Miss R -v- Howard Cohen

[Brassed off]

A friend has received a Notice of Assignment from Howard Cohen today which states that they are acting on behalf of CL Finance saying that a claim has been submitted to the County Court for issue and that payment must be forwarded to their offices - a P O Box in Cleckheaton.

 

She has also received a Claim Form in the post from Northampton Bulk Centre.

 

This is for a store card and she hasn't paid due to financial difficulties.

 

I have asked her whether she can remember receiving a Default Notice or a Notice of Assignment from the store card company and although she doesn't think so, she is going to check all her paperwork tonight.

 

I've had a quick read through the Howard Cohen sticky as he's a new one on me and have told her to ring the court tomorrow to check whether the claim number on the Court form is legit

 

I know she has to act quick on this so presumably, she would need to CCA Howard Cohen's or should she do a CPR to them?

 

Thanks to a fellow Cagger's info, she can also do a holding defence online?

 

TIA

 

 

Bo

Edited October 29, 2009 by Brassed off

[42man]

Hi Bo...CPR31.14 in the first instance...can you post up the Particulars Of the Claim first...?

[PGH7447]

cca cl finance, howrd cohen is their pet solicitor also is their store card a debenhams card from GE bank if it is I will post a link uo to an interesting thread

[PGH7447]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/store-cards/228765-howard-cohen-ge-money.html

 

read this

[Brassed off]

Thanks for your input 42 and PGH

 

She's tried ringing the court today but keeps getting a recorded message stating that they are busy.

 

Will have to type the POC as my scanner isn't working:-

 

"The Claimant's claim is for the sum of £XXXX being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant under a regulated credit agreement between the Defendant and XXXX (Card Company) under ref XXXXXX and assigned to the Claimant on XX October 2009 notice of which has been given to the Defendant. (She received the NOA from Cohen's on the same day as the CC Claim Form).

 

The Defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served upon the Defendant pursuant to Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Pursuant to clause 7 of the agreement, the Claimant also claims contractual interest at a rate of 0.000% per annum from the date of these proceedings to the date of judgment, or sooner payment, accruing at a daily rate of 0.00."

[Brassed off]

PGH - it's not a Debenhams card - see my PM

[cerberusalert]

Did she receive a default notice, and is the amount they are claiming the full amount allegedly owed?

[42man]

Send this letter recorded to Cohens...(it will need reading carefully and editing as required - this is a good reference thread - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html - Acknowledge receipt of the claim form with 14 days of the date on the claim form, then state DEFEND all if that is the intention, then you get a further 14+3 days in which to submit a defence...

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

[Brassed off]

Cerberus, I'm waiting for her to call with all her paperwork tonight but she can't remember receiving a Default Notice. I will let you know as soon as I've had chance to trawl through the paperwork.

 

42 I will prepare the CPR 31.14 this evening. Is it OK to send it Special Delivery to the P O Box address for Cohens or does it need to go to their Head Office address ?

 

I presume I acknowledge receipt of the claim form online ?

 

I will have a good read through the link you've provided thanks.

[PGH7447]

good luck BO and thanks for the rep, I am trawling through my paper work this weekend regarding the debenhams store card:)

[Brassed off]

42 ignore my question about acknowledging online - I've just done it! There was a link on the Claim Form.

 

Just for Caggers' reference, I have acknowledged receipt of the Claim form online at www.moneyclaim.gov.uk and stated that she intends to defend all.

 

Never done anything like this before so it's a big learning curve for me!

 

Thanks PGH

[Brassed off]

OK, I've been through all her paperwork and there is definitely no Default Notice and I can't see an agreement either. The Default Notice is referred to several times in the letters from GE Capital Bank who later change to GE Money (you were right PGH!).

 

There are a lot of letters which state that they are Notice of Default Sums stating that GE Money are sending the notice in compliance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 but just with late payment charges and charges for bounced direct debits on them so definitely not a Default Notice.

 

Somewhere along the line, it's been to a DCA (not one I know!) and finally ended up with the letter from Cohens saying that it is a Notice of Assignment and stating they are acting on behalf of CL Finance who have been assigned the alleged debt by the card company.

 

No NOA from the card company stating that CL Finance have been assigned the debt at all and definitely no paperwork from CL Finance.

 

From what I can see, a few hundred pounds has been added to the original balance and the amount allegedly outstanding on the Claim Form that has been submitted by Cohens.

[PGH7447]

go get em BO

[saintly_1]

Thread moved to legal issues as requested

[GhostDebt]

Hi BO,

Have you sent the CPR letter to cohens yet?

Don't forget to send recorded/signed for delivery and make sure your friend doesn't sign it and keeps proof of postage/delivery.

We had 2 cases with cohens/CL. 1 struck out, 1 ongoing still..! and getting used to their little tricks/tactics.

 

Regards

[Brassed off]

Hi GD

 

I spotted your thread earlier and off for a read now !

 

Yes CPR letter sent to Cohens Spec Del, I'm tracking it for her - deffo not signed

 

Been doing some homework on the threads but just a quick question for clarification. I've acknowledged the claim form on MCOL and it states that you need to file a defence within 14 days of the date of service unless you have filled in an Acknowledgement of Service (which I have done on her behalf). By filling in the AoS as 42man says, she then has a further 14+3 days from the date of service - presumably this is not working days?

[GhostDebt]

Hi BO.

 

On claim forms I have received the wording says.

You must respond to this claim form within 14 days of the day of service.

The attached forms may be used for that purpose. The day of service is taken as 5 days after the issue date shown overleaf.

and

You must send either the completed acknowledgement of service form or a defence to the court within 14 days of the date of service. If you send the acknowledgement of service you must send a defence to the court to arrive no later than 28 days from the date of service.

 

As it does not say otherwise I would suggest this is calendar days.

 

You can also file the defence online with MCOL but I understand there is a limit of 8000 characters. There are some defences on the forum which will fit on MCOL, but you need to be sure that the defence you submit contains all the relevant information at the time, so do not cut bits out just to get it to fit MCOL if those parts are needed.

 

Regards

[PGH7447]

BO see some of Creditcardmug and/or postggj threads for defences, I used some of theirs for guidance and they worked a treat

[Brassed off]

Thanks you two

[Brassed off]

Two letters received this week from Cohens. Both standard letters, the first stating that they require payment of the sum shown failing which, they will seek judgment. Then at the bottom, it just states that if she has already responded to the claim, to ignore the letter.

 

The second refers to the CPR 31.14 letter sent saying that as the claim made is less than £5K, that CPR doesn't apply and they are not obliged to provide the information and in the unlikely even that the claim is not allocated to the small claims track, they will deal with disclosure as directed by the court.

 

From reading other threads, this seems to be the norm from Cohens.

 

Any advice on my next step?

[PGH7447]

normal cohen response, you may as well send off your defence now

[debbbbsy]

Yes do your defence, specifically refer to the POC, ,all docs that they rely upon to enforce this claim,including the agreement which contains Clause 7(so far I have not found anyone with an agreement that contains this clause).

Make the court fully aware of their refusal to supply these documents.

 

Then its a waiting game to see if HC proceed, don't be surprised if they choose to go ahead without the docs.

In most cases, they only retreat at the last minute after youv'e done your AQ, then under your direction the Judge forces full disclosure from HC, & they know they can't win.

I would also recommend you write back to HC, point out you are aware of your rights, & their obligations. Give them the opportunity to withdraw the claim.This will help any future defence.

Debs

[Brassed off]

Thanks for that. I have until the end of the month to file the Defence so will work on it and post it up for checking - this is all very new to me and I would like to get it right for her.

 

Do I need to write to the court to advise them that HC are stating that part 31 of the CPR does not apply to amounts less than £5K and saying that they are not obliged to provide the information or will e-mail suffice?

 

Is there any standard letter for advising HC that she is aware of her rights and their obligations as I'm really not sure how to word it.

 

TIA

 

Bo

[PGH7447]

i dont think you need to inform the courts but you can add it in your Embarressed defence

[42man]

No need to write anything Bo.....it states it clearly in the CPR31.14

 

"Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise"