Problem with Used Car i bought less than 3 months ago

[Gary Spedding]

Hello,

 

I am new to the site first of all i found this page by doing a quick google search i am hopefull to get some good sound advice!.

 

Right now onto the problem:

 

I bought a car from a Garage on the 03/09/2009

 

Its a 2000 W reg peugot 206 1.9 deisel engine mot may 2010 taxed untill end of this month, it appeared on inspection at the garage to be in okay condition for a car nearing 10 years of age! i went to the garage with my older brother who used to be a mechanic for the army so he could have a look at it before i bought it, he said it seemed okay also so i went ahead with the purchase. The car cost 1200£ it was on sale for 1500 but i offered a lower price and got a good deal by purchasing it same day! or so i thought,

 

3 weeks after purchasing the car i began to have various little niggly problems such as engine oil temperature kept going into the red for a few seconds and then back down into the 90 degree zone this was because the engine needed oil in it so i topped this up myself. A week after that my exhaust began rattling as if loose turned out it was just hitting my tow bar however that is still a fault with the car so i phoned up the garage and asked if they could fix these small problems and they refused saying they did not give me a warranty for "fixing the vehicle if something went wrong".

 

I decided to just leave it at that as the exhaust wasnt loose it was just rattling against the tow bar due to a bung missing which usually prevents exhaust moving too much.

 

However this wasnt the end of my troubles 2 weeks after that my front breaks totally went, needed brand new disks and pages fitted and 4 new tyres, it was noticed by our family mechanic who has looked after our cars for us for many years that all my tyres were showing the wire nearly so i got new tyres, new disks new pads, anti freeze put in engine and engine oil flushed and redone coming to a smallish cost of 139 pounds which i have paid this was due to the previous knowledge the garage i bought the car from refused to sort the small problems out let alone this rather large problem.

 

I thought that was the end of my troubles car safe back on the road im happy untill today!

 

My clutch has completely gone and when i say gone i mean it went big style i nearly went through the windscreen and i only just managed to get it back off the motor way to call the AA to tow me to a local garage who have told me a new clutch is needed etc comming to a predicted cost of 350 pounds......

 

I was also told by this garage that if i bought the car less than 3 months ago i am entitled to my money back on some kind of trading standards warranty by law or to have the garage i bought it from pay for repairs unless they agree to give me my money back.....

 

So i basically need advice on what to do in this situation, i need a car as i use it to travel to college daily...... But i cant keep paying for these things to happen im a student and im out of money i cant even afford to buy a new clutch for the damn thing....

 

Now i have thought of phoning the garage i bought it from and threatening them with trading standards as it would seem they sold me an unsafe car for so many faults and serious faults at that with the brakes and clutch etc i need advice on what best to do and please bare in mind my car is in a garage that if i dont pay them to repair my car can charge me for storage untill i get my car towed somewhere else.....

 

Please help and give advice thank you!

 

Sorry if it seems i have like given my life story here or something just wanted all details to be on so i can get advice thanks!

[Conniff]

Hi Gary. How many miles have you done since you have owned it?

 

I am think firstly they must have sold you a car in a dangerous condition and not fit for purpose because of the tyres. The tyres should have had a minimum tread depth of 1.6mm but you say the wire is showing. I can't see that you could have covered enough mileage in 2 months of ownership to go from 1.6mm to showing the wire.

 

As the regulation stand at the moment, it you take it back to the dealer you bought it from with a complaint, it is up to him during the first 6 months to show there was not problem with the car. After 6 months, it is up to the buyer to show there was a fault.

 

Your first recourse should be to the dealer who sold it to you and it should have been taken back to him for repairs. As you were told it was not covered by a warranty, (which means absolutely nothing), and not knowing your consumer rights, you paid for tyres and other repairs.

 

Can you go to where you had this work done and get those tyres and brake parts back, this will be of great assistance should you have any problems later.

 

I trust you have proper company headed receipts for the work carried out and if not, then go back and get them.

 

The telephone is never a recommended method of contact, but you can first off, give them a ring and tell them the car is in need of repair and that they are liable for those repairs. If you get an unfavourable response, then you must write using recorded delivery mail tell him that under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (implied terms about quality or fitness), he is obliged to fix them at his expense.

 

“(2) Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality.

(2A) For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances.

(2B) For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—

(a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,

(b) appearance and finish,

© freedom from minor defects,

(d) safety, and

(e) durability.

 

I don't want to make my response too big so will stop here.

 

P.S. If you had been stopped for any reason, you would have been done for the tyres as it is the drivers responsibility to ensure they are legal.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Conniff

[Gary Spedding]

Hi and thank you for your response!

 

I bought the car at 97000 miles and its on 100500 miles now thats 3500 miles approx as i have travelled down to Bath and back in the vehicle.

 

My Grandfather and our family mechanic both agreed that the car was in an unfit state when i had them fix the car when the tyres and brakes needed replacing, We still have the original tyres and wheels and breaks, My grandfather put some peugot alloys on the car from one of our stock piles so we didnt actually pay for new wheels/tyres.

 

However i do have the reciepts for the parts; Brake disks and pads......

 

I also had to have the tracking done on the front two wheels.

 

Any more information you want from me just ask thank you ever so much for your response!

[Conniff]

I think you should take it into a reputable testing station and get an MoT done, even though it is not yet due, to show up any other failings with the car ie corrosion and wear in stearing etc.

 

You will then be in a good position to ask for your money back if it should fail on a lot of things.

[Gary Spedding]

I think you should take it into a reputable testing station and get an MoT done, even though it is not yet due, to show up any other failings with the car ie corrosion and wear in stearing etc.

 

You will then be in a good position to ask for your money back if it should fail on a lot of things.

 

 

At present i have 15 pounds in my bank account i am currently sitting here panicking on how i can afford this new clutch that has already started getting fitted which is yet another damned problem....

 

The Garage it got taken to when the AA towed me decided they would start work on it before they got the okay from me that i could afford to pay their price of 348 pounds for a new clutch......

 

So now i suppose im obliged to pay them because theyve already taken my old clutch out and are putting the new one in tomorow morning.

 

Basically i cant afford to put it through an mot untill its time for its mot if you understand me.....

 

If i speak to the Garage i purchased the car from in the morning and get them to agree to pay for the clutch does this mean i can get the garage that is currently doing the clutch for me to send them a bill or something?

 

Im in a frantic situation and its all because of my lacking of car knowledge and ignorance, my Grandfather is a Car enthusiast and knows how to repair peugots which is why i always buy peugot cars but he is too old to work on them now so he is angry about this situation and getting stressed i myself am crapping myself incase the garage bill me and i cant pay them tomorow.

 

Best course of action at this time is to contact the garage that sold me it right?

[Conniff]

I understand fully, unfortunately if you want all your money back, time isn't on your side.

 

Don't blame yourself for this, the dealer you bought it from knew or should have known the state of the car and they have no excuse. You have to trust some people some times.

 

Now the clutch is being replaced, you sort of lose the incentive to take it back and ask for a refund mainly because they would also have been responsible for collecting it.

 

Take identity documents and your student card to the garage and see if you can come to some arrangement, you never know. They can, of course, keep the car until it is paid for.

 

Mechanics tend to look around while they are underneath, so ask as well if they noticed anything not right.

 

I hope you can find a way around this financially.

 

You will be able to make a claim against the selling dealer.

 

Ask for the old clutch when you go round there, you can tell them why.

Edited November 5, 2009 by Conniff

[Gary Spedding]

Thank you ever so much for your help and advice any more advice is welcome!

 

Just some last minute things i really want to check out/that im concerned about and a little bit more extra information!.

 

I know that i should have taken the car back to the Seller garage if there was such a fault as this and got them to do the work on it directly however i was unable to do so, basically what im asking here is does it particularily matter i have had to take it to a different garage to get it seen to?

 

The reason i had it taken to another garage is as follows:

 

1, i live in North Shields where as the seller garage is in Souther shields (thus only way to get there is via tyne tunnel or the tyne bridge both of which are unfeasable in regards to towing a broken down vehicle all the way there)

 

2, the AA would only tow it to a local garage

 

And because the garage i have had the car taken to has given me a price and started work i obviously have to pay when i collect the car.....

 

My next question is this;

 

Tomorow morning i am going to telephone the seller garage and request they pay for the work on the clutch if they refuse to pay for the work i will be either asking for my money back and returning the vehicle to them (which i am well within my rights and law to do am i right???) or quoting the sale of goods act to them and seeing if i can force their hand....

 

Does this sound like the right course of action? i dont need to keep on good relations with the seller garage so im not bothered about that, i will never be using them ever again!

 

The next thing i suppose i need to find out is if the seller garage agrees to pay for the repairs, when i get the bill from the garage that is fixing my car do i just forward it to them and get them to pay it or do i have to pay the garage and then claim the money back off them? if the seller garage refuses to pay for my clutch i will be a little bit worried as i still have to collect my car and pay for it tomorow or friday at the latest what do i say to them? do i tell them i am busy claiming the repair costs from the seller garage or do i try and borrow the money to pay them so as to not cause hassle? as i dont want to get into trouble for not paying for work on my car and i cant afford to loose my car either.....

 

Thanks once again for your advice!

[Conniff]

You will need to contact the seller first and let them know that it has broken down and is being repaired. Tell them you will be sending them the bill. They will definately laugh (or worse) at you, but don't get angry back at them, just say you will be taking further action.

But you should contact them tomorrow regardless of if you have the car or not.

 

You should then send them a copy of the bill and list all the things that have gone wrong with it in the two months and again ask to be reimbursed. Give them 7 days in which to comply.

 

If you can't find the funds for the bill, ask them if they will issue you with a bill so you can submit it to the other garage.

 

One thing is certain, the seller won't agree as easily as that.

 

It's a bit late now, but I will read through this whole thread again tomorrow in case I have missed something or given wrong info.

 

Always make sure that any letters are at least recorded delivery.

[Gary Spedding]

Just one more really quick thing before i telephone these guys, I do definately have three months in regards to cars to either return or request repairs am i right????

[Gary Spedding]

Update:

 

I have telephoned both garages' the garage fixing my car wanted to ask permission to continue on with the work i told them i needed them to wait untill i knew how i was paying for it as i have no money at this moment in time (i decided honesty is the best policy especially as the garage fixing my car is owned by an old man who is friends with my grandpa).

 

I then telephoned the seller garage who sold me the car in the first place, The guy did not laugh at me however he did say he was going to get the owner of the garage to telephone me back.

 

So im waiting for that all important phone call, if it ever happens and if it doesnt happen by 12 i will telephone them back! Things are looking up i suppose!

[JimmySpangle]

This is difficult. I think you are on a hiding to nothing for a couple of reasons.

 

The first and most important is the price you paid and the age/mileage of the car. You paid £1200 for a 10 year old car with almost 100,000 on the clock. In anyones terms, that makes it a banger.

 

However, the car must be roadworthy at the time of sale. 2 months down the line it is going to be hard to say what is what. My first concern is the Army mechanic you took along. Did he not notice the 4 illegal tyres?

 

In any event, as the law stands, you must give the original garage the opportunity to rectify the problems. You didn't. You replaced the wheels and tyres yourself. The brake discs and pads are a normal wear and tear item and the clutch going is a normal wear and tear item for that mileage and age. The clutch wasn't faulty when you bought it and has lasted 3,500 miles with no problems, so that in itself would suggest the garage would not have been aware of any problem with it. It isn't something you can bodge to get the car off the forecourt - it either works correctly or it doesn't. I assume at the time of purchase it did indeed work correctly.

 

By having the car taken to pieces by a third party garage you have removed the opportunity for the selling gagare to recify the fault.

 

In my humble opinion, you don't have a leg to stand on legally. However, if you approach the original garage in the right manner, they MAY volunteer to cover some of the cost although I do not feel that they have any duty to do so.

 

This is only my opinion, based on the story you have laid out above.

[JimmySpangle]

I would add that the original niggles of the exhaust rattling was not something I would expect any garage to cover. Certainly any warranty you can purchase does not cover the exhaust system. The oil temperature light? Do you mean oil pressure light? Again, your job to ensure your car has sufficient consumables in at all times, like water and oil. Unless there is a major leak then this is probably just being burnt off by a rather old engine with high mileage.

 

The selling garages attitude regarding warranty is unhelpful, although basically correct on the faults mentioned at that stage.

 

Brake pads are as said normal wear and tear. If they get excesively low then they will damage the discs, which is what I suspect has happened here.

 

I am not defending the selling garage. Sounds like a bag of nails they soild you. But, as far as the law is concerned their only duty is to ensure it is roadworthy at the time of sale and fit for the purpose it was bought for. In this case, a cheap old banger with high mileage would not have the same level of cover as a 2 year old car with 18,000 miles on the clock.

[Gary Spedding]

Update again:

 

Recieved telephone call from withheld number turned out to be the seller garage, They said they would not cover the costs but did say if i brought the car in they would do it for 150 pounds..... I cannot get the car to them and the cost of towing it would be silly.

 

Have spoken to citizens advice and they do think i have a legal leg to stand on as the clutch has been looked at by professionals who say that the clutch should have been replaced 6,000 miles ago.

 

I will see what happens with this at the end of the day though looks like im paying for a new clutch!.

[JimmySpangle]

The clutch is inside the gearbox bellhousing and it is not possible for anyone to guess when it may need replacing at all. The only signs are noises or unusual effect of the clutch, ie slipping etc.

 

Citizens Advise are very good at talking nonsense. The mechanic who has told you the clutch should have been replaced 6,000 miles ago is talking bowlocks too. How excatly did they conclude that???? Send your old clutch to 100 different 'professionals' and they will all give you a different answer to that one.

 

The bottom line is that it has worn out - maybe due to your style of driving? After all, it did 97000miles before your drove it and within 3,500 miles you had killed it?

 

I do not think you have any chance at all. Sorry to be so blunt. I think you have just been unlucky. The only thing that you should have done was have someone with you who could check the car properly. If the tyres were so bad AT THE TIME OF SALE I think it should have been obvious. Again, maybe your style of driving to consider?

[Conniff]

The sale of goods act gives you 6 years and during the first 6 months of that period, anything you complain about 'has' to be prooved by the seller to have not been inherent or like that when they sold it. The car must also be of 'satisfactory quality' given it's age and price.

 

The seller should always be given the first opportunity to fix things, and it should have been taken to them when a fault appeared, but in these circumstances, the op did not know their consumer rights and the seller told them nothing was covered which is lies.

They cannot deny you your statutory rights and if there was anything wrong with the car they should have told you at the time and that would have covered them.

They did not do this and it is now up to them to prove the faults did not exist at the time of sale.

[JimmySpangle]

A clutch is a consumable item that is expected to wear out depending on time/mileage/style of driveing/traffic conditions etc. It has no definite lifespan whatsoever. You can destroy a brand new clutch in 30 seconds or make it last 20 years. The quote of 6000 miles is just hogwash.

 

The selling garage can prove the clutch worked at the time of the sale by the very fact that the OP drove away in the car - not possible if the clutch was broken or severely worn. Not only that but the OP then completed a further 3,500 miles with it.

 

I do feel sorry for the OP, however ignorance of the law is no argument. It is only hearsay that the selling garage refused to fix anything so that is unlikely to carry any weight in court.

 

They have no obligation to fix the clutch or brake pads/discs as they are also consumable items, however they have offered to do the clutch for a very reasonable £150.

 

The car is 10 years old and has high mileage and a low value. Thus you cannot expect a brand new car with a warranty for that sort of money - dealer or not.

 

As they say, you cannot polish a turd!

 

You are correct Conniff that the car has to be of 'satisfactory quality' given it's age and price. I belive given the information we have, that it is.

[Gary Spedding]

A clutch is a consumable item that is expected to wear out depending on time/mileage/style of driveing/traffic conditions etc. It has no definite lifespan whatsoever. You can destroy a brand new clutch in 30 seconds or make it last 20 years. The quote of 6000 miles is just hogwash.

 

The selling garage can prove the clutch worked at the time of the sale by the very fact that the OP drove away in the car - not possible if the clutch was broken or severely worn. Not only that but the OP then completed a further 3,500 miles with it.

 

I do feel sorry for the OP, however ignorance of the law is no argument. It is only hearsay that the selling garage refused to fix anything so that is unlikely to carry any weight in court.

 

They have no obligation to fix the clutch or brake pads/discs as they are also consumable items, however they have offered to do the clutch for a very reasonable £150.

 

The car is 10 years old and has high mileage and a low value. Thus you cannot expect a brand new car with a warranty for that sort of money - dealer or not.

 

As they say, you cannot polish a turd!

 

You are correct Conniff that the car has to be of 'satisfactory quality' given it's age and price. I belive given the information we have, that it is.

 

 

I am sorry jimmyspangle but i do not agree with you entirely, yes clutches are consumable items as with breaks and tyres etc however the problems i had with the breaks/tyres/exhaust etc all happend within the first 200 miles i did of buying the car when i spoke to the garage about such they told me they could do nothing except fix it at a price...... the price was more than what our family mechanic told us it would cost him to do it and also my ignorance of law shined through as they told me they did not give me any kind of warranty which is utter bull as by law they have to give me 3 months at least according to the various other reputable dealerships i have spoken to and according to citizens advice.

 

The clutch was most probably like the rest of the vehicles parts on its way out..... i have to get worn wishbones replaced next, timing belt and fanbelt..... etc etc oh and a suspension spring is dangerous on the far side front wheel which i didnt pick up on when i bought the car either.

 

My possition is that the car was sold to me in an unsafe condition and that it is not and was not fit for purpose at the time of purchase.

 

Which is the angle i am going for anyways, i am seeing a solicitor and also getting an international lawyer involved. This small business really did pick on the wrong person.

 

The good news is a friend of myne who lives in the middle east has spoken to me, im being bought a brand new peugot 207 tomorow and i am getting legal advice from a highly paid solicitors all free of charge

[JimmySpangle]

International lawyer? Free car from the middle east?

 

Anyone else remember Jackanory?

[Gary Spedding]

International lawyer? Free car from the middle east?

 

Anyone else remember Jackanory?

 

 

Well done you learned how to use sarcasm- Not helpfull. however fact remains as of 9:30am i will have a 59 plate peugot 207 sitting in my driveway.

[JimmySpangle]

I am happy for you. Really I am. Now you just need to get your money back from the garage.

 

As of 09:59, I will have a cup of coffee and a custard cream sitting on my desk. Cold day - new car or hot coffee. I will take the coffee thanks.

 

Just a thought. Why not get your friend from the Middle East to buy the garage, then he can refund you?

[Gary Spedding]

I am happy for you. Really I am. Now you just need to get your money back from the garage.

 

As of 09:59, I will have a cup of coffee and a custard cream sitting on my desk. Cold day - new car or hot coffee. I will take the coffee thanks.

 

Just a thought. Why not get your friend from the Middle East to buy the garage, then he can refund you?

 

 

He isn't that rich or generous :]

 

Edit* he also only heard about it because of facebook so offered to help me.....

[heliosuk]

Some people do get lucky Jimmy. Just think of those who copped 45 million a piece this weekend. Good luck to him. I hope that one day he will return the favour he has been blessed with.

 

BTW Jackonory was very good but some of the tales told if I remember were based on true life stories!!!

[Conniff]

Some people do get lucky Jimmy. Just think of those who copped 45 million a piece this weekend. Good luck to him. I hope that one day he will return the favour he has been blessed with.

 

BTW Jackonory was very good but some of the tales told if I remember were based on true life stories!!!

 

The winners in Liverpool weren't very lucky, they only get a measley £6.5m each as they were in a syndicate.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Conniff
Upped the prize money they got

[JimmySpangle]

LOL.

 

I didn't want to mention my good fortune last Friday. Yes, some people do get lucky. A former colleague of mine at Jack Barclays, Gary Childs, in 1988 was given a £50,000 Cartier watch by a very wealthy Arab chap as a 'thank you' for repairing the damage on his Bentley Turbo R. He was actually the paintshop manager and didn't actually repair the car at all, but he got lucky.

 

I am glas it is all sorted. Still reject teh original car and insist on a full refund.

[heliosuk]

The winners in Liverpool weren't very lucky, they only get a measley £3m each as they were in a syndicate.

 

Come on Conniff, what did you get?

 

3 million would do me nicely.

 

Good luck to them!! (Not that they need it now)

 

Lets hope that some of them who might be in difficulty can now turnround and stick two fingers up to the banks as I'm quite sure the banks will be "doing some serious puckering up" to them now.

 

Hopefully one will be a member of CAG who will be able to chuck a few bob towards the site.