Son Neglected In Hospital

[Night Owl]

These people will never admit to neglect as they do not want to loose their lucrateve jobs, which at the end of the day that is all that matters to them.

They are not in it for caring purposes. I object strongly to these comments. I am a nurse and work damm hard in my job which I enjoy. I care 100% plus for my job and those I care for. I'm sick to the back teeth of the public slagging us off. It's the goverment messing about with the NHS as a service that are at fault not the nursing staff. We are working under severe target setting by the government which unsustainable.

I am not sure if you can do a SAR and see with NHS but it would shows up what has been done.

 

It must be very stressful for you to cope with all of this it is bad enough when you see your son like this but having to cope with all fobbing off as well is dreadful

 

Look after yourself.

 

Glitterlady,

I feel desperately sorry for the position you and your son are in.

From your account of events I believe that your son was attmitted to your local hospital with a chest infection.

Did he have a chest X ray to prove this on admission to hospital?

What were his symptoms?

Did he have a high temperature......above 38C?

Did he have blood cultures and CRP taken with the temperature?

Does he have any underlying condition that would cause him to aspirate?

What did he aspirate?

 

So many questions but I don't understand why he was not treated for a chest infection which then caused his condition to deteriorate so drastically.

 

Night Owl

[Night Owl]

This is Glitterladys thread about her sick son. I don't know how old her son is and can only offer advice as Glitterlady gives us the information.

 

I feel desperately sad that patients don't receive good, effective nursing care and I will for one make sure it never happens where I work.

 

Sali, I agree that everyone has good and bad experiences of the NHS because of the very animal it is. It is a service that puts us as patients or carers in a very vulnerable position which adds to the stressful experience of being sick.

 

As nurses we are accountable for our actions and in my area of work we take that very seriously. We make sure the partnership between the patient, carer and multidisciplnary team works to the patients advantage.

 

Errors, however serious, are delt with with care and compassion for those involved and the correct paperwork and managment involvement is taken seriously.

 

I do object to us all being tarred with the same evil brush. I am passionate about my job but do understand that there are some less so and that makes me sad.

[Night Owl]

It is not the patients that are evil.... it is 'some' of the hospital staff. I do not mean you Night Owl as you come across as a caring person. It is sad that there are professionals in hospitals that are only there for the salary at the end of the month. That will be the pen pushing managers.

The public are not aware that the nurses pay rise is always split into 2! We get the first part of our rise in April and the second half in August so that they can save money! What other profession would accept that?

 

 

 

You say that errors however serious are dealt with care and compassion but the OP post said that the doctor that spoke to them did not say sorry for what had happen in the hospital that her son was in. I can only comment on the area I work in to give a balanced view otherwise it is a top heavy sweeping statement. Also how can notes be lost in a hospital in this day and age? Sadly notes go missing all the time. When a patient is in hospital the notes are seen by lots of people involved in their care. They are then sent to the consultants secretary on the patients discharge or death for follow up letters to be written or clinic appointments to be made. ITU (Intensive Care Unit) do keep their own nursing observation charts, in our hospital, which are huge sheets of paper. A discharge summery is written by the ITU consultant on the patients discharge or death and is filled in their medical notes.

 

I hope this clarifies a few points raised.

[Night Owl]

so why are they deny they told us this was neglect and by the director of ITU himself, and a nurse, they put my son in prone position for 20 hours there was not enough staff to turn him and when they did they said it went seriously wrong What do they mean by "seriously wrong"? if an incident happen did they complete an incident form and report it? You should have been informed of the details of an incident happening, an apology and a treatment plan if required. he has a massive scar on his head we dont know how he got this, his mouth was cut open he had a big black hair stuck to his lip, he wasnt on the right mattress and had a towel rolled up under his forhead for 20 hours, do you think this is right? No, I think this sounds like incorrect positioning, and should not be used for a prolonged time. also a nurse shouted at him after he woke for short time she shouted at a very sick patient and yes i have complained about her but you can guarantee they wont do anything to her she was rude to us and very nasty to other visitors in ITU , i have pics of my sons face all bashed and swollen Have you shown these photos to the consultant caring for your son in ITU for answers? Have you shown PALS? he never had this when he went in and being in pron position he was heavly sedated and had a paralsis drug so he could even move so how did he hurt hiself, we believe they dropped him but there is NO nursing notes no chat about the neglect its all be taken out this is disgusting

 

A ventilated and paralysed patient should have a pressure area assessment done on admission. They should be put on the correct mattress/air bed on the results of this assessment. Your son would have been considered, in my opinion, as high risk of developing pressure areas because of his imobility. His position should have been changed on a regular basis every 2 hours, this is basic nursing care.

 

when he was transfered to the lung hospital they asked us did the local take a swab i said i have no idea, so they did one it came back my son had SWINEFLU but the local said they dont swab for swineflu yet he had lung failure kidney failure and his liver was failing, he had swineflu yet they didnt treat him till it was to late by then he was dieing

 

At the height of the Swine Flu outbreak our Hospital swabbed every patient with a respiratory history and isolated them until proven as Swine Flu or not. I work in Paediatrics and we were very, very busy. We have now stopped doing that screening.

 

nightowl im sorry that you have been dragged into this being a nurse, Glitterlady, I haven't been dragged into anything. I joined CAG for help and advice, and the community here has helped me enormously. I lurk on the NHS threads because I believe I can offer help and advice to others in return. but your right not all nurses are like that, you sound a lovely person and work very hard at your job and i can now see what is happening in the NHS BUT my son has lung failure hes on oxygen and was in a wheelchair and all because of neglect at my hospital, the lies they have told, and to admit neglect to us then retract it is disgusting, but with out his notes i will have trouble in proving this but i have pics of him in ITU i also did a journal everyday so its all written down daily, thats my proof, i wont ever trust a hospital doctor again after this, if they can lie like they have done, but i wont give up till i make them admit what they did, my sons lungs are damaged badly hes 34 years old,

 

Whilst you and your son were on ITU did the doctors and nurses explain everything they were doing, changes in treatment, medication etc...

Do you remember him being on a special mattress?

 

I feel desperatly sad for you and your son for the obvious bad care he received when he should have received good, effective care.

 

I wish you the best of luck in tracking down the answers.

 

Night Owl

[Night Owl]

Medical records, known as the patients "Notes", move around the hospital from wards to clinics to consultants secretaries and to the consultants themselves all the time. When the patient is no longer being treated the "Notes" are returned to the Medical records secretary for filling on the shelves of medical records where they stay.

 

Whilst the patient is on the wards as an inpatient, the notes should remain on the ward they are on. If they move to ITU within that hospital then the notes go with them to that unit.

 

The medical staff, and multidisciplinary team (physios, dietitians, etc...) will write in these notes of tests done and changes to treatment.

 

There are, and always will, be delays in finding notes when the patient is discharged because of the system of returning them to medical records.

 

Nursing notes, such as care plans, evaluations of care, observation charts, and prescription charts are updated by the nurses and are available for the medical staff and patients to view. On discharge these nursing notes are filled with the medical notes by the ward secretaries.

 

If a patient is transfered to another hospital, copies are made of the relevant information for the receiving hospital and the original notes stay behind. Each hospital will have their own set of notes, and registration ID number, per patient and they will not leave that hospital.

 

I have seen patients notes go "missing" but always seem to be found on somebodies desk. I have never known of notes go missing permanently.

[Night Owl]

Hi Glitterlady,

I'm glad I have been able to help.

The Waterlow score is a tick box chart which assesses the patients risk of developing a pressure sore.

Judy Waterlow, Waterlow Score, Pressure Ulcer Care and Pressure Ulcer Risk Assessment, Waterlow Scale, Pressure Ulcer Prevention

 

From ours it covers

1. Build - underweight

normal

overweight

2. Respiratory - self ventilating

ventilated

3. Continence - continent

incontinent

catheterized

and the list goes on.

Each tick gives a different score and they add up to a number that will give you a pressure risk score which will alert nursing staff if the patient is,

No risk, at risk, or high risk of developing a pressure sore.

This result enables the nursing staff to provide the patient with the correct mattress and support to prevent a pressure sore developing.

 

This should be part of the Hospital Policy for Pressure Sore Prevention and should be completed for each patient whether they are mobile or not.

Each Hospital should undertake an Audit of these results on a regular basis.

THIS IS BASIC NURSING CARE!!!!

Edited July 7, 2010 by Night Owl

[Night Owl]

Glitterlady,

as I said before, ITU use their own nursing paperwork because their charts for recording information are so big. There should be a doctors transfer/discharge summary and a brief nursing letter transfering your son to your local hospital.

If your son was on an ITU of a London Hospital the nursing notes should make their way back to the medical notes OF THAT hospital only.

[Night Owl]

Hi Glitterlady,

 

unexplained injuries would be photographed as evidence, in my opinion, especially if the patient has been transfered from another hospital.

The injuries should have been explained on transfer or the accepting consultant should have sought that information from the local hospital.

 

Are you aware of an incident report being completed for the injuries?

How have they explained these injuries to you?

 

The Swine Flu swab would be down to each Hospital Policy at the time of your sons admission. Each Hospital will have this policy IN PRINT.

 

If you son had problems swallowing and was choking, a SALT (Speech And Language Therapy) assessment should have been made to assess his safety with food and drink.

 

Paracetamol can be given in other ways to reduce a temperature.

Oral, as tablets or dispersable.

Rectal, as a suppository.

Intravenous, through a drip into a cannula in a hand.

[Night Owl]

at the local hospital no photographs were taken by staff but we did and have them now, it was when he was transfered the london hospital took pics of his face and asked us how he got the head injury we told them we didnt know because no one would tell us even though we asked is all they said was that he was put in prone and when they turned him it went seriously wrong but wouldnt say how serious they just wouldnt answer us,i remember a nurse filling out a form cos she said to another nurse that we were undtaffed and couldnt move him(my son)

This is serious. If an incident involving a patient happens an incident form should be completed and it should be recorded in the nursing notes and medical notes. A doctor should have examined the patient whether there was an injury or not. The Clinical Site Team should have been informed and also signed the form with the person completing it and any witness's. If they were short staffed then the patient should not have been moved until the correct amount of staff were made available to carry out the simple procedure safely for the patient and the staff. Extra staff should have been found as turning a patient who is unable to alone is priority. The patient is at high risk of developing a pressure sore if not moved.

 

but the london hospital had no idea what happened to him and was constantly asking us maybe that why they took photos of his face because it wasnt them who did it, they have never explained his injuries

This is really serious that they cannot account and explain your sons "injuries" to you. It was the local hospital that had the duty of care to your son at that time and they are the ones that must explain this, not the London Hospital.

 

to us each time we asked they would say we are getting to that but firstly lets discus this or that never what happened my son was bringing up green phlem, they saw this but still gave him icecream he was sick as soon as they gave it to him and he aspirated

 

Was your son able to cough and swallow with all the phlegm or did he need suction?

[Night Owl]

will the london hospital send those photographes they took of my sons face when his notes come to us as we have asked for them will they send them or do they have to keep them

 

If your Solicitor has asked for them then yes they should send copies of the photographs.

[Night Owl]

Hi Glitterlady,

 

ANY INJURY sustained in hospital MUST be documented, IT'S THE LAW. The staff, medical or nursing, have a duty of care to the patient.

 

I'm glad you have evidence. I hope they send copies of theirs.

[Night Owl]

Hi Glitterlady,

 

I think you will have to discuss that with your Solicitor unless someone here can throw some light on it and offer advice.

 

Nobody should hide what has happened.........you have photographic evidence that needs an explanation.

 

I really wish you and your son the very best of luck with this.

I will keep answering your questions if I can.

 

Night Owl x

[Night Owl]

No probs Glitterlady, just doing what I can, where I can, thats what CAG is all about.

Stay strong and fight the fight to the end.

 

Night Owl x

[Night Owl]

Hi Glitterlady,

 

well done on your epic letter to the Solicitor........he will be pleased!

I hope you found it good to write it all down.

 

Sadly patients and carers will find differing care in different Hospitals. I find this so sad because we are all doing the same job so the level of care should be the same.

 

Staff shortages are a big problem and I have had my fair share of making things change over short staffing on my ward. Lots of stamping and shouting but it worked.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nhs/237316-unsafe-working-conditions.html

 

Enjoy your well earned holiday in Turkey............we had a family holiday in Turkey a few years ago and loved it.

 

Good luck and keep this thread, and all of us, informed on your progress.

Just keep asking if there is anything else we can all here on CAG help you with.

 

Night Owl x

[Night Owl]

Hi Glitterlady,

 

welcome back to soggy blighty!!!

Hope you had a good holiday.

 

If an internal incident form was completed then there will be a paper trail of how that incident was delt with. Nursing notes would have to be scrutinised as well as any others in the multidisciplinary team involved. Were they taken from the medical notes and copied for any incident paperwork?.......who knows.

 

I am at a loss to give any further info. because it would now be down to the solicitor to retrieve that info.

 

Best of luck and keep us all informed.

 

Night Owl x

[Night Owl]

Fight on Glitterlady.

 

If you think of anything else just ask. x

[Night Owl]

Need some legal eagals to help out here Glitterlady.

Just looked on their website.

 

Good Luck

Night Owl x

[Night Owl]

Here you go Glitterlady, this is what i was looking at,

 

http://www.irwinmitchell.com/servicesforyou/personalinjury/personal-injury-resources/clinical-negligence-solicitors/Pages/default.aspx

[Night Owl]

Aren't the photos you have proof enough?

The hospital should be held accountable to explain how he sustained them whilst in their care.

It's crazy that they have NO NOTES for when your son was in ITU.

 

Lets hope your solicitor can get something moving for you.

 

Good Luck

Night Owl x

[Night Owl]

Hi Glitterlady,

 

slow progress but it sounds like you have paperwork filtering through.

 

A haematoma is caused when there is damage to blood vessels and the blood leaks into the surrounding tissues causing discolouration of the skin.

Basically what we see is a bruise. This damage to blood vessels can happen through direct insult or injury, a knock or a fall, or severe pinching of the skin.

It can also be seen when the skin is under extreme pressure such as imobility of a limb or part of the body.

 

Has the reason for the pressure sore/haematoma to your son been explained to you fully and satisfactorily?

 

Good luck x

[Night Owl]

Hi Glitterlady,

 

Well done for getting more on this case.

Any luck with PALS and any luck on knowing if they completed an incident report on the injury (Haematoma) sustained?

 

Tetsing for Swineflu is different in different hospitals. At the height of the Swineflu scare we tested everone when they triggered certain criteria - unexplained temperature, productive cough etc....

 

Good luck x

[Night Owl]

Hi Glitterlady,

having a quick look here whilst at work!

Glad to see you are getting some good coments to think about.

Good luck x

[Night Owl]

well i bought this book called HEALTH CARE LAW, and ive found something, the hospital my son was in put a DNAR on him, ONE doctor put this DNAR on him, he told us he was going to take my sons care down in a few hours and if he died he would not bring him back to the way he was at that time?? he never explained why, but in this law book i have the law is A DUTY TO EXPLAIN MISHAPS, do you remember me telling you on here, that he was in prone for 17 hours and they told us he couldnt be turned on his front because he was critical and then when they did turn it went seriously wrong which they wouldnt say what went wrong, and this is where this law book comes in handy because the law says A DUTY TO EXPLAIN MISHAPS, it says One of the major complaints made against the way in which doctors handle medical accidents is that they fail to explain what happened!!!! and this is because they fear that explainations might be seen as ADMISSIONS of LIABILITYand lead to litigations, the medical defense union has advised that"the patient is entitled to a promt sympathetic and above all TRUTHFUL ACCOUNT of what has occured PATIENTS remain in the profesional care even after accidents occur and it has been suggested that general principles indicate that failing to answer questions about their treatment might constitute MALPRACTICE, it also says unless you are stem cell dead you cannot be turned off, and the proof has to be shown that a patients is stem cell dead my son wasnt, he was turned to supine 5 days before he was flown to the other hospital so they could have moved him before that date, nothing new was done for him while in the local hospital, they did start to take his feed of him, and take parts of his care down, they wanted him to die then they wouldnt have had to answer to us, but hes alive and they will answer to us, this book tells you so much i will have these buggers, and i will not be warn down by them im a tough old boot, and they will not break me,

 

This is fighting talk Glitterlady!!!

 

A patient has to be proven Brain Dead through a series of tests, which are repeated, before they deem a patient Brain Dead and unable to sustain their own life. This would happen with the relatives knowledge and should be fully explained.

 

A patient deemed DNAR, or Do Not Actively Resucitate, is critically ill and life threatening, and all attempts to treat them have been unsuccessful. This can be overturned at any point if the patients condition improves. Again this must be fully discussed with the patients relatives and their wishes taken into account and recorded in the patients notes.

 

The hospital must be held accountable for the injuries you have photographic proof of.

It is down to them to prove that this injuries were not sustained through negligence.

 

Good luck x

[Night Owl]

Hi Glitterlady.

 

DNAR status MUST be discussed by the consultant involved in the patients care at that time, with the immediate next of kin and relatives.

The concerns of the next of kins views must be listened to and discussed along with the medical facts.

It MUST BY LAW be documented in the medical notes as it involves the care given by the multidisciplinary team too.

It is considered an end of life stage and should be treated as such with the appropriate end of life care............ie making the patient comfortable and pain free in the months, weeks, days, hours to come.

 

Turning off ventilatory support can only happen following a set of specific brain tests to prove brain death. These tests prove that the patient is unable to maintain independent breathing and brain function to sustain life.

These tests will be repeated and again the results will be documented in the patients notes.

Again the next of kin must give consent for these tests to be carried out and the consequences discussed fully.

 

DNAR status is not something taken lightly.

It can however be reversed if the patients condition improves. Again any changes to the DNAR status must be discussed and documented.

DNAR status can be removed at any time but must be documented.

[Night Owl]

Sounds like appaling lack of communication between you and the medical team looking after your son.

 

Anything a doctor says to a patient or next of kin must be said in a way that is fully understood by all. Medical terminology must be explained and can be simplified so that a lay person can understand the meanings.

The patient and next of kin have every right to ask questions if they don't understand something that is being said to them.

 

I'm a little concerned that you say your son was heavily sedated and ventilated but was still able to

"kept waking up and moving and chewing the vent"

Was your son on some sort of positive airway pressure setting on his ventilator? meaning he had a tube down into his airway to ventilate his lungs under pressure so that he could make an attempt at breathing.

The sedation may have been lighter to encourage your son to make some effort in breathing but with the support of the ventilator adding some pressure to keep the airways from collapsing.

 

The term "taking his care down" puzzles me.

Patients care can't be taken down like some sort of red, amber, green system used to alert threat attacks.

 

Again very appaling communication between the doctors and yourselves.

 

PS Just found this

http://www.resus.org.uk/pages/dnarrstd.htm

 

and

http://www.which.co.uk/campaigns/food-and-health/staying-in-hospital/getting-information-in-hospital/

Edited November 2, 2010 by Night Owl
Links added