bailiff phoning this morning please help

[mrsboop]

i was thinking that they could not charge for 2nd visit and levy in one go

as they have only been out twice and levy was pushed through on the 2nd visit

 

can you please clarify on whether they can levy if car in husbands name

as conflicting repots saying were joint

 

what shall i say if they phone, should i tape call

 

i dont really understand the workings of the wp can they charge for this even if they haven't been in your house

[mrsboop]

yeah yeah yeah sorry got confused

 

council tax bill £558

 

baliff wants 730 172 bailiff fees = £130 enforcement fee

£42 for levy of car

 

1st and 2nd visit they said they had deducted off my ist installment for council tax which was £50

 

youre very good at this

[mrsboop]

car worth about £700

[hallowitch]

was thinking that they could not charge for 2nd visit and levy in one go

as they have only been out twice and levy was pushed through on the 2nd visit

you are correct

can you please clarify on whether they can levy if car in husbands name

as conflicting reports saying were joint

 

in my opinion they can levy the car as you are both responsible for the council tax

Joint and several liability

 

27.—(1) This regulation applies in a case where, in relation to any chargeable dwelling and any day—

• (a) by virtue of section 6(3) or (4)(b), 7(4) or (5), or 8(4) or (5) of the Act, two or more persons; or
  

• (b) by virtue of section 9(1) of the Act, both the liable person and any other resident of the dwelling to whom he is married ("the spouse"),
  

are jointly and severally liable to pat council tax in respect of the dwelling and that day.

 

 

(2) In a case to which this regulation applies and subject to regulation 28(1), in relation to each day in the chargeable period concerned on which an amount payable in respect of council tax is unpaid, the persons referred to in paragraph (1)(a) or, as the case may be, paragraph (1)(b) shall be jointly and severally liable to pay such fraction of—

• (a) where the day by which all instalments payable under a demand notice in accordance with Part I of Schedule 1 or a Part II scheme are payable has passed, the aggregate amount of those instalments (together with the amount of any excess payable in accordance with paragraph 10(5) of that Schedule),
  

• (b) where paragraph (3) of regulation 23 applies, the estimated amount mentioned in that paragraph,
  

• © the chargeable amount or appropriate amount stated in a notice given under regulation 24(1) or (5) or 25(4) or (8),
  

• (d) the amount stated in a notice given under paragraph 9(3) of Schedule 1,
  

• (e) the amount required to be paid by a demand notice to which regulation 20(4) or (5) applies, or
  

• (f) the amount stated in a notice given under regulation 31(2),
  

• (g) any amount payable under an agreement under regulation 21(5),
  

what shall i say if they phone, should i tape call

absolutely yes tape the call

ask her how she has work out the levy fee ask why she has charged a 2nd visit fee on the same day as levy fee and not a walking possession fee

ask her what regulations an enforcement fee comes under

 

if she quotes the distress for rent rules or the council tax administration and enforcement tell her their is no provision for this charge in these rules and if she insists on trying to charge this you will officially complain to the bailiff company who employ her and the council if she tells you that your complaint will be no good tell her if this is the case you will file a form 4 complaint to the court she was certificated at and use the recording of all her calls including the call where she asked you to borrow money to pay this debt (this is not allowed under the office of fair trading guidelines )as evidence against her

[hallowitch]

yeah yeah yeah sorry got confused

 

council tax bill £558

 

bailiff wants 730 172 bailiff fees = £130 enforcement fee

£42 for levy of car

 

1st and 2nd visit they said they had deducted off my its installment for council tax which was £50

 

you're very good at this

 

 

don't worry can be very confusing its OK to be confused on here

but don't let the bailiff confuse you

 

you now have the regulations use them to your advantage if the bailiff phones

[mrsboop]

god your good

 

writing this with a smile on my face

 

what is the difference between a wp and a levy why do the charge one or the other

 

when i asked about the enforcement fee before she said it was for the removal of my car but remember only had two visits.

 

so asking you to borrow money is illegal

[hallowitch]

Distress

45.—(1) Where a liability order has been made, the authority which applied for the order may levy the appropriate amount by distress and sale of the goods of the debtor against whom the order was made.

 

(2) The appropriate amount for the purposes of paragraph (1) is the aggregate of—

(a) an amount equal to any outstanding sum which is or forms part of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made, and

(b) a sum determined in accordance with Schedule 5 in respect of charges connected with the distress.

(3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

 

(4) Where an authority has seized goods of the debtor in pursuance of the distress, but before sale of those goods the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount, the sale shall not be proceeded with and the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor.

 

(5) The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into.

 

(6) A distress may be made anywhere in England and Wales

 

 

 

the walking possession fee is charged along with the levy fee

the council take possession of the (car) and walk away leaving the car that they now own (until the debt is paid) in the possession of the debtor

hence walking possession there is a fee for leaving the councils possessions with the debtor £12

 

hope you understand this

[hallowitch]

wee tip for you

 

if you put tomtubby council tax in the search and read her posts then wee are now talking expert she is the best

[mrsboop]

sort of just seems to me that they are charging twice for the same visit

 

council just phoned said bailiff lady i need to speak to is not in until tomorrow so got a 24 hour reprieve

 

thanks for helping

 

got to go now and do some housework will return later

 

thank you

[hallowitch]

so asking you to borrow money is illegal

not illegal but not allowed under the office of fair trading guidelines and a complaint can be made to them regarding this

you can also complain to trading standards and the Ministry of justice

[hallowitch]

your welcome

 

another thing you should not have to deal with the bailiff regarding unlawful fees this is the councils responsibility they employ them and are responsible for all bailiffs actions including dealing with the unlawful fees they charge

Edited September 29, 2009 by hallowitch

[mrsboop]

thats easier said than done

 

all they say is we can't discuss bailiffs charges

when i asked themabout the enforcement fee they said i would have to speak to the bailiff as it would be wrong of him to say whether the charges were right or wrong

[ambershadow]

Just pay the council direct if he hasn't been in your property there is nothing he can do he can' take the car it's not in your name and the council tax bill is in your name only so you have to pay...

 

He will have to take you to small claims court for his fees if you pay the council direct you don't have to answer to him at all as you haven't signed a WPO

[hallowitch]

thats easier said than done

 

all they say is we can't discuss bailiffs charges

when i asked them about the enforcement fee they said i would have to speak to the bailiff as it would be wrong of him to say whether the charges were right or wrong

 

this is compete and utter rubbish the bailiff works for the council as an agent for the collection of council tax therefore they are jointly responsible for there bailiffs actions including the fees (out of curiosity is this Birmingham council)

 

don't phone them always write to the council /bailiffs

 

send by e-mail first followed up with recorded delivery letter

any e-mails/ letters sent to bailiffs send copy to council and vice versa

 

address your letter as an official complaint and send to council/bailiffs complaint department and copy to the council head of revenues

[mrsboop]

no walsall council

 

i have got local councillor and he got chief exec involved

 

fingers crossed

 

tried tomtubby but mailbox full

[hallowitch]

Just pay the council direct if he hasn't been in your property there is nothing he can do he can' take the car it's not in your name and the council tax bill is in your name only so you have to pay...

 

He will have to take you to small claims court for his fees if you pay the council direct you don't have to answer to him at all as you haven't signed a WPO

 

bit of a debate going on about the car levy amber

husband not named on liability order his car

on the other hand he is jointly responsible for the council tax

i wouldn't like to say that they cant levy remove the car for this reason

and if she pays the council direct without the council taking back the debt the bailiff could remove the car/or charge a van fee (as we all know bailiff don't work to the rules )

[hallowitch]

did try to e-mail tomtubby on this subject but her P M box full

[dawnwb]

Hi, Just got back from work, glad to see your feeling a little bit better and that you have 24hrs to look into this.

I found this on canterbury council website regarging bailiffs

 

"They can only take goods belonging to the person named on the liability order, but it is up to that person to prove it if any goods on the premises do not belong to them. This is not the bailiff's responsibility."

 

It might be that if your husband is not named on the liability order then they cant take his car, try calling CAB or National Debt line, they should know

[dawnwb]

I think your husband is liable for the debt too, I found this on oxford council website:

 

Oxford City Council decides who is liable to pay the Council Tax at each property in the City. This is a straightforward process because the rules are the same for every council in England and Wales. In most cases the liable person will be the owner occupier or tenant of the dwelling. The liable person is the person whose name is on the bill.

 

Who is liable to pay?

 

The following list is used to work out who is liable. The person or persons liable are whoever is nearest the top of the table. (A resident is someone aged 18 or over who has their sole or main residence in the dwelling).

Start at number 1:

1. If there is a resident at the property who is the freeholder (usually called the 'owner occupier'), then they are the liable person.
   If no-one meets this description, go on to number 2.
   
2. If there is a resident at the property who is a leaseholder (for example if you own a flat or if you have a lease on a property), then they are the liable person.
   If no-one meets this description, go on to number 3.
   
3. If there is a resident at the property who is a statutory tenant (for example a council or housing association tenant or a tenant with a written agreement), then they are the liable person.
   If no-one meets this description, go on to number 4.
   
4. If there is a resident at the property who has a licence (a type of tenancy agreement) to occupy the dwelling, then they are the liable person.
   If no-one meets this description, go on to number 5.
   
5. If there is a resident, then they are the liable person. This could be someone living in the property with or without the permission of the owner.
   If no-one meets this description, go on to number 6
   
6. The owner is liable (the dwelling is no-one's sole or main residence). This could apply to second homes, for example. It can also apply where the property is occupied by people who have their main residence elsewhere (for example visiting academics).
   

Joint and several liability

 

Where two or more people are on the same position in the table, they are jointly and severally liable. This means that they do not each pay 'shares' of the bill, but that they are jointly responsible for ensuring that the bill is paid. If the bill or part of it is unpaid, Oxford City Council can pursue one or any number of the liable persons.

If a liable person has a spouse who also lives at the property, then that person is also jointly and severally liable. A spouse means a husband or a wife or someone who lives with the liable person as husband and wife.

 

I think the last bit clears it up, sorry but i think they may be correct in seizing your husbands car. You might want to get proper advice from CAB?

[mrsboop]

thanks to everyone replying

 

did try tomtubby but mailbox full

 

feeling quite cheery youre a great bunch probably wont stress about it till tomorrow

 

thank you

[Slimrabbit]

If the car is in your other halfs name then you can get them to fill out a Statutory Decleration saying that they own the car and not you, that way the bailiff can't take it in relation to the liability order as you don't own it.

 

I'm pretty ceratin that bailiff's can't take any goods off people that are NOT on the laibility order.

[mrsboop]

hi everyone

 

getting ready for the call off the bailiff today

 

i will be recording the call here is a list of the questions i shall ask

 

1. why are you charging me an enforcement fee and what regulations do they come under?

 

2. under the freedom of information act i would like a full breakdown of charges on me in writing including exact timings, calls and letters

 

3. why have i been charged for a 2nd visit and a levy on the same day, shouldn't it be a 2nd visit and a walking possession order

 

i shall also be asking why did the bailiff refuse to take my payment and say that if i did pay online she would bounce it back to me

 

and i want to say something about her asking me to ask friends and family for money which i now i can report her for but dont know how to say this to the bailiff when she calls

 

 

 

 

if anyone can add or change these questions i would be greatfull

 

also the 2nd visit was when i got the notice of seizure green form and on it was charges for 172 pound

 

so they have charged for 42 levy

and 130 enforcement fee

she said that as i had already paid my 1st installment on my arranged plan of £50 that has paid for the 1st and 2nd visit so all i owed now was the

£172

 

so in effect the 2nd visit cost me £42 levy £130 enffocement and the 2nd visit fee of £18 is that right

[sillygirl1]

Don't ask question 3, she should NOT be charging a walking possession fee as no legally valid levy seems to have taken place... you are playing right into her hands by asking that. Just ask

 

"Why have I been charged a levy fee on the second visit when no legal levy has taken place"

 

The 'enforcement fee' is a fraudulent fee and she has made the whole levy invalid by charging you this.

[dawnwb]

what did they say they had seized on your notice of seizure? they should list the goods that have been seized. If they havent seized anything they cant charge you enforcment or removal etc etc basicly that £172! Did they seize your husbands car? If they did that is abit of a grey area as we cant establish if hes liable for the bailiff debt or not, you need to get proper legal advice about that.....if they havent seized his car then get it moved ASAP!!

[mrsboop]

i am not gonna dispute the fact that she has levied on our car as legally i dont have a leg to stand on re previous posts

 

what do you mean by legal levy

 

why does the enforcement fee make the levy invalid

 

thanks for helping