Won Tribunal, Employer wont pay

[Jammin1984]

Hi all,

 

I posted this evening in another forum and was told to ask in here instead. However, thanks to my low post count I cant post links. So here it is quoted:

 

Hi all, ive just discovered this forum and it has given me a glimer of hope!

 

If i am reposting a question which has already been asked i apologise. To my legally niave self it seems there are so many variables that no two people are in the same boat.

 

My ex employer owes me just under £4K in unpaid wages. I have a winning employment tribunal saying so also.

 

It is a ltd company. However the company is now basically just a name; it has no staff or seizable assets. It is just a virtual office and postbox. Therefore, as far as know there is no point sending in the balifs; it is the company that is liable, not the owner and therefore I cannot send the ballifs to his property.

 

So i am stumped at what my options are. It seems to me that an employeer can disregard any debt with the only consequences been a poor credit rating. It also makes me think the tribunal result isnt worth a penny.

 

I know that if he put the company into liquidation that I could claim back a good chunk of the owed amount via National Insurance / RPO. However I know he has a business loan secured against his home therefore will never do this.

 

Additionally he has not paid my tax or national insurance for any of 09/10.

 

Im at a loss of what my options are. I have looked at the "Got a judgement?" sticky in this forum and it looks that "An Order To Attend" may be the road to go down? Or would you good folks recommend another course of action?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated and any options considered!

 

Thanks

 

And i was told

 

I dont think bailiffs can help you because there are no tangibles. You can petition for a Winding up Order. That will scupper him being a director a Ltd company for a good long time and might trump up the goods.

 

 

Am I right by winding up order you mean #5 "Statutory Demand" listed on the "Got A Judgement" sticky? (Sorry I cant post links until post count of 20)

 

Would this mean I would have to pay the cost of liquidation fees, and a solicitors fees? If so, is there anyway around this?

 

Any advice would again be much appreciated.

 

Thanks!

 

Ive just looked on companies house, and it looks like he has changed the registered address of the company back to his home just before Christmas. Does this mean I can send the baliffs to his home?

Edited January 4, 2011 by Jammin1984

[nicklea]

yes you're right that if you want to go the whole way with this then it will cost some money.

 

However, the first stage doesn't cost anything

 

You may have read other threads here about DCAs sending out statutory demands to people to try and frighten them into paying - well you can do exactly the same thing to him and it won't cost you anything - other than postage.

 

There are different statutory demands depending on the circumstances.

 

You say that a court has made a judgement against them, in that case this is the form to use it is form 6.2:-

 

http://insolvency.gov.uk/forms/ew/6-2%20-%20Statutory%20demand%20under%20section%20268(1)(a)%20of%20the%20Insolvency%20Act%201986%20-%20debt%20for%20liquidated%20sum%20payable%20immediately%20following%20a%20judgment%20or%20order%20of%20the%20court.doc

 

If that link doesn't work then go here and download it from this website:-

 

http://insolvency.gov.uk/forms/englandwalesforms.htm

 

What you need to do then is fill it out and then either post it to him or - and I would suggest that this might have more of an effect - serve it on him personally.

 

If you are going to post it then I would suggest sending it Special Delivery so he knows that you're serious about this.

 

The thing is here is to try and call his bluff. If he thinks you're serious then he may be likely - from what you've said - to want to do a deal with you

[nicklea]

On second thoughts, the fact that it is a company I think is more important than the fact that there is a judgement so you need to use form 4.1 which is to use against companies:-

 

http://insolvency.gov.uk/forms/ew/Form4-01.doc

[Jammin1984]

This is exactly what i was looking for, thank you nicklea!

 

As advised I will go with the 4.1. In the "Particulars of Debt" section should I mention the winning tribunal result?

 

Do I also fill out "Part B For completion if the creditor is entitled to the debt by way of assignment?" And if so, how?

 

And, the big question, what happens after the 21 days?

 

Again, thank you so much!

[Ganymede]

This is exactly what i was looking for, thank you nicklea!

 

As advised I will go with the 4.1. In the "Particulars of Debt" section should I mention the winning tribunal result?

 

Do I also fill out "Part B For completion if the creditor is entitled to the debt by way of assignment?" And if so, how?

 

And, the big question, what happens after the 21 days?

 

Again, thank you so much!

 

 

 

1) Yes mention all the details of the tribunal result.

 

2) No do not fill in Part B.

 

3) You will need to issue a Winding Up petition but be warned this will cost you the best part of a grand.

[Jammin1984]

Hi Ganymede, thanks for the response.

 

I have been told I can claim up to 8 weeks unpaid wages, if the company is put into liquidation, via national insurance. This is up to a max of £3160. I have yet to confirm all the details of this with the government redundancy helpline.

 

Also, Part A, is this just the address I would like any response to the form sent? Ie my details?

 

Thanks again.

[nicklea]

on the front page the where it says

 

Demand

 

To

 

You put in the name of the company and it's address YYYY Ltd

 

where it says this demand is served on you by the creditor put in your name and address as you are the creditor

 

EDIT - also at the bottom of the front page where it says name, address and tel number put in your details again

 

As Ganymede said, put in all the details of the employment tribunal, maybe something like

 

At the Employment Tribunal held at zzzz on xx/xx/xxxx case number 1234 between xxx and yyy the Tribunal ordered yyyy Ltd to pay the creditor the sum of xxx and costs of xxx

 

Despite repeated requests for payment, yyy Ltd has failed to make payment of the amount ordered by the Employment Tribunal

 

 

 

To be honest, the whole point of doing this, at first, is to frighten this guy into paying up. This is what statutory demands are for.

 

If he lives close enough and you feel up to confronting him then I would suggest that it might be worthwhile serving it on him personally.

 

He may well say - look there are no assets in the company so you can't get any money. If you then say you aren't interested in the money but you just want to get the company wound up then, if what you say is correct that he has a loan linked to the business, then he may well rethink he position if you convince him of your seriousness in seeing this through to the end.

 

If you don't feel up to doing it in person then send it by Special Delivery because you need to be able to prove that he has received it. If you do post it then you can always add a letter as well explaining that you are serious about seeing this through to the end. You might want to point out to him in casae he doesn't realise it that ALL debts the company have will have to be repaid immediately if it is wound up.

 

If this doesn't work and he doesn't pay up then you either have to walk away or go through with your threat and this will cost, as Ganymede says, 1000 quid which you will need to find upfront before you go to court. But hopefully, it won't copme to that. If it does, let us know and we'll give you some help with what to do.

Edited January 5, 2011 by nicklea

[Jammin1984]

Again nicklea thank you so much.

 

Im going to get everything together at the weekend and sent off.

 

I will post back once I get a response, or lack of one!

 

Thanks

[Elmo South]

Just something for you to think about - you said the tax and National Insurance was unpaid for 2009/10. Have you contacted HM Revenue & Customs to tell them this? If you have proof you suffered deductions, your NAtional insurance contributions can be deeemed to your NI record. Additionally there is a chance that the company owes HMRC far more than just your tax & NI & that they may want to pursue the company & wind them up ( which would save you the cost) or that if HMRC start action, the director may be forced to wind the company up.

 

Additionally if you look at this link on the Employment tribunal website http://www.employmenttribunals.gov.uk/FAQ/faqs.htm you will see that you can go to court to obtain a CCj against the company for your outstanding award - although this would cost, it will reflect on the company's credit record & whoever has lent the business loan would be very interetsed to see this on their credit record.

 

Another thing that occurs to me is that if there is a loan, it must be being paid or the lender would be taking action to take posession of the director's house so the company must have some income. If you obtained aCCj you could also ask for an Oral Examination in Court & the director will have to answer questions & provide evidence about the comapny finances ( under oath if necessary).

 

And finally!! You say there are no assets, but have you gone on to Companies House & obtained copies of the company accounts? They will only cost a couple of pounds but may show there are assets in which case you may have something to secure against. What they may also show is how much money has gone in & out of the company & the director's remuneration. If the director has caused the finacial problems by being reckless, a Receiver will be very interetsed if the company is liquidated & the director may be made persoanally liable for the company debts or forced to repay money they have extracted.

 

Happy hunting.

 

Elmo