NTTF Vs Restons/HFC

[vjohn82]

re CPR32.18 on a n266 - this is interesting- can it be used at any stage?

 

I believe it can but is best used early on so that the parties have a good grasp of the case.

 

secondly in post 41 the n266 does not seem to be asking them to confirm if they have the original documents- merely making an accusation which does not demand a response- is that right?

 

The wording of the Notice to Admit facts document sort of requires a point to be made... we are not necessarily concerned whether they have the originals, only whether the copies currently disclosed meet the requirements of the Acts the Claimant intends to rely upon for judgement.

 

The Claimant either signs the docket to confirm the fact that they are not in possession of a signed agreement and that the Default Notice does not meet the required format OR they do not.

 

If they do then the Judge does not need to discuss the issue at length in the hearing and instead moves to other areas of the claim in dispute.

 

If they do not, and the Judge ends up finding that the fact is correctly stated, then this can affect the costs decision because the claimant should be making an admission in line with the overriding objective.

 

I have only had to use it once... and the other side discontinued 5 days after receiving it. Says it all really.

[diddydicky]

very useful thanks- i have put in AQ's but restons have applied for a SJ (i suspect in order to put a stop on my special directions request for them to produce the orignal in court

 

i think ill fire this off them

[vjohn82]

very useful thanks- i have put in AQ's but restons have applied for a SJ (i suspect in order to put a stop on my special directions request for them to produce the orignal in court

 

i think ill fire this off them

 

I would certainly advise it, especially in light of their SJ application.

[NewToTheFight]

If the OC cannot produce a signed application form or a signed, correctly executed agreement would the OC be in breach of the Data Protection Act?

[vjohn82]

If the OC cannot produce a signed application form or a signed, correctly executed agreement would the OC be in breach of the Data Protection Act?

 

I wouldn't have thought so - if you make this sort of claim the burden of proof is on you to show that you didn't take out such an agreement in the first place which is easier said than done.

[NewToTheFight]

At what point & how will I receive a response to the N266 that I sent to the court? Just thinking as I will have to formulate & enter a defence soon but would be much better able if rsoles had responded

[NewToTheFight]

I have now received my CPR31.14 reply.

It's as clear as mud to me, but am I right in thinking that the response to the 31.14 request must be the document they rely on in court?

 

I have to enter a defence shortly, I would appreciate pointers on which way to go.

Many thanks

[NewToTheFight]

Received a reply to my N266

 

I am of the opinion that I should get the court to order a reply to my N266 but that will cost me £75, am I correct?

I am sure the principals of the case will have a copy of the DN & as solicitors they can work out wether it is faulty or not, should I supply them a copy?

 

Has anybody any advice as to which direction to go with defence? As I still have not a sight of the original agreement (which I am sure does not exist) and with the faulty DN should I go for embarrased defence with an order to produce failing which a request for an SoJ - which I believe will also cost me £75

[vjohn82]

I would be replying with something along the lines of...

 

OK so they haven't got a CCA... game over. The Carey judgement was nothing to do with a creditor taking a debtor to court... they are either trying to mislead the court or you.

[NewToTheFight]

I have a letter that states they have not got a copy of the signed CCA, surely that means they are abusing the process. However I have to submit a defence of some sort soon

[vjohn82]

Don't worry... I'll sort that out tomorrow ;-)

[vjohn82]

So you have no responses to your CPR requests... no documents we can rely on at all?

 

I'm right in saying you acknowledged service yeah?

 

If so, use the defence attached. You will need to look over it and understand it first... this is by no means brilliant... I just don't have the time right now to 100% commit to it but it is good enough for a holding defence.

 

If there was more time I would make sure you request an extension to submitting your defence etc.

 

I might also add you might need to add a little to the credit agreement part... just have a look around and see what others have put.

Initial Defence.doc

[NewToTheFight]

Thanks vj.

I was going to enter something last night but when I went into the system it stated I have 28 days to submit from AoS....

Is this right or is it 28 days from the claim being served?

[Delfi101]

It's 14 days + a further 14 when you acknowledge.

 

D

[NewToTheFight]

Cheers Delfi, time pressure for now

[Delfi101]

Use the time you're allowed sensibly and hit all deadlines exactly.

 

Don't submit anything early and ALWAYS use Special Delivery (because of its guaranteed dated/timed nature - recorded delivery isn't).

 

Don't expect your opponents to be so courteous - my experience is that they'll miss deadlines and ignore lawful requests for information. They'll try to use every technicality 'in the book' to put you off too! .

 

It can get worse than that - be aware that they WILL try to play all sorts of dodgy games. When they start to play games you know you have their attention and have them rattled

 

Just keep it all documented and play the game. It's a slow and careful process from now on. Don't be rushed by your opponents!

 

You are answerable to the court ONLY.

 

Anything you receive from the other side marked 'without prejudice' can't be used as initial evidence.

 

A typical example of this may be a letter marked 'without prejudice save as to costs' - one of my alleged 'creditors' tried this on before backing down fully. They made a reduced offer to settle. What this meant is that if they had won the day they could then produce the document to show that they had tried been 'reasonable'. I'd suggest that if you receive anything like this that you consider why they're making such an offer that isn't allowed to be initially presented at a hearing.

 

I hit them with a 'without prejudice save as to costs and sod off because I'll have you and publicise the lot' letter in response and they dropped the claim. The decision was made by a very senior claims manager of a very big bank. A 'name' in debt collection.

 

Be prepared for a fight but it's going to take ages.

 

Respect (& dislike) the opposition but always obey the court and take the advice given by those on this forum that have a history of helping people out (beware trolls).

 

From now on the word of law is your only true guide.

 

D

 

p.s. Nothing by telephone - everything in writing

Edited April 14, 2010 by Delfi101
to add more advice

[NewToTheFight]

I phoned the court this morning to find out about N266 replies & found I had misread the date for submission of defence. They are now transferring the judgement as it would appear Restons have applied for a charging order. Does anybody have any experience of writing a request for a set aside?

[NewToTheFight]

Bump

[DonkeyB]

Eek... when should the defence have been in? First, give us the date of issue of the claim form etc and let's check back - courts do make mistakes too...

[NewToTheFight]

Defence should have been in on 14th but when I went on the website to submit ( I was trying to get advice as to what kind of defence to submit) I misread & thought it was 28 days from AoS, I now find it is 28 days from DoS.... We live & learn.

The case is now being transferred to Norwich so that a charging order can be applied. I have spoken to them & they expecting my set aside request. Once received it will be redirected to my local court.

Just not sure of how to word the request.

[DonkeyB]

This is a genuine mistake, and as a litigant in person I see no reason why a set aside should not be granted. You have a good prospect of defending the claim. You'll need to do a lot of grovelling. You weren't ill, were you? Ahem...

 

You need an N244, downloadable for the HMCS website - do a search and you'll find it.

 

Get hold of this then get back to us. Have a look here - gives a bit of useful info.

 

Debt Factsheets - How to set aside a Judgment in the County Court

[NewToTheFight]

Form at the ready!

I have been a little peaky lately, esp with the pressure...

 

I had requested more info via CPR31.14 and received a poor response, I also used an N266 and received a vague letter in response. Can I get my set aside to ask for the information originally requested..

[DonkeyB]

Not sure if that would require another N244?

 

Can anyone advise?

 

Effectively, you'd be asking for an 'unless' order. But set aside is the priority.

[NewToTheFight]

I agree set aside is the priority, but I thought I had to show I had a real prospect of winning.. currently I am still embarrased because thay will not show their hand...

[DonkeyB]

You can use this in your grovel - and you really will have to grovel and play the dumb LiP - to explain your misunderstanding...

 

Your CPR request had not been acknowledged, let alone fulfilled. You are therefore severely prejudiced by their failure to comply with CPR.

 

Need an answer from Caggers on whether you can combine two requests in one N244.

 

VJ has won a set-aside before, and he's good on them!

 

Restons are pulling out all the stops on this because they know they have a result at present. As the CCJ is technically in place, they do not now have to respond to CPR, so you need the set aside first then the CPR to be satisfied.