MBNA - Link County Court Claim - ** CASE DISMISSED**

[AndyOrch]

Right, have decided that I am going to claim that I did not receive the CCA information that they have sent me. They were missing the Terms from when the account was opened and no statement of account.

 

Here is what I have so far and comments are welcome!!

 

Now , I was also thinking about paying them this month, just in case this tactic doesn't work, then at least if it did go to court, the judge could see that payments were made.

 

You refer to section 77 is this a loan? if not and is a Credit card amend to section 78.

 

Also 30 days is now not applicable

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[AndyOrch]

Hi Manc1976

 

Yes thats from my thread i just posted.are you saying that there are no figures at all on the Default Notice?

 

Regards

 

andy

[AndyOrch]

Hi manc

 

Ok full amount being requested to breach the Default Dont forget that what I have posted only comes into effect from 1st October.

more importantly the refence to on or after the 6th Oct this agreement will be terminated.So subject to when you recieved the Default notice hope you retained the envelope and the dates specified not only have they failed to request the arrears they are also terminating the agreement.Link are well known for this and need to be reeducated in consumer law on how to issue a Default Notice.Once terminated it is no longer.Very difficuilt to isuue litigation on a terminated Agreement IMHO:D

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[AndyOrch]

Why bother there will be no agreement on or after the 6th.Their words so how can you enforce a Terminated agreement? beggers belief disregard the DN and see what the Muppets come up with next.

 

Regards

Andy;)

[AndyOrch]

Hi Rob i Trust you are well

 

All huff and puff and smoke screens.These guys like to think they are the Pit Bull of DCAs and apply their own little knowledge of Credit Consumer Law backed by MBNAs American laws.If there is no CCA and if they want to iissue an invalid DN let them get on with it,They are one of the best however at creating you own case for harrassment and defamation counter claim.Let them dig the hole enough said me thinks.

 

Regards

 

Andy:D

Edited October 7, 2008 by Andyorch

[AndyOrch]

Exactly why poke the bear any further they are already licking their wounds hence the invalid DN.Easy for me to say you may say but lets say been there done it and know the outcome.Be patient bide your time they will pass it back to MBNA.

 

Regards

 

andy

 

 

Regards

 

andy

[AndyOrch]

As an a side Manc I bet the Account /Reference number does not even match with your original MBNA Account correct?

[AndyOrch]

It serves no useful purpose whatsoever to send any letters to OC's/DCA's once a CCA request has been made! In fact, if anything it will have a detrimental effect on your case! I have been making this point till I'm blue in the face and unfortunately some people on here are giving contrary advice, when they know nothing about the litigation process! Nobody can afford to take a narrow view of a situation once pmt problems start, you have to look ahead from a well rounded perspective. Hence why I say start preparing for a Court claim to be issued from day one!

 

Consider the following two scenarios:

 

A CCA request is sent to an OC. They don't comply either with the 12 w/d . Having been told by people on here to pester the life out of the OC/DCA until you get an agreement or confirmation that one no longer exists, you start firing off letters. Within 2 months (for example) and after various letters you've sent, they provide you with an agreement. Lets for arguments sake assume it's enforceable, they then issue a claim and get Judgment, because aside from a few penalty charges totalling £300, you don't have a case against them, The fact that they didn't provide the agreement for 3mnths, is neither here nor there. So it's all over, they win and you end up paying them forever and a day and if you're really lucky they'll put a Charging Order on your

property for good measure!

 

Then there's the second scenario that for some bizarre reason posters dont understand:-

 

The CCA request is sent to the OC and the deadlines come and go and they don't respond, in fact by all appearances the request has been completely ignored, which is great news, it's time to start monitoring everything the OC does! They send all manner of threatening letters and phone calls are being received 6 days a week, on average 8 times a day, all logged of course! You answer the calls, but refuse to go through security and tell them each time they ring to put everything in writing. You don't mention the CCA request on the phone, in fact you don't tell them anything about laws they've broken, you simply carry on making a record of all calls and in particular any abuse you're subjected to. The calls continue for 6mnths and then they stop suddenly. They sell the debt on to one of the lovely DCA's, having still not provided the agreement, but we're not remotely concerned about that! They start bombading you with letters and calls, both of which are much more threatening. You continue doing what you did with the OC. After 5mnths, they issue a Court claim. In your Defence you can confidently state that you requested an agreement 11mnths ago, (which you can prove because you have the g/d slip and it was signed for on ???) which hasn't been furnished. So, the OC has unlawfully sold the alleged debt on whilst being in default of the request and that's for starters..... You have been unlawfully harassed by letter and phone by both the OC/DCA in the absence of an agreement. The DCA has processed your personal info unlawfully under the Data Protection Act 1998, as they had no legal right to do so because the OC had no legal right to sell the debt. There are other offences under the Data Protection Act 98 also, but I haven't got time to list them all! lol You haven't been provided with a DoA, so they haven't proved a right to issue a claim. The NoA wasn't sent to you, so they can't enforce the alleged debt. When they do provide it, (as part of the proceedings) it's incorrect, so therefore unlawful on that basis also. It is a breach of confidence that your personal info has been provided to the DCA, which you can claim damages for. It is also an invasion of your privacy, which is covered by the Human Rights Act (HRA). They eventually get round to providing the agreement and it is enforceable, but it doesn't matter, they can't get round the DoA or NoA, so they're screwed-oh dear! So as well as having a watertight defence, you have a c/c for harassment, breaches under the DPA, HRA and breach of confidence for which you will be seeking substantial damages of

course!

 

If it turns out to be case that the agreement isn't enforceable or no longer exists, then both the OC and DCA are in even bigger trouble, as neither of them have any legal right to process your personal info and you have been harassed for a debt that doesn't even exist! I think that damages claim has just increased even more.....! Oh and not forgetting, there is the small matter of the "agreement" not being produced in 11mnths or at all! Which is going to look worse to a Judge, an agreement not produced in 3mnths or 11mnths? And, by the same token what looks worse, an unenforceable agreement (UA) produced after nearly a year, accompanied by harassment and all the other unlawful acts, or a UA produced after three mnths, at which point a claim is issued, which deprives you of the opportunity of building a case against the OC?

 

So it all comes back to the issue of what to do when a creditor doesn't comply with a CCA request and the answer is simple.... do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!! Ignore the advice of anyone who tells you otherwise, they don't know what they're talking about!

 

 

Sorry its a bit long but hope this explains my approach on how to deal with the process

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Thank you Manc

 

 

Yes send S.A.R thats a different matter and serves a different purpose

I wish you well with all your endevours

 

 

Regards

 

Andy:)

[AndyOrch]

hiya andya

 

so on post87 fab info, ive got a few threads on the go , so as they have not compiled with the copy of the cca, you would suggest then to stop any agreed payments too, as ive been paying for the past few months an agreed amount but now with the cca scenario ive not paid one of my creditors as not had the cca only terms and conditions, so have already sent a letter advising not had the proper cca.

 

So if i am taken to court i am within my rights to stop the payments until i get the valid and true cca? Even before Litigation if no valid CCA is furnished surely this does affect thecredit rating ? Yes but its unlawfull and defamotry DPA etc

 

so its after the court case the credit report could be repaired then i guess? Yes if it got that far and can also be repaired before Litigation

 

just thinking long term and out of the box, hope my questions help others too

 

sorry to jump in have a good day all ciao for now and also have subscribed

MAZ

 

 

I wish you well with your objectives

 

Regards

 

Andy:cool:

[AndyOrch]

Hi Andy, i have received the same DN as mentioned here, along with the termination threat, this is a business card which they seem to believe i have personal liability for.

 

 

So i've been told that a CCA request wouldn't work, being a business card....which if it is correct surely strengthens my case as it is a business debt? Whos buisness? whos name on the card? who gets the statements?

 

 

So would you advise, not poking the bear or something else?

 

 

Regards Styeffo

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Apologies to Manc, for all the interest his thread as generated ,Styeffo I will take a look tomoroow if ok I have three defences to prepare before tomorrow.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[AndyOrch]

Bumping

[AndyOrch]

Hello Folks

Sent of CCA request and just recived some paperwork back from mbna have not had time to read yet

I love this site and keep passing on to my family and friends but alot are not interested due to having mental blocks about the all powerful banks

Me i do not care i have been following this thread and like the idea of if they do not supply correct details in the CCA then just do nothing and wait collecting evidence

 

all the best

max

 

Hi Pol welcome to Mancs thread.It really is counter productive to chase once you have requested your CCA unless of course you are involved in litigation with the Creditor.I take it you have read my post 87 and I am delighted that people are actually beginning to see my point.

 

I wish you well in your conquests

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[AndyOrch]

Hi Andy, this is my first post here and I have just read your #87 post. I had wondered for some time about what you state there. It seems that a noisy DCA implies they have something to worry about. I recently had a DN from Link, mine was for 4th October although I did contact the National Debt helpline, they advised to write to them and ask for a copy of there complaints procedure first, before contacting Consumer direct to report them for defaulting on a disputed debt.

 

I CCA'd em a year ago, which took nearly 3 months to get a return. When I received this it was actually a copy of a small application form I origionally completed and signed from a fold up leaflet. How can I get someone to verify that this is not a valid CCA, as I am begining to panic a little now, wondering what is happening.

 

Can you get the DN removed if the OC had already defaulted on the debt, my origional was in 2004. ?

 

Regards

 

Easymeat:(

 

 

Hi Easymeat and welcome to CAG

 

Ok the DN recieved from link dated 4th Oct I would not concern yourself with as they are not worth the paper they are wrote on and totally invalid.

You need to confirm have Link been assigned the debt from your O/C and beit a total assignment.There are mixed reports in this thread and on Cag that link are saying they own the debts and then retrackting saying MBNA are their Clients so its anyones guess.Link cannot issue DN unless they have full assignment of your debt nor issue legal proceedings in their own name.Do you ever recall recieving a NoA (Notice of Assignment) from MBNA to yourself that Link have aquired your debt? I very much doubt so and therefore your original DN from the OC will stand till either you have rectified the breach and will remain on your Credit File for 6 years or in fact the debt is wrote off.

 

I trust the above helps

 

Regards

 

Andy:cool:

[AndyOrch]

Hi Easymeat it would depend if links assignment is absolute ie they own the debt complete and its rights.If you have defaulted on a agreement and the breach has never been rectified the agreement is in effect terminated.Now if no new agreement as ever been signed with link ( which you would not) then in effect the debt cant be breached again.Thats one of the reasons when a breached or terminated agreement is passed to a DCA they are keen to get you to make some payments towards the account and in their eyes rectify the breach ,which it dosent.neither can they issue a DN for an agreement which as been terminated from the O/C

If you would like to post up a copy via Photobucket we will see what you have.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited October 18, 2008 by Andyorch

[AndyOrch]

Hi Easymeat

 

Without us actually highjacking Mancs thread (Apologies) you really need to start your own thread on this to enable yourself to monitor your situation.With regards to the above a nice application form.Not enforcable and certainally not a CCA.If you wish to stop payments thats a choice only you can make and if your prepared for the battle. I can only advise irrespective of the balance, will the fight be worth the pound a month and the possability of a default on your CRA.The debt cant be enforced on the above application form.Your Call.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Hi Manc I trust you are well.

 

Not quite sure what AC means in his post.You are entitled to the NoA if infact MNBA have isssued one and whether Link has also.With regards to the DoA only a Court can order this to be shown as it contains sensitive information which you are not privy to.The fact that litigation has not commenced in your case also I am confused as to why you would need it anyway.

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[AndyOrch]

What should and shouldnt is anyones guess when this pair are put together.Im sure if they do commence proceedings then they will pull one from somwhere.lets hope its as valid as their DNs then you would have no ploblem defending said actions.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Link Financial, must provide documentary evidence that they have been legally assigned the alledged debt;

Of course it wil contain sensitive information, that it why both parties are reluctant to provide such!

 

AC

 

Of course a NoA which does not contain sensitive information but not a DoA I trust that is what you refer to as the the Bill of sale in your post

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

I have actually seen an MBNA DoA!

 

AC

 

Says everything about them then dosent it ie dont know what they are doing and sending sensitive info in error, bet you have never seen any of the major banks or other Credit Card companies DoAs!!

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

The DoA always has and always will be kept secretive it has no bearing on the creditor or your case it merely states how much they aquired the debt for.As i said only a DJ can force sight of this by way of an order not that it would have any relevence in your case why should it? The NoA is what you request sight of.

 

I trust that clarifies my point

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Hi again Manc

 

They are legally requred to provide all data held on you under your S.A.R request.As you state it refers to the sale of the debt therefore as i stated have they (MBNA) issued one to you and you have not recieved it or have they just not issued anything? Have link sent one to state that they have aquired your debt who knows?This is when you hit them with the prove it letter to establish if they have the authority to collect on the debt along with your CCA request. Either way its irrelevent until they issue proceeding against you that is a matter for your defence if and should you have to defend.

 

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

With the greatest of respect, documentary evidence of the right to pursue a debt must be supplied.

 

Link Financial are playing cat & mouse;

they cannot have their cake and eat it!

 

AC

 

Angrycat

 

Its really not on to have this disagreement in the middle of someone elses thread and apologise in adavance to Manc.I have given you the bennefit of my knowledge on this matter and you appear to be unable to grasp my point.For arguments sake lets say they they send you the DoA will you clarify for the rest reading this thread what would you gleen from said document to assist you in your case with the OC?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Why have you split the thread Manc you realise you lose all the background.Ill arrange to merge them again.

 

Regards

 

Andy