Periodic Tenancy

[ericthehalfabee]

Hi I am having problems with the current address that i am in.

 

I had an AST, that expired and now I have a perodic tenancy. The AST agreement has a clause in it that indicates that I must give 2 months notice. Within the actual agreement it says that that any extension of the tenancy is covered by this clause. So under the AST i had to give 2 months notice and now that it is periodic, i still must give 2 months notice.

 

Is this legally binding?

 

I want to get out becasue the landlady is a nasty piece of work who has refused to do anything to the house as she lives abroad in India. For example, we have been there 3 years now and she has not ever had the gas boiler checked and service apart from the original time that we moved in. I have been told that it is a criminal offence to not perform annual serving. Surely commiting a criminal offence must invalidate any contract between us. And surely this must mean that she does not have valid insurance on the property anymore. I think that becasue she lives in India she thinks she can get away with doing nothing.

 

I have 4 small children and the house is in disrepair. I have asked her to access the issue about having the serving of the boiler done but she has ignored my request. I tried to give her 1 months notice as i thought that this was the case with a periodic tenancy but she has said that i have to give her 2 months notice from the date of the next rent payment which is not until the 22nd March 2009. Which means that i have to keep my children in a house with no proper gas certificate for another 10 weeks and the boiler is old and crappy and makes funny noises. The boiler is dirrectly under my twin girls room. For safty purposes i have moved them into my bedroom with me and installed a carbon monoxide detector.

 

Too be honest i only just found out about this legal obligation to have the gas serviced. I would pay to have this essential work done myself but I am a single dad and I work and every bit of money I earn goes on paying the rent, bills and feeding and clothing my children.

 

Another question.

 

Is my landlady allowed to use the address to apply for credit cards and loans? For some reason i am always recieving new credit cards in the post addressed to her. My landlady actually lives in India and does not live in this country at all. She has not been in the country the whole time that i have been her tenant. She gets me to send all her post to her. One day my oldest boy (8 years old) thought he was being helpful and opened all the post and there was a two credit cards in her name, one with a huge balance transfer of £3000 and another with a £1000 limit, and that is why i know she is getting credit cards from various companies becasue over these years i have seen a number of similar style letters though i have forwarded them on to her. Additionally there was a letter from her mortgage company saying that she is in arrears by 1 month. This has frightened me a lot becaseu my childrens security is at risk.

 

Please can anyone help me with some answers. I dont have the moeny for legal advice. I am scared to loose my deposit becasue that represents so much to me an my family. I have another house i can move into that is both close to work and school but i will loose it if i cant say for certain that i can move in as other people are interested in it. i have been given first refusal but only till Monday.

 

Thanks in advance.

[MrShed]

Section 6 of the HA 1988 specifies that you only need to give 1 months notice in a SPT irrespective of the terms within the preceeding fixed term AST. However, this 1 month notice must end at the end of a rental period.

 

It is a criminal offence not to have gas safety checks performed, and you should report this to your local Environmental Health dept - this doesnt however invalidate the contract.

 

She shouldnt be using your address for any correspondance, but there is no line of recompense for this, so I would ignore it.

 

What address is on the original Tenancy Agreement for her?

[ericthehalfabee]

Hi, Thanks fot your quick response.

 

Her address is

 

Mrs Firstname Surname

XXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXXXX

Mumbai, XXX XXX, India

 

My query regarding the taking out of credit cards and loans at this address is basically that i am worried that this may be illegal and that i may be implicating myself by sending these credit cards and so forth to her in india. surely it can be legal to enter into credit agreements with companies and use an address that you own but dont live at and then have these things sent abroad?

 

The morgage company also have my address as her address.

 

There are lots of things that i am worrying about. I read the contract and also it says that if i pay the rent directly to her, i am responsible about tax to inland revenue. what is that all about? am i going to get in ttouble for not doing this?

[MrShed]

Her legalities surrounding her financial dealings arent your concern, so dont make it so.

 

Ignore the tax element I've never heard anytrhing so ridiculous.

 

Is the address you have specified the one actually listed on the contract?

 

I assume your rented property is in England or Wales?

[ericthehalfabee]

Yes, the address specified in india is actually the one on the contract. the property i rent in england.

 

it says the agreement is between 'her, of xxxxx, mumbai, India

 

and 'me, of previous address, romford,postcode'

[MrShed]

Interesting...

 

no rent is payable to this landlord as it stands.

 

Section 48 of the LTA specifies that you must be given an address in England or Wales, otherwise no rent is legally due to the landlord.

[NewSAHD]

Briefly, for now, as stepped in and am stepping out again very shortly.

 

Deposit - is it protected? Stickies on CAG will help guide, but say nothing to your landlord about this in any way at this stage.

 

Repairs - list them all here, together when you notified landlord and what the response has been.

 

Will then reply later, but in essence would suggest set it up whereby repairs are done by withholding rent. There's a way to do it, without causing problems for yourself, but it's essential it's all properly documented / set up in advance.

 

Gas - musn't muck about with this. Legislation has been in places for many many years too. Would suggest get on to EH and set about doing it by way of deduction from rent, having first properly set it up, as with repairs.

 

Mortgage Company - she's upset you, she's upset us (perhaps) and so we could shortly have some fun with this! Sorry, maybe fun is not the word. Arguably, get the gas and repairs sorted first though, as you are still living there, for now.

 

Credit cards - it seems pretty clear what she is doing, personally, this smacks of fraud. And we all of us pick up on the costs and consequences. Again, I'd be minded to set up the gas safety checks and essential repairs now and at her expense by way of deduction from rent (once that in itself has been set up correctly) and then set out to deal with the credit cards.

 

Really feel for you on this, so give us the list of repairs and will see if can help clear all this up. Sorry, but looking after three young kids myself I fully appreciate that they - and your time too - are all too precious to be m/ucked about the likes of your landlord.

 

CAG has proved very helpful for me, so I am sure that others will be along to help you too, so that you can now get through this as quickly and as painlessly as possible.

 

Good luck too!

Edited March 12, 2010 by NewSAHD
typos

[NewSAHD]

 

Please can anyone help me with some answers. I dont have the moeny for legal advice. I am scared to loose my deposit becasue that represents so much to me an my family. I have another house i can move into that is both close to work and school but i will loose it if i cant say for certain that i can move in as other people are interested in it. i have been given first refusal but only till Monday.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Nearly missed that, I was rushing. Will give some thought to this too, as will others on CAG I'm sure. Serve me right for stepping in when I was rushing though, apologies

 

For whatever it is worth MrShed seems to give well balanced replies elsewhere, so be interested to hear you get on. Plus he/she said nice things about me elsewhere, so it's good to be able to return the compliment...

 

As before, good luck though.

Edited March 12, 2010 by NewSAHD
apology and flattery

[Lula]

As Mr Shed has stated, you do not have an obligation to this landlord as you do not have a valid address in the uk, if you want this other house, then take it, make sure that you read all metres, and photograph so that there can be so comebacks, also, take lots of pictures of the house so that she cannot try and blame you, I would also send any further correspondence as "return to sender, not known at this address".

 

check the Electoral register to make sure that she isnt registered at that address, if she is, inform them that she lives abroad and that she has for X years.

 

Lastly, do not leave her your forwarding address. oh, and do not pay her another penny, I guarantee that the deposit you paid isnt protected, but without a UK address, how are they going to prosecute?

[MrShed]

As Mr Shed has stated, you do not have an obligation to this landlord as you do not have a valid address in the uk,

 

Lets just clarify Lula though.

 

Although there is no valid S48 here, that doesnt mean the tenancy/contract can be ended unilaterally by the tenant.

 

All it means is that rent is not payable for the duration of time when no S48 is in place (although it is back-payable once the notice is issued).

 

however, I do agree that no forwarding address = very little scope for redress for this landlord.

[Lula]

you put it so much more eloquently than I ever could Sheddy

[MrShed]

you put it so much more eloquently than I ever could Sheddy

 

I've been taking my Stephen Fry pills recently

[ericthehalfabee]

Hi everyone,

 

Thank you so much for the responses. I am totally overwhelmed to at last find people helpful and interested enough to give me guidance without a payout..

 

The way that I understand this situation now is that i can leave the property because i cant serve notice on her in the UK as i dont have an address for her or a representitive. Though the new house i can move into is not reaady until the begining of next month.

 

Additionally, while i dont have an address, i do not have to pay rent, though this is a moot point as i have paid rent already and i just want to leave when i can move into the new house. The house is horrible to me now and it worries me staying there. Also, i am worried that if i was to not pay rent that this may cause me problems further along. I cant risk and harm or confrontation coming to me or my children. I am all they have and they are all I have.

 

Also, that she is contrevening the health and safety act with regards to getting the boiler serviced annually. This can lead to prosecution by the HSA but is unlikely.

 

And that the application for credit cards and loans is actually commiting fraud. Again this is a worry because it exposes me to the worry that the police or bailiffs may turn up and terrorise me and my children.

 

And finally that she cant force me to stay any longer than 1 month as is in the housing act with respect to periodic tenancy agreements.

 

I guess that the fact that the gas servicing has not been done it invalidates our agreement as it is a criminal offence. Also this must invalidate her insurance which she must have aand is in the original tenancy agreement. Is this correct.

 

It is a shame that the law is not stricter about these sort of things and hard working people like me get ripped off and risk death over a few pounds that it would cost to get the gas serviced.

 

Thanks for all your comments and advice.

[danielr]

Not wanting to be too pesemistic,

your landlord is overseas.

You have no uk address.

The deposit isn't protected.

Your landlady feels no need to follow the law with regards getting gas safety inspections done, nor protecting tour deposit.

She's imposing her own terms and trying to enforce them even though she can't (2 months notice)

she's applying for credit cards. Giving a uk resident address of a property that you're living at.

 

What makes you think that you'll get the deposit returned at all?

 

In my most pesemistic mood I can see one of the following two things happening:

1 you tell her that there is no requirement to five two months notice. And she keeps your deposit saying it's in leiu of rent since you didn't give enough notice.

2 you play nice and give her the two months notice and she keeps the deposit anyway.

 

In either of these cases you loose the deposit, a d with no uk address you can't take any legal action at all.

 

In this case. I don't know what's best to do. Possibly give one months notice. Don't pay the last months rent. Then leave letting the landlord keep the deposit in leiu of that rent that you didn't pay?

[NewSAHD]

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for the responses. I am totally overwhelmed to at last find people helpful and interested enough to give me guidance without a payout..

 

As was I when I first came here a few months back. Really can prove to be a very helpful, friendly place. Although, perplexingly, some posters appear to do want they can not to help, but you will tend to work them out soon enough .

 

I guess that the fact that the gas servicing has not been done it invalidates our agreement as it is a criminal offence.

 

No, sorry, by all accounts your AST (periodic or otherwise) remains in place.

 

Two things, perhaps, need to happen here in parallel - firstly, get out as soon as can.

 

Secondly, you may not be able to get out that quickly and you still need "safe" accommodation. So, as well as trying to get away, set it up so that the gas safety testing, servicing and any other essential repairs are undertaken by way of deduction of rent.

 

You have to be careful as to how you approach this, but I am sure we would help set this out for you.

 

Also, how do you communicate with the landlord? Does she have family/friends in the UK? How is your rent paid and to whom/where?

 

I would never advocate running away, or not meeting your own responsibilities (rent, for starters), but on this occasion you may little choice.

 

And so I would be happy to assist in whatever way I can, as will others.

[NewSAHD]

Not wanting to be too pesemistic,

 

Seems to be a realistic assessment .

 

ericthehalfabee shouldn't expect any sensible, reasoned communications with the landlord either.

 

It's not going to play out very well, so an exit with minimum fuss is what's needed?

 

And if he can't get away quickly, make damn sure the place is safe and to do so at the landlord's expense?

[MrShed]

I guess that the fact that the gas servicing has not been done it invalidates our agreement as it is a criminal offence. Also this must invalidate her insurance which she must have aand is in the original tenancy agreement. Is this correct.

As specified above, no it doesnt.

 

Simple answer to my mind here.

 

Inform the landlord now that you are moving out on X date.

 

Dont pay any more rent from now.

 

Move out on X date.

 

Dont give a forwarding address.

 

No further contact.

 

Job done.

[NewSAHD]

MrShed, pretty much covers it.

 

The only other issue can see is:

 

"I have another house i can move into that is both close to work and school but i will loose it if i cant say for certain that i can move in as other people are interested in it. i have been given first refusal but only till Monday."

This needs to be sorted, otherwise ericthehalfabee could end up in limbo, or "intentionally homeless", or whatever the phrase is nowadays.

 

Plus, setting out to the landlord now and in writing that is also intending to deduct gas safety/servicing/essential repairs from rent leaves a paper trail for later should landlord ever try to recover rent later.

 

Some landlord's will pursue as point of principle, so, personally, I see no harm in setting out a defence now.

Edited March 12, 2010 by NewSAHD

[MrShed]

Well its simple - just commit.

 

The landlord cannot enforce this tenancy on the OP anyway realistically, with:

 

- No valid Section 48

- No valid Gas Safety Cert

- Invalid termination notice in the tenancy

- No forwarding address

[NewSAHD]

Agreed to a degree.

 

The four items can be corrected though and some landlords may pursue, regardless of cost.

 

OP requires some peace of mind, so a "reasonable" letter to the landlord setting out the complaints/deduction of costs from rent may, perhaps, more fully close this dreadful state of affairs off - not antagonistic and then disappear quietly to a better property/landlord elsewhere.

 

Especially if all written with the prospect of it being read by lawyers/a Court at some later stage.

Edited March 12, 2010 by NewSAHD