct, then I can supply you with a list of suppliers that have all got it wrong. As` stated our daily consumption is about 8 units and night or off peak consumption is about 40 units per 24 hours.

In the meantime I am sure that you can offer some valuable help with other utility supply issues.

[mattlamb]

In the Eastern area, rate 2 is normally the day rate and rate 1 is the night rate, Surfer. That is definitely the case. I work as a meter reader so I should know!

There are exceptions to this rule. Digital meters made by Iskra use rate 1 as the day and rate 2 as the night. If the meter gets fitted by Southern (my employer) rather than Siemens (who have fitted most meters in the Eastern area) then rate 1 will be the day rate and rate 2 the night.

 

Furthermore, it is most definitely not unusual for an electric meter to be fitted on readings higher than 0. This often happens. Mewters often get taken out of one property, get tested and then are fitted somewhere else. The electric meter in my own flat was fitted on a reading of 26215 back in Feb 2010 (when I had the previous occupant's prepayment meter taken out).

 

OP, take Dave's advice. He knows what he's talking about!

[davehsug]

I am aware of the Southern situation but since your reads & flows tend to come labelled day & night it makes the situation somewhat easier. I was referring to the more normal situation where 01 & 02 is the usual labelling.

I have to syt it seems absolutely ridiculous to me, even after all these years, that there isn't a standard enforced by OFGEM for E7 meters, it would save so much confusion for both suppliers & more especially customers. It would be the easiest way to solve what is, I'm sure you'll agree , the most common metering issue we all come across.

[mattlamb]

It's the two rate digital meters that are the worst. The older analogue meters actually tell you on the meter which is the day and which is the night rate (unless it has an ancient MRU attached to it). The digital meters just say rate 1 and 2. A few have a sticker attached telling you which reading is which - but the majority don't.

 

On a meter reader's handheld machine it will only tell us rate 1 and 2. It is then up to us to make an intelligent guess as to which way round the readings should go onto our handheld (bear in mind we are not told the last readings)

Edited February 15, 2011 by mattlamb
Typo mistakes

[Surfer01]

It's the two rate digital meters that are the worst. The older analogue meters actually tell you on the meter which is the day and which is the night rate (unless it has an ancient MRU attached to it). The digital meters just say rate 1 and 2. A few have a sticker attached telling you which reading is which - but the majority don't.

 

On a meter reader's handheld machine it will only tell us rate 1 and 2. It is then up to us to make an intelligent guess as to which way round the readings should go onto our handheld (bear in mind we are not told the last readings)

 

I never knew that meters in the Eastern area had their readings reversed however in this case both Dave and myself are correct, but this wouls make no difference to the readings supplied to the supplier on the D10.. I am surprised that you say electronic meters are the worst as in my opinion theya re the easiest to read. During the day, only the day rate is visible but when it switches to rate 2 only that is visible. In order to see the other rate, one needs to press the button on the meter which then tells you the time, date etc plus the other reading.

When we received the D10 flow from the meter reader, it states the reads as read by the meter reader, but if they got the reads mixed up the supplier has no way of checking this and the customer is billed accordingly according to register reads which are also on the MTDs received from the meter operator. In essence it is the customer's interpretation of reading the meter correctly as a meter reader or operator should know their job.

The OP has not replied regarding meter reads so I suggest we wait until they supply these. As the meter is in the EELC area and supplied by Npower and as mentioned EELC work a...e about face there is the possibility that Npower are billing it incorrectly, i.e. they are assuming the rate one reading is a day rate when it is a night rate. However currently the OPs consumption is approxiamtely 45 units for the night rate which would be a high day rate for a 3 bedoom domestic residence.

[mattlamb]

You don;t always press a button on a digital meter to see the other reading. Some digital meters flick between each reading and the total intermittently without any buttons being pressed (in fact this type of meter does not have any buttons). It is easy with this type of meter for the readings to be mixed up.

 

In contast, analogue meters display each reading permanently with "normal (or day) and low (or night) etched into the meter design beside the relevant reading. They also have the added advantage that the meter reading won't disappear from view if a fault develops with the meter. Digital meters are also more difficult to read than analogue (non-dial) meters. The light can reflect badly on the digital display and the display is a lot smaller and less crisp than on an analogue meter

 

A lot of people assume that digital is always better than analogue. I beg to differ with electric meters!

 

I'm sprry if I sound like a trainspotter, by the way!

[Surfer01]

You don;t always press a button on a digital meter to see the other reading. Some digital meters flick between each reading and the total intermittently without any buttons being pressed (in fact this type of meter does not have any buttons). It is easy with this type of meter for the readings to be mixed up.

Whichever MO is installing meters like that deserves to quartered and hung up. What a ridiculous system and in all my time in the industry neither myself of any of my collegues have come across this type of meter but then we are based in the Midlands and our preferred MO is MSL. No wonder mistakes are made. I wonder what has happened to the OP.

[sir_gilmour]

Hi

Welcome to The Consumer Action Group.

 

 

I am just letting you know that as you haven't had any replies to your post yet, it might be better if you post your message again in an appropriate sub-forum. You will get lots of help there.

 

Also take some time to read around the forum and get used to the layout. It is a big forum and takes a lot of getting used to.

 

 

Once you start to find your way, you will soon realise that it is fairly easy to get round and to get the help you need.

 

It can be bit confusing at first.