HBOS Claimform - old Halifax Credit Card debt **Discontinued**

[HP Mum]

I wish to take on Halifax about a credit card debt and a personal loan and need some helpful advice please...

 

re: the credit card - It was taken out in early 03. I have nearly all my statements - I am still searching my old files for the first 8-9months. I can't find the Agreement at the moment but am sure it will crop up in the next few days.

 

re; the loan - I originally took a loan in mid 02 but then needed a bigger one and they cancelled the first one and started a new one in mid 03. I have the orig docs for the 02 loan but am still searching for the 03 loan docs. I have repaid nearly 3/4 of the loan but am unable to find the £s to repay the remaining 1/4.

 

Put simply, my circumstances changed a few years ago. By the end of last year I just could not afford the high monthly payments anymore to either the cc or the loan. I wrote and explained my situation to both the credit card & loan sections of Halifax. I had many letters including the standard threatening replies most people seem to get, then swiftly got passed on to dcas.

credit card - to Blair Oliver

Loan - to Albion, now Moorcroft.

 

Then I was inundated with harassing phonecalls.

 

I composed letters to the dca's offering small amounts monthly. They all agreed and I have spent a few months this year breathing again. But I know this is not going to last....

 

And now I just discovered this site.... And I am wondering if these debts are enforceable anyway.

 

So can someone please tell me how I work out if my Credit Card Agreement (once found) is enforceable ?

And if there is a chance it is not, then what I have to do ? Do I have to write asking for a true copy of the cca (as per the template on this site) ?

 

And the same with my loan ? How do I work out if this is enforceable ?

 

I'm really worried that they might try to get charging orders against my home now.

 

Please help....

[dx100uk]

ok well dont worry too much about the dca's

i'm wondering if the dca's are just collecting or have brought the debts?

 

you could certainly fire off cca's to the dca's, and if they comeback unenforceable, that might well lead to a very small F&F if so, but it does not make the debt go away.

 

now on the front of the loan that got reloaned , i'd check you did have PPI on it, infact i'd check you don't have PPI on the card too!

 

have you also thought about reclaiming any charges you might have gotten?

 

the best way to findout if any CCA is correct is to start a thread in the namedforum of your Co. and post up a scan of the doc after removing all pers details first ofcourse!

 

dx

[HP Mum]

why shouldnt I worry about the dcas ?

 

The cc is with BOS. I understand they are inhouse dca for Halifax, so I doubt that has been sold.

The loan went to Albion and is now with Moorcroft Pre-court division. Not sure about whether sold or if they are acting for Halifax ?

 

I thought I had started a thread in the named company section ?

 

So should I send the cca to Halifax or to each dca ?

[dx100uk]

yep you are in the halifax forum..doh..sorry.

 

what i mean about the dca's is don't let their threats worry you.

 

i would cca the dca's myself

 

dx

[HP Mum]

HELP !

I have just received a Claim Form from Halifax, dated 6/11 and I need to reply to it.

 

I have had my head in the sand a bit this year and whilst I have been meaning to ask advice on this site about if my Halifax CCA is enforceable and can fight the debt (to a degree), somehow the days turned into weeks and then months and I did nothing. Now I am forced to do it. And I would really, really appreciate some help in:

a) how to complete my reply to the Claim Form

b) how to question if my CCA is unenforceable

 

Basically I need some help. Do I file an admission, admission and defence or just a defence ? I have had no correspondence with them (BOS) since the start of the year when I said my circumstances had changed and I said I could only afford small amount/month, which I did til July. I stopped even paying this amount in August.

As they have now sent a claim form, can I still ask them to prove this card debt is enforceable.

 

They have said the start date of my CCA is Jan 2002, I need to check this as I have only found papers going back to 2004.

 

PLEASE HELP. Am feeling very over-whelmed by this now.

[HP Mum]

HI,

Am hoping that someone is going to pick up on my thread and advise...

Now Halifax has sent out the legal Claim papers to me, I just need to know if I can now start asking for copies of CCA ???? Or have I left it too late ?

I think Jan 02 card was issued to me. From what I have read, I understand that most Agreements around this date are unenforceable.

Anyone any good advice.

I need to fight this.

[toymaker1]

Unfortunately, it is not clear what your exact situation is, therefore it is difficult to post advice. Could you explain exactly what is your situation regarding Halifax? What happened? It is not clear.

Post some details quickly.

[postggj]

you have 14 days to acknowledge the claim so we will use that

 

you have till the 20/11 to do this so no panic

 

is it mcol so you can do it on the internet

 

a password will be on the claim form

 

answer those questions then we will move up a gear

 

can you post the pertic of claim

 

going to your thread now toymaker

[militantconsumer]

postggj is right - you need to complete the Acknowledgement of Service (AOS). You may be able to do this online if it is an "MCOL" or Moneyclaim Online claim form.

 

If you fail to complete the AOS within 14 days then you will lose the cause automatically "judgment in default".

[toymaker1]

If you want to fight this, you need to urgently post more information about exactly what happened between you and Halifax. No one can make any useful suggestions unless they know what your exact situation is.

[HP Mum]

Halifax have made a claim against me, dated 6 Nov.

I opened a credit card account with them many years ago. I have found statements dating back to Jan 2004; Halifax say the account was opened in Jan 2002.

 

I have not used the card since June 2005, just been paying interest and charges ever since. Never really making headway to clear the balance due to their high interest and charges

 

I received several £25 charges for late payment or going over the limit until Sept 06, when they reduced any charges to £12.

 

At end 07 finances became very tight and I was unable to continue making regular high payments.

 

In Jan 08 I was £350 below my credit limit (which H had constantly increased over the years without referral to me). By Oct 08 H added charges and interest of £1500, pushing me obviously well over my limit.

 

In Oct 08 I wrote a detailed letter to Halifax (BOS) explaining my circumstances, giving a financial statement and offering a token amount monthly. I disputed the balance.

 

I continued making token payments monthly until Aug 09, when again I stopped. I have paid nothing since. BOS and H sent threatening letters. I meant to deal with them; send them template letters from here asking for the original copy of the CCA to see if they could enforce this debt anyway but was so busy in the last 3 months that I kept putting it off. Now H has sent legal papers and I obviously have to deal with it.

 

Obviously I have to acknowledge the claim. But the question is: Can I now reply in these docs that I am requesting all the necessary info from H to see if they can enforce this debt ?

Is this a SAR ?

I am a little at sea over this and do not want charging orders or a Judgment against me for this.

Please help.

Thank you.

[postggj]

who started the claim

 

was it the bank or a solicitor

[HP Mum]

The form they have sent is a N1CPC form.

It does allow me to respond online.

But I do not know how to respond. ie: can I now start my action against them in my response to see if this card debt is enforceable anyway ??

 

The Claimant is Bank of Scotland. Docs need to be sent to a Coll & Recoveries address. Court is Bulk Centre in Northants.

[toymaker1]

There is a box on the claim form called "Particulars of Claim"

Can you post exactly what it says?

That would be helpful to anyone trying to advise you.

[postggj]

ok

 

send this by recorded/special delievery to bank of scotland recoveries

 

please confirm no solicitor is dealing with this from bank of scotland

does the claim for have a password on it as its from northampton

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the default notice*

 

3 the termination notice*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

[HP Mum]

"The Claimant's claim is for £x presently due pursuant to a credit agreement entered into by the parties, full particulars of which have been supplied hitherto.

By an agreement dated xx/01/02 the Defendant has an account number xxxxxxxxxxx with the claimant. The Defendant has failed or delayed to adhere to the terms of the Default Notice issued by the Claimant under the terms of the CCA 1974. The balance due as at 0// on said account is £x "

 

The balance is for more than £5000

[postggj]

just the usual

 

when you acknowledge service on line with the password.

 

YOU ARE DEFENDING ALL THE CLAIM

[HP Mum]

I can not see any solicitors name on the Claim Form.

There is a password on the front page.

They have not provided the default notice with the claim. Nor the original agreement.

What is a CPR 31 ?

 

I have to feed my kids. Will be back here in an hour or so !!

[postggj]

Just Send The Cpr Request To Recoveries By Recorded Delievery

 

If They Dont Suply The Info Requested, You Can Do A Holding Defence

 

Most Default Notice Are Crap So As Soon As You Get The Info, Let Me Know

[toymaker1]

 

Log into the online court service. You will be asked to enter the Claim Number and the password.

Once you have logged in, the simplest thing to do might be to go to the "Defence and Counterclaim" section.

Dispute the full amount, for the following reason, which you enter into box 3 "Defence".

 

I dispute the full amount claimed by the claimant and I do not recognise the Claimant's Claim in any way for the following reasons.

The Claimant states that the claim relates to a credit agreement entered into by the parties, but no copy of the contract or documents alleged to constitute the agreement has been attached or served with the particulars of claim, therefore I have no knowledge of the agreement mentioned by the claimant in the particulars of claim. This is in breach of the requirements of Practice Direction 16 section 7.3. "Where a claim is based upon a written agreement a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached or served with the particulars of claim".

 

Additionally, by not attaching or serving a copy of the alleged agreement the claimant has failed to provide me with sufficient information to deal with the claim. This is in breach of Practice Direction - Protocols section 3.1(a) "not having provided sufficient information to the defendant".

 

 

 

 

At least that gives you something to work on.

[militantconsumer]

I agree with sending postggj's letter as this is a way of obtaining paperwork from the other side to help you fight the claim.

 

And toymaker1 is suggesting you cover both the 'acknowledgement of service' and the 'defence' in one go. I think I am right in saying that this is a kind of 'embarrassed defence' - i.e. you are saying you defend but you are 'embarrassed' not to have all the information you need.

 

My advice would be don't panic, and have a read through this really useful introduction to what to do when a creditor is taking you to court:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html

 

If you keep on top of this then the chances are that a lot of the 'debt' will actually be written off due to it being made up of these penalty charges. And, a it says in the above thread:

"a heck of a lot of people who go to court actually win! And even if you lose, the Judge WILL NOT order you to pay more than you can affordJ And HE/SHE WILL NOT order you to go to jail, or punish you in any way…"

[HP Mum]

Thank you all, so far.

I will digest everything and try to compose draft letter in the morning. And will post here for absolute clarification before posting / filing on-line.

 

hello again,

I have read lots of threads and am a bit bleary-eyed now.

 

I have drafted this letter. Does it sound ok ?

 

Bank of Scotland

Collections & Recoveries

ADMAIL 868

Newcastle Upon Tyne

NE99 3BS

 

date xx

Dear Sir,

 

Re: Bank of Scotland v XX Case No: xxxxx

CPR 31.14 Request

 

 

 

On xxxx09 I received the Claim Form in this case, issued by you out of the xx County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest your entire claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1. The agreement.

You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract, or documents constituting the agreement, should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2. The default notice

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully,

xx

On another thread I also saw a letter about a CPR 18 - Request for Information. Is the CPR 31.14 enough ? Or should I also send a CPR 18 ?

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

Dear XXX

 

CPR 18 - REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

h. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

 

Yours sincerely,

XXXX

[toymaker1]

Looks excellent to me

Well done!

That should keep them busy.

[HP Mum]

Thanks for the support.

I have made a few tweeks and am about to go to PO to special or register post them.

 

Will go on-line today to acknowledge service too.

 

Just to be clear on this though:

First I acknowledge their service;

Then still on-line in the Defence section I advise I have sent Claimant request for 2 CPR docs (18 & 31.14) and that I have to (need to) wait the given 14 days before I can begin to file my defence. Is this correct ?

 

If after 14 days I have received nothing from the Claimant, then what do I do ?

Am I able to write to the Court asking to have it thrown out as they have not given me any information to defend myself ?

 

Now, if they do provide all the relevent info of the CPR 18 & 31.14 requests - what is my next plan of action ?

 

Just so I am prepared !!

Thank you in advance...

[toymaker1]

 

I think postggj is better able to give you detailed advice about the correct procedures and time limits etc.

The only advice I would give is to take things one step at a time.

 

Wait and see what Halifax come up with. My experience of them is that they will not have the original agreement. - they often provide a copy of your application form (i.e. not the executed agreement). And whatever they provide is often too small text to read (which is not allowed by requirements of CCA or CCA Regulations).

 

So I suggest you wait and see. Also, once you have logged in and filed an acknowledgement, you are in the system. All you need to do is read it all very carefully and it tells you what to do next. It is not at all like the old days pre-internet - where you had to fulfill all the requirements yourself without any help.