old associates card 10yrs+ old - now DCA chasing

[griffin036]

Background, cca'd citicards earlier this year,

typical response with just a generic set of current t+c's,

 

placed account in dispute and citi in default of my CCA s78 request,

 

their final response being

" We have provided all documentation required by law and do not consider there to be a genuine dispute as to the amount of your debt",

 

April letter of " Pending Default"

- this was not an actual Default Notice,

 

August letter "Termination of your agreement"

- hang on I havent had a Default Notice yet!

despite the letter saying"

As you have failed to rectify the breach specified in the default notice we recently sent you, we now require ......."

 

Now a letter from a DCA implying intended litigation unless debt settled without delay.

 

Now question is

do I either send DCA the "bemused" letter or hit them with a CCA request 

( ps a/c is an old associates 10yrs+ old).

Whats would be the most effective action peeps?

[Enron]

Just wonder if you could let us know the DCA?

 

If you have not received a notice of assignment it is likely that the DCA are threatening legal action on behalf of Citi, and the threats are just that to get you to part with money that you are not obliged to.

 

I would be tempted to write to the DCA (do not sign your correspondence) to state that you are awaiting a copy of the executed agreement as listed under s78(1) CCA. There are a lot of problems with earlier Citi executed agreements i.e. incomplete and absence of prescribed terms, hence why they are attempting to mislead customers and operate contrary to their own internal code of conduct in not allowing customers "free access" to documents.

 

In sending recent Terms & Conditions in response to s78(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 Citi are only completing part of what is required to discharge their obligations under the request.

 

Specifically they have sent you the varied Terms & Conditions, but not a copy of the executed agreement - which would be the document you signed on opening the account. Where they are failing is that they are not supplying a copy of that document you signed on applying for the account, executed meaning signed in legal jargon.

 

Now a creditor can exclude your name/address, signature, signature box and signature date from a copy as permitted by the regulations. But aside from that the copy must contain all the information present in the executed agreement, either a direct 1:1 copy or an exact match of that text retyped. IT CANNOT BE AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT DOCUMENT.

 

This position has been confirmed to me by a solicitor and expert witness.

 

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

 

7 Copies of agreements or security instruments where the agreement or security instrument has been varied

 

(1) Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act, every copy of the executed

agreement given to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act other than section 85(1) shall include either--

(a) an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation given in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act relating

to each discrete term of the agreement which has been varied; or

(b) an easily legible statement of the terms of the agreement as varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act.

 

So in sending a copy of recent Terms & Conditions Citi are not discharging their legal obligations under s78(1) CCA, meaning that section 78(6) of the act is still in force which prevents a creditor from enforcing the agreement which would include requests for payment.

 

The Office Of Fair Trading has clarified that creditors are not permitted AT ALL from enforcing the agreement whilst s78(1) CCA is still outstanding. This would include requests for payment through mail, telephone requests for payment, and the reporting of any further data to your credit file.

 

If you have problems of phonecalls, i.e. you believe them to constitute harassment your local trading standards should be able to help in stopping them.

 

Below is the "OFT Debt Collection Guidance" which can come in very handy when dealing with banks and DCAs and is well worth a ready.

 

Essentially from your situation Citi are still to complete the s78(1) CCA request, the account is in dispute because they have not completed it. A creditor or DCA is barred from carrying out collections on a disputed account.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

 

Any troubles, you'll normally find a DCA will back off if you threaten them being reported to the Office Of Fair Trading.

 

The creditor will sometimes take notice, albeit they do tend to operate as a law unto themselves with little regard to rules and regulations.

[griffin036]

Thanks Enron, it is Moorcroft on behalf of Citi.

So basically you are suggesting a tweaked version of the bemused letter including extracts from the above in preferance to another CCA request?

[Enron]

Sounds like you haven't had a notice of assignment so they are being used as a collection agent on their behalf..... from Moorcrofts point of view they are obviously after there pound of flesh (commission) so expect them to be nasty to try and get it.

 

The simple fact is Citi have not complied with your s78(1) CCA request, and shouldn't be contact you through a third party to request payment.