Barclaycard from pre 1985

[checkthatcredit]

I have a very old Barclaycard and have s77'd them. I have received a response stating that as my agreement is from before 19th May 1985 under s9 of The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 they only have to provide a copy of the current agreement and as the account is in default I should refer to the debt collection agency and they claim this satisfies s77.

Any comments or advice in handling pre-1985 agreements would be helpful

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello CTC!

 

It should be s78(1) if it was a Credit Card, so maybe wise to double check what you ask for.

 

s77(1) is for things like Loans.

 

I would send them a SAR and the £10 fee, and see what that turns up. Gather as much information as you can before going back at them.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[checkthatcredit]

Hello CTC!

 

It should be s78(1) if it was a Credit Card, so maybe wise to double check what you ask for.

 

s77(1) is for things like Loans.

 

I would send them a SAR and the £10 fee, and see what that turns up. Gather as much information as you can before going back at them.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

Sorry it was a 77/78 request that I sent and they are saying that they have complied by saying that under s9 they do not have to provide an agreement if it has been lost or otherwise destroyed. I was wondering what the differences were when disputing agreements from before 1985 to the more recent agreements that everyone is familiar with.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello CTC!

 

s77/78 is fine, just checking they can't say you sent the wrong request...often wise to be vague and quote s77-79 to make sure you cover the lot in case the Agreement was not what you thought it was.

 

Pre-1985 Agreements are far less common on CAG, so it's a bit of a gray area.

 

Not necessarily a bad thing, as the issues affect the banks as much as they affect the Consumer.

 

The following Thread is worth checking, as there's someone in the same boat:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/178701-barclaycard-cabot-pre-1974-a.html#post1929101

 

I don't know where to start, as it's quite complex. On the one hand, they will say they can duck behind the pre-1985 issue and don't need to send you an Agreement.

 

On the other, then how can they prove there was an Agreement? Was it unregulated? If so, how do they get around s59 of The Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I believe that they could not avoid Regulation, so where is the evidence that the Agreement became Regulated? Likewise, if it was Regulated, where is the Agreement, what were the Terms etc.

 

It's a minefield for them as well as Consumers.

 

They can't avoid Regulation, so next step is to stay quiet and see what else they do...watch if they issue any s87(1) Default Notices...obviously that will suggest they regard it as Regulated. If they try to claim it is not Regulated, then why not.

 

I think the best tactic is to say you want to see the Agreement, and that is that. They will moan but what can they do?

 

Where are the Statements to show where the current total came from? Barclays seem reluctant to produce much from before +6 Years ago, because they use that as an excuse to avoid having to produce things!

 

Most likely is they won't want to produce anything for yours from beyond +6 Years, so that shoots them in the foot on the numbers. Where, exactly, has the balance come from.

 

I regret this is more questions than answers...but may help you to get started.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[checkthatcredit]

I sent the request as I have started getting visiting cards from their henchmen after a long period of silence - I had been devoting my time to the more recent and more pressing creditors but I need to put them and the door-knockers to sleep in the most effective way. My problem is that whilst I understand post 1985 to some degree and have all the templates for those agreements that have appeared I have no knowledge of the early stuff and can't find sample letters to use.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello CTC!

 

I would fall back on the main strategy of saying you want to see a signed Agreement. No matter what they say they can get away with, without that, they are not in a strong position.

 

Remember that the Act came out in 1974, so it's not as if they didn't have warning of what they needed to be compliant with. All the Applications from even 1985 and before, seem to have failed to mention The Consumer Credit Act 1974, so Barclays knows it's on pretty shaky ground even if they can find a basic Application with a Signature...if not Regulated then, they needed to ensure Regulation at some stage, so where is that later Agreement that brought an unregulated Agreement into line?

 

There are no Template Letters for that time, so my advice is to stick to the line that you want to see a signed Regulated Agreement. Let them baffle you with why you should not need one, because they will struggle.

 

The most likely is they will just turn on the threats, phone calls, postcards and silly letters. Start logging all of that, and turn it back on them if/when the time comes.

 

Mercers are in-house, as are Calder Financial (just another name for Mercers). They use external pond life to knock on doors, so be ready to send any of them their own s78(1) Request the second they appear on the scene, and add the no visitors, no harassment, no trespass, where's my Data Protection Act 1998 consent etc comments.

 

Bone up on the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines, and also The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, and be on standby to fire sparks at anyone that pops up on the scope tasked with bothering you.

 

Barclays tend to use people like ScotCall, Power 2 Contact (Power 2 Annoy more like), Credit Solutions Limited, etc etc, they are all external DCAs who do the snarling and gnashing of rotten teeth so Barclays does not have to.

 

They can and will be annoying, so get ready to see each one off, as they appear.

 

But, make sure you file all letters along with the envelopes they came in, log all calls, and send everything Special Delivery to prove what you sent, to whom and when.

 

Copy all key letters to the main people at Barclays, such as the CEO, Company Secretary etc, so they cannot deny they know all about the harassment etc.

 

I can't promise how it'll pan out, but you will have an easier ride if you stay firm and clinical, and see off every approach using the Template Letters that are on CAG for things like harassment and no visitors.

 

Cheers,

BRW