HSBC PPI claim playing hard ball & CCA

[Hotdog77]

Hi There,

 

At present I've been sending letters to HSBC about my credit card of which they aggreed they did't have a signed cca for it. They are playing hard ball at the monment and won't budge. I'm writting on here because i also have been paying ppi on this cc and I need to know when i should start a claim for it?

[alanalana]

Hello hotdog,

 

 

Hi There,

 

At present I've been sending letters to HSBC about my credit card of which they aggreed they did't have a signed cca for it. They are playing hard ball at the monment and won't budge. I'm writting on here because i also have been paying ppi on this cc and I need to know when i should start a claim for it?

 

Some information to get you in the know. I am assuming you have not sent a Subject Access Request.

 

Please have a read through the following.

 

Full SAR for ppi

 

Data Protection Act 1998 - Subject Access Request

 

You should specifically request the following documents:

 

A true copy of your Consumer Credit Agreement with the Terms and Conditions that were applicable at the time you took the credit card.

 

Copies of all statements applicable to the credit card.

 

Copies of all correspondence that apply to you as a data subject ie letters, emails, faxes etc.

 

Copies of all recorded telephone calls or transcripts of the recordings.

 

A copy of the needs and wants/ customer duty of care questionnaire... here is an example.

http://wwwa.mbna.co.uk/insurance/files/CP0608_INSU_MB_LP_S.pdf

 

Copies of any notes made by any staff in their dealings with you.

 

Also have a look in these links for further help.

 

PPI - Some Notes for Claimants..

 

links within this one are loads more links here are a couple that may help..

 

For claims before 2005 and the FSA ruling from which campaign

How to tell if you’ve been mis-sold PPI

 

Quick check: were you mis-sold? - How to tell if you’ve been mis-sold PPI

 

THIS LINK IS IMPORTANT TO YOU ON RECLAIMING IT IS FROM 2001 FROM THE FOS

loan payment protection insurance and a quote from this link...

 

 

When determining whether a policy is suitable, a seller – whether a lender or an agent for the insurer – must obviously take into consideration any information the prospective policyholder volunteers. However, we do not consider the seller’s duty is limited simply to recording what the borrower discloses. It is only by asking questions that the seller can properly determine suitability. These questions cannot cover every aspect of a borrower’s personal position and should not be expected to do so. To paraphrase the ABI Statement, only those matters deemed to be relevant by the insurer should be the subject of questions.

The Subject Access Request will cost £10.00 but it should get you all the data on the credit card.

 

Have a look around for cheaper PPI you can google moneysavingexpert and you should find cheaper PPI insurance on the insurance tab at the top of the site.

 

Once you are happy you are covered cancel the expensive HSBC PPI. They should cancel the PPI and reduce the amount owing on your credit card accordingly.

 

I hope this helps.

 

aa

Edited June 12, 2009 by alanalana
text adjustments

[Hotdog77]

Hey! Thank, I sent the SAR in Feb, and got all i wanted hence why i know they've got no CCA as they confirmed it in a letter to me. From that I've sent them some letters askingto return the account back to Zero, and a rue signed copy of CCA but they just keep sticking to thier guns.

[alanalana]

Hey! Thank, I sent the SAR in Feb, and got all i wanted hence why i know they've got no CCA as they confirmed it in a letter to me. From that I've sent them some letters askingto return the account back to Zero, and a rue signed copy of CCA but they just keep sticking to thier guns.

 

You now have the choice of FOS or Court if you go the FOS route it will take a long time but the FOS are upholding about 90% of complaints. A complaint to the FOS will also cost HSBC a £500 fee but there is no cost to you other than the postage and the occassional phone call.

In the unlikely event the FOS do not uphold your complaint you can then go down the Court route. You cannot however go the Court lose your case and then go to the FOS.

[Hotdog77]

Hi AA,

 

I've taken my eye of this one for a while, but what you wrote, went right over my head.

 

Although i've done a SAR's and got all the info I require can i put 2 requests for ppi refund and balance brought to zeroat the same time? .....Just go in all guns blazing? if not then if im complaining to the FOS then should'nt I have at least made an attempt to try and claim the PPI? even to date the ppi is still on my account, and has made me over my limit.

[Hotdog77]

Hi AA,

 

Any advise???

 

and furthermore, in the original letter i sent them back in feb, I actually asked that they refund all the ppi paid to date on the card.

 

I have had further reponse from them with regards to no signed cca agreement, but nothing on the ppi. I'm sending them a letter today with regards to Civil Procedure Rules. and was wondering if i should send another letter to thier complaints dept about the ppi?

Edited June 24, 2009 by Hotdog77

[Hotdog77]

Just some honest advice please?

 

I've thought hard before sending HSBC another letter and was thinking of returning my credit card back to them (non acknowldgement of debt).

 

Can i do this or will i be shooting myself in the foot in some way or another? if i do so can i still claim ppi paid to date?

[alanalana]

Hi AA,

 

I've taken my eye of this one for a while, but what you wrote, went right over my head.

 

Although i've done a SAR's and got all the info I require can i put 2 requests for ppi refund and balance brought to zeroat the same time? .....Just go in all guns blazing? if not then if im complaining to the FOS then should'nt I have at least made an attempt to try and claim the PPI? even to date the ppi is still on my account, and has made me over my limit.

 

My advice would be to submit a claim to HSBC claiming mis-selling quoting the reasons you are claiming mis-selling. The aim of the game is to get back PPI premiums with the interest that has been added. You can certainly put the claims together I did four on one claim and three on another.

 

Then they have 8 weeks to respond after that you can submit a complaint to the FOS. However if they turn you down flat or make a final offer that you are not happy with then you can go straight to the FOS and you still have the option of Court action in reserve.

 

aa

[alanalana]

Just some honest advice please?

 

I've thought hard before sending HSBC another letter and was thinking of returning my credit card back to them (non acknowldgement of debt).

 

Can i do this or will i be shooting myself in the foot in some way or another? if i do so can i still claim ppi paid to date?

 

I as posted above would concentrate on reclaiming your PPI if you are happy to have any refund paid to offset any remaining balance on the card then that is fine as long as you are happy with that.

 

You must be quite certain on the issue of NO CCA before you proceed to Court it would be unwise IMO to proceed to court on the issue of NO CCA and therefore unenforceable to find out that at the last minute HSBC magically find an original copy of your CCA.

 

If you have not cancelled the PPI you should perhaps consider doing so but make sure you have alternative cover JUST IN CASE there are cheaper versions around online. Moneysavingexpert has a tab on his website for insurances including cheaper option for PPI.

 

aa

[Hotdog77]

Hi AA,

 

Thanks for both posts i will not send the claim for ppi with my letter for Civil Procedure Rules, as i would hate for the coggers to offset by balance with any ppi that they owe me. So will wait for teh outcome of the cpr, then ask for further advivse.

 

Thanks a lot, and i'll tell you how i get on, if don't pass out before

Edited June 28, 2009 by Hotdog77

[Hotdog77]

Hi AA,

 

so to date, HSBC have passed my account to MCS and now dg solicitors who are thretening to get a ccj out on me...even though they still cant locate my agreement. i actually thought this would kick in, but it never did

 

According to sections 221 and 222 of the Companies Act 1985, a public company is required to maintain records for a period of six years (section 222(5)(b)).

As a running credit agreement remains active until the agreement is terminated, I would suggest that all the payment records (and other documents making up the file - including the Agreement/application) would be "live" until the account is paid, or terminated. Thus, the full file should be retained for at least six years after that.

 

This interpretation fits in with Inland Revenue legislation that requires prime documents to be retained for a period of six years, after the end of the relevant accounting period.

i wrote to the fos and they are pretty much in agreement with the banks actions however they have concluded that im due some ppi, so i signed the form back agreeing to the refund of ppi, and i got a reply back yesterday with the following mgs. what do you think?

Thank you for your email and attached settlement form regarding the above.

 

The business has said what I proposed in my letter of 15 June 2010 is not possible, as it is not able to reconstruct the card account as if PPI had not been paid and reduce the debts accordingly.

 

What it has proposed is a refund of PPI premiums paid plus interest at the card rate, plus 8% simple per annum. If you are prepared to accept the offer on this basis please let me know and I will forward your acceptance form to the business.

 

Yours sincerely

 

ppi which was flagged up to the bank in 2009 which I first wrote to Hsbc, of which has been completely overlook by the bank and never even mentioned by them. The Credit card has payment protection insurance which I did not request, disclosure of the agreement will show this as such a policy will be incorporated within the agreement and should be clearly particularised within the agreement as required by section 18 Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

HSBC has been further levying charges which were not set out within the original agreement and therefore are not permitted by the contractIt appears that HSBC ignore these letters and intend to ignore the Law, now further confirmed by their latest actions involving Metroplitain + DG Solicitors

It also puts my account in further dispute , so I shouldn't be chased for a debt ... but I am ... 'cos they're like that .... and they get away with flaunting the DCA . Following HSBC’s previous threats of legal action, they have again failed to supply a true copy of any alleged agreement under CPR 31:16, as I have requested.

[dj1971]

Hotdog,

 

The offer from HSBC via the FOS is standard practice.

 

So I suggest, you could accept their offer and receive a cheque for the PPI paid, plus interest at HSBC rates, plus 8% statutory interest on top from the date of each PPI monthly charge until date of settlement. Do you know how much this should be?

 

If you then want to reduce the balance on your card, wait for the cheque to clear and make payment to your card account.

 

You mention there have been other charges added to your account. These may well be reclaimable as well, but I suggest you submit a separate claim for these to save any confusion and delays.

 

Good luck

 

DJ

[Hotdog77]

Hi there,

 

HSBC agreed through the fos to pay me all the premiums pls 8% and contractual apr intrest at card rate 24%, this was not the offer hsbc sent me, so i refused it a couple of months ago. since then, ive heard nothing from hsbc and even sent them 2 letter of which i have had no responses to. can i complain to the ico? oh and i have email the fos inverstigator to inform then that im getting blanked.

[Hotdog77]

Hi there,

Back in august HSBC made an offer through the fos to refund me the ppi premiums paid, plus 8% simple interest, and contractual apr @ 23.7% on top. the offer can through and was not what they offered, it was infact just the ppi premiums plus 8% simple interest. I refused it as thier offer didnt include the contractual apr. HSBC responded to me during the christmas holidays as they had ignored my previous letters to confirm that they can’t add interest onto the account, as they have to assume that the balance on the card will be cleared at end of 28 days. Im a little bit lost, as they agreed to pay me interest at the card rate.

sent with ‘Without prejudice’ this meaning I cannot use it in a court?

just to quote in the words of

HSBC

from their letter dates 24/12 quoting both the letters i sent out "we have used the average interest

rate of your credit card 21.70% to calculate the sum, the calculation assumes the card balance is cleared every 28 days. i trust i have been able to answer your quiery satisfactorily".

surely this is toilet paper?

 

please help

their offer to refund interest at the card rate, should this be applied to every payment until the date of finalisation? Or are they correct that they have to assume the card is cleared every 28 days? Surely this is rollux?

 

 

This is the 2nd letter they have

.

[Hotdog77]

???anyone??? advice??

[Jim Pike]

Hi hotdog

 

Well tricky little Bs aren't they,

If you cleared balance every 28 days they would make no profit and you wouldn't need PPI.

Jim

[Hotdog77]

mmhhhh yes!!!

 

i do need some help with a spanking letter to send them.

 

Still needing some help!!

[Jim Pike]

Hi Hotdog

 

Where are you at with this now ?

 

Did you reply to their statement that they assume card balance is paid off each month. ?

 

If you wanted to pay off balance each month you would go for an arranged OD or short term loan, or maybe a payday loan, but you didn't you went for a credit card with a trusted mainstream bank with a large credit limit and at a very high interest rate.

You are under no obligation to clear the balance each month as the card issuer asks that you pay at least 3% minimum payment each month (can vary with card companies), meaning that they do not want the balance cleared (money in their pocket)

 

Jim

[Hotdog77]

hi Jim.

i did go back with something, gave them will yesterday to reply back, but have heard nothing again. im just about to post another poison pen letter - LBA and have given them till 4th march or im taking it to the small claims court. i dont see why they would make offer to the fos but not stand by it.

 

ive also have cdru wite to me, confimring if i dont get back to them by the 27th, they will doa door step visit. funny really, as ive sent them many emails and they continue to make no reference to the generous offer that ive made them, but want to call me unreasonable! huh!

[Jim Pike]

Hi Hotdog

 

I hope you pointed out that their assumption that the card balance is cleared is based upon pure fiction, as if they do their research correctly they will see that you have maintained a healthy balance on the card, therefore earning them interest on the balance. And furthermore at no time during the life of the card have they told you they want the balance clearing at the end of each month, of course if they had you would have complied, but the usefulness of said card would have been diminished almost to being useless, and if all card holders were treated thus, they would not have a credit card section to their bank!

 

CDRU yes have dealt with them, Met first then DG then CDRU and back to DG for court action, what can I say not much to choose between them, all Tossers

 

Good Luck

Jim

[Hotdog77]

Hi Jim,

How are you?

I basically used what you pointed out, although in a previous letter I also stated the same. I’ve emailed the FOS adjudicator who has been dealing with this and he’s completely ignored me. So ill see, they have till 4th March, then I’m going small claims court. They can’t promise me this refund all embellished with sparkles, then not cough up. If their off had additional terms regarding the apr that they want to add, it should have been stated when putting that offer to the FOS.

So how did yours end? Did they take you to court in the end?

[Jim Pike]

Hi Hotdog

 

Mine is still hanging, no result yet on PPI, fair bit behind you at present.

litigation started by DG not been to court yet though.

 

When I say no result on PPI, they haven't said p*ss off yet, maybe that's a good sign, cos egg said p*ss off by return of letter.

 

I would have to give it some serious thought starting action against them in court, could prove costly and also courts might just over rule and side with HSBC, meaning you lose. I'm not experienced with this but would be worried doing it. Maybe someone more enlightened will come along and advise you with this. I hope it doesn't get to that stage for you.

 

I will keep in touch and see how you progress with this.

Remember you must be like a dog with a bone, and keep at them.

 

Jim