Cabot here we go

[DEBANT]

Out of the blue both my partner and I both started receiving letters from cabot, stateing we owed money to credit cards we have never heard of or ever held. Ssssstrange, We have never heard of this or ever had letters like this and even letters saying that the debt was being passed onto baliffs ? Anyone got any ideas to stop them in their tracks ?

[Deb T]

removed...the response below is perhaps the more apt one at this point in time

Edited September 11, 2009 by Deb T

[cerberusalert]

If you know nothing of these debts you could send them this http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/573-general-debt-letter-if-you-know-nothing-of-the-debt and if they try to pursue make a complaint to Trading Standards via Consumer Direct Consumer Direct - Contact us and email the OFT debtcollectionguidance@oft.gsi.gov.uk

[DEBANT]

History of our cases. Some 3 months ago my partner & I both started receiving letters from Cabot. At first we just binned them as junk mail as we had never heard of Cabot and the letters never stated what they were for and just to contact them. Then we received more letters saying our accounts were overdue ? what accounts we thought !.

 

On receiving these letters we phoned them and we were informed there were outstanding balances on credit cards from 2001 to 2005 to the value of £150 & £700. The credit cards they stated we had never held or on one never heard of .We advised Cabot of this & said it must be fraud.

Cabot advised that we put it in writing and sign the letters for comparison with any contract . On the £700 account they had already passed it to a company called CCS Collect.?

I wrote a letter ref the £150 account and they replied thay were passing the details onto the original card company and we should wait 21 to 30 days for a response. We are waiting the results with optimism.

On the £700 account we get bombarded with phone calls from CCS who keep threatening a visit ? We have advised them that no cards under the companies they state have ever been held by us but they continue their harrasment,

I have sat and written two more letters , one to Cabot and one to CCS following the guidlines here with regards to adviseing them of knowing nothing of their demands.

Even when ive spoken on the phone to Cabot they still ask if I want to make a payment, and when I last spoke to CCS after numerous times of them phoneing I informed them that I had never ever had these cards, and come to it I have never in my life had ANY credit cards. Thats how I know the debts are not mine. I asked them to stop ringing and if they want to communicate to do it by letter. The response I got was, " You think you are clever " then they put the phone down.

I still can not believe how they can do this and get away with it, do the legal bodies that put the guidelines down really make any difference I wonder. Any suggestions on any of this ?. I did tell both companies I would go to the police but they just said it would not make any difference as it is a civil matter. when I here anything else I will add it to this thread.

[katpuss]

History of our cases. Some 3 months ago my partner & I both started receiving letters from Cabot. At first we just binned them as junk mail as we had never heard of Cabot and the letters never stated what they were for and just to contact them. Then we received more letters saying our accounts were overdue ? what accounts we thought !.

 

On receiving these letters we phoned them and we were informed there were outstanding balances on credit cards from 2001 to 2005 to the value of £150 & £700. The credit cards they stated we had never held or on one never heard of .We advised Cabot of this & said it must be fraud.

Cabot advised that we put it in writing and sign the letters for comparison with any contract . On the £700 account they had already passed it to a company called CCS Collect.?

 

Some of these debts will be statute barred especially the ones that date back to 2001 so ignore them.

 

I wrote a letter ref the £150 account and they replied thay were passing the details onto the original card company and we should wait 21 to 30 days for a response. We are waiting the results with optimism.

On the £700 account we get bombarded with phone calls from CCS who keep threatening a visit ? We have advised them that no cards under the companies they state have ever been held by us but they continue their harrasment,

 

Do you have anything in writing stating that the cards have never been held by you?

 

I have sat and written two more letters , one to Cabot and one to CCS following the guidlines here with regards to adviseing them of knowing nothing of their demands.

Even when ive spoken on the phone to Cabot they still ask if I want to make a payment, and when I last spoke to CCS after numerous times of them phoneing I informed them that I had never ever had these cards, and come to it I have never in my life had ANY credit cards. Thats how I know the debts are not mine. I asked them to stop ringing and if they want to communicate to do it by letter. The response I got was, " You think you are clever " then they put the phone down.

 

You can send them a harrassment letter asking that they do not call you as the debts are not yours.

 

I still can not believe how they can do this and get away with it, do the legal bodies that put the guidelines down really make any difference I wonder. Any suggestions on any of this ?. I did tell both companies I would go to the police but they just said it would not make any difference as it is a civil matter. when I here anything else I will add it to this thread.

 

This could be a case of identity fraud which you should take up with some legal advice.

[mr.ton]

They would have you believe its a civil matter & the police would tell you that as well....but its upto you to kick up a fuss & get the police involved if & when required (only if the situation calls for it) and do not let the police fob you off as they are public servants at the end of the day.

DCA's do not really care if you actually owe the money or not - they just want payment regardless, its up to you to put them in their place etc...

Once put in their place, they soon vanish.

[Huff&Puff]

Stop talking to them on the phone. If they call, refuse to go through security. As you have discovered, they can bully you on the phone, and they will do anything to try and speak over the phone.

 

And report them to Trading Standards an the OFT. They are breaking plenty of laws by chasing you for debts that aren't yours. It's only by us all complaining whenver they step out of line, that action may eventually be taken, hopefully.

[lilly white]

well what is going on here.

 

Write to them tell them you will see them in court,

 

Do not put up with this give them 14 days to come with somthing, if they do not tell them to shut up or put up.

 

i will keep a watch

 

BR lilly

[DEBANT]

Thanks for the feedback all, I have thought about getting a solicitor to send them a letter but not sure if that will do any good ? but hey ho why should I go to the expense.

[vjohn82]

They are well known for chasing this particular type of account i.e one where the debtor is unknown and they play pin the tail on the phone book ;-)

 

There are plenty of letters you can draft yourself without the expense of a solicitor and those types of costs are ones you will never get back. I would try to achieve your goals on your own at this point. If the debts are genuinely not yours then you can claim damages for "distress" and the obvious damage to your character regarding applications for credit.

 

There is a formal process but the best way of approaching this is not to give them your signature (ever), not call them and make a formal request for the credit agreement. This will make the process quite simple then because you will have the d.o.b etc of the real debtor.

[DEBANT]

Well, we posted two letters yesterday , one to cabot and one to CCS , see what happens now then, phone has been ringing still today. See if it stops over the next couple of days .

[ScabHunter]

Right. I have now read this thread through and here is what I would do if I was in your position.

 

1) Forget about paying lawyers. You need to handle this yourself.

 

2) Send the following letter to both sets of leeches -

 

- HARASSMENT WARNING -

 

WARNING: PROTECTION FROM HARASSMENT ACT 1997

 

WARNING: COMMUNICATIONS ACT 2003. s127.

 

Telephone Number: *******

 

Re: Harassment by Telephone

 

Date

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Alleged Account Number ********

 

I am writing in relation to the telephone calls I have received from your organisation, which I deem to be personally harassing. I have requested that these calls stop; however I have today received yet another unlawfully harassing and distressing call from *****.

 

I now require the telephone number listed above to be completely removed from your systems.

 

I am in the view that your renewed calling puts you in breach of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

This is a private telephone line, operated on a contract with the intention of receiving and making personal phone calls, I have not authorised any other member of my family to receive calls from your organisation using this PRIVATE TELEPHONE LINE.

 

By using this telephone number without my permission you are interfering with my ability to use my own private property for the duration of any call.

 

It is my right to require that this telephone line, which is licensed solely to myself, be kept clear for my own personal calls.

 

It is consequently my view that you are committing the tort of interference with contract insofar as for the duration of each call you make to me without my permission, you are interfering with my contractual right to receive and make personal calls on my private telephone line.

 

Continued interference with my contractual rights in this manner will result in legal action.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to the Office of Communications, Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable for a substantial fine.

 

Further to this, if it is your intention to arrange a call from your 'Doorstep Collectors', I note that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

Take note, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or any of your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless. Any trespassers you attempt to send therefore will be dealt with accordingly.

 

Be further advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded..

 

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

(Print, don't sign)

 

3) Go here -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/195265-complaining-oft.html

 

and read about Complaints to the OFT. Fill in one form for each shower of crud and send it off.

 

4) Read this article on the CPUTR 2008, and make a complaint to Trading Standards, one for each dung heap.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/faq/76-consumer-protection-from-unfair-trading-regulations-2008-draft/430-aggressive-and-misleading-practices-

 

5) Then, send the following letter -

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re Reference No. xxxxxxxxxx

 

You have made repeated contact with me concerning an alleged debt with the above reference number. I have informed your organisation on multiple occasions that this alleged debt is NOT mine.

 

The Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance states -

 

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

a. sending demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question, for example, threatening debt recovery action to 'the occupier' or sending a payment demand to all people sharing the same name/date of birth as a debtor in the hope that contact with the correct debtor will be made.

 

A formal complaint concerning your actions has been made to the Office Of Fair Trading, and this complaint will be added to should further unfair practices occur.

 

You can also regard this letter as the initiation of an internal formal complaint. I therefore require a copy of your complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply. Failure to satisfy this complaint will result in it being escalated to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

You are also in violation of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. Specifically, you are in violation of Section 7, Aggressive commercial practices, which states -

 

7.—(1) A commercial practice is aggressive if, in its factual context, taking account of all of its features and circumstances—

(a) it significantly impairs or is likely significantly to impair the average consumer’s freedom of choice or conduct in relation to the product concerned through the use of harassment, coercion or undue influence; and

(b) it thereby causes or is likely to cause him to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.

(2) In determining whether a commercial practice uses harassment, coercion or undue influence account shall be taken of—

(a) its timing, location, nature or persistence;

(b) the use of threatening or abusive language or behaviour;

© the exploitation by the trader of any specific misfortune or circumstance of such gravity as to impair the consumer’s judgment, of which the trader is aware, to influence the consumer’s decision with regard to the product;

(d) any onerous or disproportionate non-contractual barrier imposed by the trader where a consumer wishes to exercise rights under the contract, including rights to terminate a contract or to switch to another product or another trader; and

(e) any threat to take any action which cannot legally be taken.

(3) In this regulation—

(a) “coercion” includes the use of physical force; and

(b) “undue influence” means exploiting a position of power in relation to the consumer so as to apply pressure, even without using or threatening to use physical force, in a way which significantly limits the consumer’s ability to make an informed decision.

 

Attempting to coerce a third party, who has no knowledge of, or liability for, any alleged debt is clearly a violation of this statute. A complaint has duly been registered with Trading Standards, which may be added to should further harassment occur.

 

I have been advised by your employees that reporting your conduct to the Police would be futile as this is a civil matter. I am afraid you are mistaken. The Protection From Harassment Act 1997 is part of criminal law and I reserve the right to bring action under it should you continue to harass my family or myself without any due cause or reason.

 

As I am the not the debtor you are seeking, you have absolutely no right to be processing my data at all. You can regard this letter as a formal demand under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1998 that you cease processing my data. I require a written response from you within twenty-one days that you have removed my data completely from your systems. Should you fail to comply with this demand, a complaint will be forwarded to the Information Commissioner's Office and legal action may be instigated.

 

I look forward to your reply that this matter is closed and that no further action will be necessary.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

(Print name, don't sign)

The first letter is an amalgamation of two templates, the second one is just something I've put together off the top of my head.

 

SH

[DEBANT]

Hi SH.

Super duper advice and much appreciated. You really know the words. Many thanks for your time , I will do this approach this week and keep you posted. probably take a week for the letters to hit home eh.

[Fester Tester]

I am surprised nobody has suggested this yet, so I will.

 

Have you requested copies of your credit files yet? If identity fraud is suspected to have been committed, this should be one of the first things you should do.

[DEBANT]

Well letters sent on Monday and still the phone calls persist. Sending 2 more tomorrow. I know advise says dont answer the calls but 6 in 30 minutes ?. I just had to answer two of them.

The first caller I advised that I had sent them a letter and to stop phoneing as the debts are not mine and I informed them that I would not give any further info. The CCS employee just said ANGRILY, ok we are taking you to court, and put the phone down,

Call number 2, The CCS employee advised that it does not matter how many letters we sent the debt would just be passed onto another debt collecting agency and it would start over again, they advised we should go to the police and get a crime ref number ? . And they stated the debt is from 2001.?. This does not stop them phoneing .

This is all ssstrange . We have asked for proof that the debts are ours but they just seem to go blank in the mind.

[Huff&Puff]

You have to realise that all they want to do is to get you on the phone in order to bully you into paying them money. They don't care if the debt isn't yours, they don't care if they have any paperwork or not, they don't care if it's Statute Barred or not. And they certainly feel no need to comply with the law, as nobody will enforce it :mad:

 

You are playing right into their hands by answering the phone to them, and you can never gain anything from it, because the don't give a flying fig what you have to say unless it's to give them your payment details.

[ScabHunter]

Why did you have to answer them? Who made you?

 

Do not ever talk to these cretins on the telephone unless you are recording the call and have a reason for doing so, such as gathering evidence for complaints and possible legal action.

 

I don't know your circumstances, but if your telephone line is an important part of your life, and you can spare the money, you will find the trueCall to be one of the best investments you ever made. It will give you control over your own telephone line for the first time in your life.

 

Even after this nightmare is over, it will still be useful in cutting out all of the other dickhead nuisance callers everybody has to put up with.

 

Even if you can't record the calls, at least keep a log of the call times.

 

Make the necessary complaints if you have not already done so. Be prepared for a fight, but also be aware that it is a fight they cannot win as they can never produce a signed agreement on an account which never existed.

 

The final response letters need to be exactly that - your final response. Any further dialogue needs to be with the regulatory authorities.

 

SH

[cerberusalert]

Complain to the OFT & TS, links in post #3 & remind them of this case;

 

Ferguson v. British Gas Trading Ltd (2009) is relevant to cases like this - if Trading Standards are reluctant, draw their attention to this part of the judgment:

 

Sedley LJ:

Quote:Parliament's intention in passing the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 was to criminalise the kind of serious and persistent unwarranted threat which is alleged here, giving a right of civil action as a fallback. In this situation it ought not to be left to hardy individuals to put their savings and homes at risk by suing. The primary responsibility should rest upon local public authorities which possess the means and the statutory powers to bring alleged harassers, however impersonal and powerful, before the local justices.

[DEBANT]

Yep you are right, we have decided to end all correspondance with these companies now. Lets see how many months / years it goes on for and will use the regulatory authorities.

Thanks for the info , will keep you posted on any further developments ,

By the way can this debt collecting agency actually take us to court ? I know you must think us thick but never had this trouble in 48yrs ! so are green to it all, ho, and it is worrying to us.

[Huff&Puff]

Yes they can take you to court, and it's not unknown for them to try it on even when they don't have the right paperwork (or even any). I myself got a CCJ when Byan Carter took me to court without any supporting paperwork (before I discovered CAG ). I had the last laugh on that, but that's another story. As long as you fight the case though, you must win, even if you have to take it to appeal,the legal precedents go all the way to the House of Lords.

[DEBANT]

Well, all letters sent, phone stopped ringing.

We have received two letters stateing Cabot are going back to the original card companies to obtain agreements. They will not have any joy as we have never had these cards .

Hey ho , today we got a letter from cabot saying please see enclosed agreement , Ssssstrange the envelope was EMPTY ?. just their letter in the envelope. What does this mean ? another ploy no doubt.

[ScabHunter]

Well, all letters sent, phone stopped ringing.

We have received two letters stateing Cabot are going back to the original card companies to obtain agreements. They will not have any joy as we have never had these cards .

Hey ho , today we got a letter from cabot saying please see enclosed agreement , Ssssstrange the envelope was EMPTY ?. just their letter in the envelope. What does this mean ? another ploy no doubt.

 

I have seen this ploy before, or at least a similar one.

 

I am aware of a case where Crapbot claimed to have enclosed material which would "solve your dispute". There was absolutely nothing else in the envelope.

 

Looks like more Crapbot lies to be reported to the OFT.

 

SH

[DEBANT]

Thanks SH.

I have looked into providian credit card company , apparently it is an american owned company ? who no longer deal in credit cards ? we have never heard of them , how on earth Cabot can get or pretend to get an agreement that does not exist proves they need to be investigated by the united nations , ho, What do they expect to gain by sending an empty envelope, ?

[ScabHunter]

What do they expect to gain by sending an empty envelope, ?

 

In this case I honestly cannot tell you. Their basic strategy is attrition - wearing people down with endless grinding threats. Maybe they think that you will just say "Oh, well, they must have meant to put it in there!" and start paying them!

 

Doesn't seem very likely in a situation where you know no debt ever existed in the first place.

 

There is, of course, always the possibility that one of the negative-IQ threat monkeys simply made a mistake. Although there are some fiendishly clever minds at Crapbot, there are still plenty of the other sort as well.

 

With Crapbot, we always look for subterfuge at every turn. In this case, it may even genuinely be an "admin error"!

 

SH

[DEBANT]

Mmmmm, there would appear to be a lot of errors at Cabot, I will keep you posted. Many thanks.