The Bank Charges decision - where to now

[lookinforinfo]

While it aappears that we have to accept that the penal rate of bank charges have now become one of the banks core values, it was not always the case.

 

Is there any mileage therefore in going for reclamation of one's charges only for the ones incurred five or six years ago when maybe charges could not be described as a core value. And would the banks want to challenge that

approach when they know they were damn lucky to win last time?

[rdm2006]

It was an "Error" on their part BF

[BankFodder]

While it aappears that we have to accept that the penal rate of bank charges have now become one of the banks core values, it was not always the case.

 

Is there any mileage therefore in going for reclamation of one's charges only for the ones incurred five or six years ago when maybe charges could not be described as a core value. And would the banks want to challenge that

approach when they know they were damn lucky to win last time?

'fraid not.

[BankFodder]

It was an "Error" on their part BF

start a thread then and go through it

[gaz2006]

I really need examples of where the treatment is unfair I already have a Yorkshire claim hearing soon and know may be bale to use their lies in defence before but am struggling to see what specific guidelines I need to incorporate as evidence Regards Gaz

[gaz2006]

If you have a YB cliam then you need to contact us directly.

Please email me at our admin address - admin@

 

include a landline number.

Ta

 

you already have details etc caro knows too gaz

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/yorkshire-bank-clydesdale-bank/242730-help-order-court-yorkshire.html

Edited February 12, 2010 by gaz2006
typo

[gaz2006]

I have hearing March to listen to my request for summary judgement to be struck out I used what you and Caro and put in application hence hearing but maybe need some meat to put on the bones of my reasoning Regards Gaz

ps your box full

[TBeckett100]

would this be counted as unfair treatment.

 

Lloyds back in 1999 and 2000 when you used to go over your limit used to send your account to collections where it would take 2 weeks to reach them. During that period the branch was unable to help and as collections hadnt received the account, they were unable to help either. for those 2 weeks, nobody was in control.

 

During that period i would get paid, go back to normal on the account and the account would automatically start the two week trip back to branch whereby i would go OD again and start the process.

 

I would say that was unfair?

[supasta1]

I have three letters from Natwest offering us full payment of our bank charges on a without prejudice offer, it also explains what the charges are to cover but i cannot remember exactly what reasons they give. We received no payment from them and then they put our claim on hold along with all the others when the OFT got involved. as they had already offered us a settlement figure should they not have honoured them and also will these letters help us in our court battle against them now?? That part of our claim is currently on hold and we have had no update since the supreme court decision. Your thoughts please bankfodder and co.?

[citizenB]

I have three letters from Natwest offering us full payment of our bank charges on a without prejudice offer, it also explains what the charges are to cover but i cannot remember exactly what reasons they give. We received no payment from them and then they put our claim on hold along with all the others when the OFT got involved. as they had already offered us a settlement figure should they not have honoured them and also will these letters help us in our court battle against them now?? That part of our claim is currently on hold and we have had no update since the supreme court decision. Your thoughts please bankfodder and co.?

 

 

Have flagged your post for the attenion and comments of the site team. If they had made an offer to settle then I think they have behaved without integrity to renege on that offer.

[supasta1]

Thanks CitizenB, I will have a look for the letters and try and scan them in here for all to have a look at. The amounts i asked them for at the time are less than what i have now put in as a counterclaim in my ongoing saga with them as i did not know that i could include interest back then but they still made an offer all the same and did not honour it.

[supasta1]

I have not got a scanner handy so i will type the letter, all three are word for word identical apart from account numbers and amounts:

 

Dear Supa,

 

Thank you for your letter of ***** I am sorry that you have concerns regarding the charges that have been applied to your account.

 

We explain all of our terms and conditions including our fees and charges at account opening and they form the basis of your agreement with us. Full details are available at any time on our website and in our branches, and updates are sent out regularly to our customers. For your conveniance, I am enclosing our current terms and conditions (including fees and charges) that apply to your account.

 

Natwest has for a number of years provided many every day banking services to customers free of charge when accounts are in credit or within a previously agreed overdraft limit. These services include access to our branch network, cheques, direct debits, standing orders, UK debit card transactions and UK ATM withdrawals. It is also important to us that our customers have every opportunity to arrange suitable borrowing facilities with us should they require extra funds whether through our branches, online or via our UK based call centres.

 

Whilst many of our services are provided without a corresponding charge, we do make charges when customers, by their actions, request an increase to or creation of an overdraft in excess of their previously agreed limit. By reviewing such requests we provide an additional service to customers, in many instances allowing items to be paid either by creating or increasing an overdraft. These charges can be avoided entirely by arranging suitable borrowing facilities in advance.

 

For these reasons, we do not agree with the basis of your complaint. We believe that the charges we levy are for providing services and that they are not penalties or charges for default. Furthermore we believe that these charges are fair, reasonable and transparent.

 

However, having reviewed your case and as a gesture of goodwill and without admission of liability or error, in this instance we are prepared to offer the amount of £****.** paid direct to your account.

 

To accept this offer in full and final settlement of your complaint please let me know by completeing the attached form and returning it to us in the reply paid envelope provided. If you would like to discuss this offer please contact the number quoted above.

 

Any charges that properly accrue in the future will be applied to your account in line with our published tariff and in accordance with your agreement with the bank. Should you be unwilling to accept any such charges, then we may need to consider if we are prepared to continue to provide you with existing banking facilities. Instead we may offer you a simple account that does not offer borrowing facilities or other services that can result in charges.

 

I trust this will resolve your complaint, however for the sake of completeness i am enclosing a leaflet explaining the options available to you should you wish to take matters further.

 

Financial services authority guidelines state that we can regard your complaint as closed if we do not hear from you within eight weeks of this letter. If you do need to take your complaint forward, please let me know within this time.

 

I look forward to hearing from you

 

Yours sincerely

 

Natwest

 

So any thoughts on the letters and if they will help me with my ongoing case??

[citizenB]

I have three letters from Natwest offering us full payment of our bank charges on a without prejudice offer, it also explains what the charges are to cover but i cannot remember exactly what reasons they give. We received no payment from them and then they put our claim on hold along with all the others when the OFT got involved. as they had already offered us a settlement figure should they not have honoured them and also will these letters help us in our court battle against them now?? That part of our claim is currently on hold and we have had no update since the supreme court decision. Your thoughts please bankfodder and co.?

 

Supa, did you accept this offer by returning to them the acceptance form ?

 

Can you please give me a link to your own thread on this and I will move these posts over and just leave a summary here for others to follow.

[gandolfi]

Hi Everyone

 

I didn't know if this is the best place to ask this question...I posted it on my own thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/business-claims-bank-charges/81525-gandolfi-natwest-14.html but haven't had any responses yet.

 

I've just looked back over my own defence/counterclaim and noticed the following clause that I included in my argument:

 

In the event that the court finds that the charges are not a penalty they are unreasonable within the meaning of section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

Can anyone shed any light on this already existing alternative to the penalty argument within my claim...? Does this still apply? What does it mean exactly?

 

Many thanks,

Gandolfi

Edited February 20, 2010 by gandolfi
style/typeface

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/oft-test-case-updates/248268-sheriff-puts-bank-scotland.html

[caro]

I have not got a scanner handy so i will type the letter, all three are word for word identical apart from account numbers and amounts:

 

Dear Supa,

 

Thank you for your letter of ***** I am sorry that you have concerns regarding the charges that have been applied to your account.

 

We explain all of our terms and conditions including our fees and charges at account opening and they form the basis of your agreement with us. Full details are available at any time on our website and in our branches, and updates are sent out regularly to our customers. For your conveniance, I am enclosing our current terms and conditions (including fees and charges) that apply to your account.

 

Natwest has for a number of years provided many every day banking services to customers free of charge when accounts are in credit or within a previously agreed overdraft limit. These services include access to our branch network, cheques, direct debits, standing orders, UK debit card transactions and UK ATM withdrawals. It is also important to us that our customers have every opportunity to arrange suitable borrowing facilities with us should they require extra funds whether through our branches, online or via our UK based call centres.

 

Whilst many of our services are provided without a corresponding charge, we do make charges when customers, by their actions, request an increase to or creation of an overdraft in excess of their previously agreed limit. By reviewing such requests we provide an additional service to customers, in many instances allowing items to be paid either by creating or increasing an overdraft. These charges can be avoided entirely by arranging suitable borrowing facilities in advance.

 

For these reasons, we do not agree with the basis of your complaint. We believe that the charges we levy are for providing services and that they are not penalties or charges for default. Furthermore we believe that these charges are fair, reasonable and transparent.

 

However, having reviewed your case and as a gesture of goodwill and without admission of liability or error, in this instance we are prepared to offer the amount of £****.** paid direct to your account.

 

To accept this offer in full and final settlement of your complaint please let me know by completeing the attached form and returning it to us in the reply paid envelope provided. If you would like to discuss this offer please contact the number quoted above.

 

Any charges that properly accrue in the future will be applied to your account in line with our published tariff and in accordance with your agreement with the bank. Should you be unwilling to accept any such charges, then we may need to consider if we are prepared to continue to provide you with existing banking facilities. Instead we may offer you a simple account that does not offer borrowing facilities or other services that can result in charges.

 

I trust this will resolve your complaint, however for the sake of completeness i am enclosing a leaflet explaining the options available to you should you wish to take matters further.

 

Financial services authority guidelines state that we can regard your complaint as closed if we do not hear from you within eight weeks of this letter. If you do need to take your complaint forward, please let me know within this time.

 

I look forward to hearing from you

 

Yours sincerely

 

Natwest

 

So any thoughts on the letters and if they will help me with my ongoing case??

 

Was this a claim that you made? If so what stage were you at? What did your letter say that prompted them to pay this? A link to the thread on this would be useful if you have one. If not it would help if you started one to explain how this came about.

[rdm2006]

Hi Caro See post 64 that explains it

[caro]

Hi Caro See post 64 that explains it

 

Doh! Thanks RDM. I thought that these were new letters.

 

Nice to see you about again.

[rdm2006]

oh i never stopped - just been busy --- same crap another reason lol

[phoenix11]

Ahah - found this and very helpful it is too - thank you BH.

[rdm2006]

Interesting schedule 2 of the UTCCR is a list of things that are already classed as unfair

 

Item D. permitting the seller or supplier to retain sums paid by the consumer where the latter decides not to conclude or perform the contract, without providing for the consumer to receive compensation of an equivalent amount from the seller or supplier where the latter is the party cancelling the contract;

 

If it is already considered to be unfair to end a contract in this way then surely it must be unfair to operate it in this way

[Professor Lone Ranger]

If I have incomplete records, what can I ask my bank to provide? How long are the records kept, and, in these days of E-mail, and, on line banking, providing full access to our bank records, should not be a problem should it? My complaints stretch over many years, and, revolve around automatic charges, for letters, notifying me of overdrawn accounts, lasting less than a day, in some cases, that came about, as a result of entering debits, on the account, before a credit on the same day. It is clear to me that the bank hopes that I will die or go away before they have to address the matter. Them BO has accepted the complaint for action. Presumably if I am not satisfied with the outcome I still have the option of resorting to law?

[angel_1]

hiya caro

 

have signed the petition link maybe we could get the site to show this if at all possible on a link on first entering the site

 

we need all our members and beyond to sign this, it will show a very united front that this really needs to be addressed

 

just my mere humble thoughts mind you after the halifax petition that a lot of us have had replies from our dear government, nothing now surprises me any more, will it all be another waste of our efforts

 

we have to make some noice everyone:cool:

 

okay sorry for my little rant, off to the kitchen to do the dinner8-)

 

laters keep positive all angel x

[Professor Lone Ranger]

What right do I have to access the banks records of our account? We have been constantly on the move so have not kept banking records. I simply complained from time to time to keep the bank on its toes but it was always in control of what if anything it refunded which I had to accept. If I had the records I am sure I could show that a large amount has been charged that should not have been.

[Bigdebtor]

PLR

 

Just use the SAR templates here and/or on Money Saving Expert - which spell out what you should ask for. Basically they should give you ALL the info they have on you - back to year dot - if held in a "relevant filing system" - buit a MINIMUM is all info for last 6 years.

 

Hope this helps

 

BD