No Sense from Welcome Finance

[Us versus Debt]

I am having problems with a HP car finance with Welcome

 

Finance taken out on nov 06, direct debits paid each month of £277 with no problems. I needed to reduce payments due to temporary income decrease last march 09. Welcome accepted new amount of £100 but said if I wanted to keep paying this amount as a new set amount then I would have to sign new agreement.

 

I asked for a statement to work out what had been paid to date which I never got.

Was advised to send a SAR on here which I did.

Got back very little, copies of ID used to get the finance, a Statement of demands, copy of agreement and a statement showing payments.

No schedule or policy document for the GAP was provided.

 

The statement shows loads of adhoc and capitalisation fees which after a lengthy call with Welcome have now been removed but still no details have been sent as to what they were for.

Account transferred to Welcome Assets wich at least speak to me and answer questions.

 

A letter was received demanding to know where the car is!!!!!!!

it is a request under section 80 of the cca 1974.

I do not know why this letter was sent as Welcome have told me today that the account has not defaulted.

 

The lady also said that personally she does not think it would be a good idea to accept the rewrite offered as it doubles the amount we would then owe over 10 yrs when we've already paid 2/3rds already and have less than 2 yrs if paid £277.

 

I still can't get anything to balamce and the amount on the agreement just does not calculate.

 

HELP

[prudent]

Not that clued in on this... so pls take my advice with a pinch of salt, as it is purely based on personal experience. But i wouldn't think signing a new agreement with these sharks to be a good idea, as it might be best to get shot of them sooner than later... their buz.. tactics is to drive you deeper and deeper into debt with them...

Also it could be worth checking ur current agreemement to make sure all is well with it.

 

With regards to them not complying fully with SAR request, you can either report it to the info commisioner (takes some month due to back log) or take it to court. It might also buy you some time in the mean time to sort your finance out.

[42man]

Send them a LETTER BEFORE ACTION (recorded delivery)...stating that they have not complied fully with your subject access request.....if they don't send you the rest of the details, then you should start a court claim where you will be awarded compensation at the discretion of the court.....also have you had PPI added ?.....

 

Have a read of these 2 threads - the first one gives an example of a LETTER BEFORE ACTION http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/178660-blackheath-loans.html

 

This gives an example of how to fill out the court forms - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/49571-havinastella-lloyds-tsb-3.html

[Us versus Debt]

removed for now

Edited June 7, 2009 by Us versus Debt

[Darwin]

I have adhock fees , brsuspense transfer , fee assessment , fee dispursement , capitalisation , refer to drawer and unpaid DD on mine.

 

no idea what it all means and they couldnt tell me either.

[Us versus Debt]

this is the letter I sent to them:

 

LETTER OF COMPLAINT

 

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

A Data Protection Act Subject Access Request (SAR) dated xxxxx was sent to you with regard to the above account together with £10 administrative fee. To date, the documents we have received in response to our request are as follows:

 

Balance of account, Terms & Conditions, An Agreement signed and dated by Mr x

Photocopies of ID provided by ourselves, A completed direct debit mandate

A loan agreement front sheet, A Vehicle Summary Details sheet, A Statement of Price.

 

 

However there appear to be documents missing and, by sending this letter, we are requesting that these documents be provided immediately in accordance with our original SAR .

The items we require include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:

1) A true copy of the Hire Purchase Agreement for the car, signed and dated by both the borrowers (joint finance) and on behalf of the creditor

2) A true copy of the Credit Agreement for the Shortfall Extra/Guaranteed Asset Protection (GAP) Insurance, signed and dated by both the borrowers (joint finance) and on behalf of the creditor

3) The Schedule of Insurance and the Policy Document for the Shortfall Extra\GAP Insurance

4) Details of telephone conversations and logged notes.

5) All letters of correspondence (none were included with documents sent)

6) Documents listed on the WFS – Loan Agreement Front Sheet that have been ticked as being available but have not been provided as follows; proposal/application form, dealer warranty, payout check-list, comments sheet, quote, FSA document sheet and insurance documents.

7) Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organization or third party which contains our personal or financial, or which pertains to us, including correspondence to the underwriter of any insurance policies and details of the relevant Insurance Premium Tax (IPT) payable on any single premium policies. Please ensure this includes how much tax was payable, who payment was made to and the date of this payment

 

 

By way of this letter of complaint, we also request the following:

1)A written explanation with regard to each and every adhoc and capitalisation fee, specifically the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated and what the charge covers. We are aware that some of these have been removed following a conversation with the xxx office. However, a explanation is required nevertheless

9) An explanation of the Option Fee and the Acceptance Fee and details as to how they have been calculated

10) An explanation as to why the Vehicle Summary Details document incorrectly states that the car is xxx coloured and not xxx

11) An rexplanation as to why a Vehicle Registration Document (V5 Log Book) not been provided to date together with your assurance that it will now be provided within a reasonable period of time

12) A definition and explanation of the term “DIP” as shown on the WFS – Loan Agreement Front Sheet

13) Details of any commissions paid to any party in regards to our account

14) An explanation as to why a letter titled “ Request under Section 80 of the consumer credit act 1974” requesting details as to the car location and advising of 7 days to comply with the request was sent. We understand this is a legitimate request but we fail to understand why it was sent when payments were being made and there was no default

15) An explanation as to why the figures on the copy of the unsigned agreement do not appear balance. It states:

 

 

amount of credit for goods 6900.00

amount of credit for insurances 295.00

total amount of credit 7195.00

total amount payable for the goods 12870.88

total amount payable for the insurances 530.99

total amount payable 13401.76

Total Months 48

APR 40.4%

Monthly Payment 277.12

 

When calculated, 48 X £277.12 = 13301.76, difference of £100

 

 

When using an APR loan calculator (from the FSA website) the calculations are:

Loan amount = 7,195.00

Years = 4

APR% = 40.4

Payments per year = 12,

Amount per repayment £304.33

Total paid over the life of the loan £14,607.84

Total interest paid during loan £7,412.84

 

 

We understand that you have eight weeks to reasonably respond to the above queries. However, the documents outstanding from the Data Protection Act Subject Access Request dated xx/xx/xx are now overdue.

 

 

In view of the difficulty in obtaining a response to queries raised in the past together with our serious concerns over the validity of the original agreement and the calculations used therein, we do not feel that it is appropriate to continue making payments until these matters have resolved to our mutual satisfaction or a decision has been made by the Financial Services Ombudsman.

 

 

Please send written confirmation upon receipt this letter of complaint.

 

 

Yours Sincerely

Edited June 19, 2009 by Us versus Debt

[bobbyh99]

can you post up a copy of the agreement (minus personal stuff)?

 

How much was the Option Fee/Acceptance fee?

 

BobbyH

[Us versus Debt]

the option fee is £100

the acceptance fee is £195 but on the statement of price it states £11.06 X 48 months which is more than £195?

[Us versus Debt]

In their letter replying to my letter of complaint they say:

 

" in regards to the commission paid to the third party for brokering the deal through Welcome Finance, I can confirm that unfortunately we do not retain this data and we are under no obligation to provide it should customers have a query in regards to this."

 

and also on the calculations:

 

"I have briefly spoken to a member of the legal team and he has advised that because we do not know what figures you have keyed in what section of the calculator we are unable to advise why they do not match up with ours. He also advised there is a FAS website, obviously different to the FSA, which gives different and random numbers. Could you have in error used this site instead? (CHEEKY BLIGHTERS) I have calculayed the figures using the caculator the OFT use and the figures have come back accurate.

 

 

Does anyone know how to calcualte these as I thought I couldn't go wrong with the FSA (def FSA not FAS whatever that is!!!).No idea what the OFT one is.

 

I have no problems paying them as I've been lucky with a nice car. However we are paying lower amounts and are being asked to sign a new agreement if we want to keep paying a lower amount and I want it to be correct. I have to admit though will try to go back to full amount as do not want a new agreement which neearly doubles the current remaining balance.

Edited June 19, 2009 by Us versus Debt

[Us versus Debt]

duplicate post

[bobbyh99]

Try this calculator.

It also calculates the compounded APR from the nominal

 

Loan & APR Calculator

 

If you put 40.4 in the nominal rate box and compound monthly you get 48.79%.

 

Then in the top if you put £7195, 48.79% and 4 years the monthly amount is the same as the FSA one £304.34.

 

However, if you put 40.4% in the top section the monthly amount comes out at £277.87, which is the WF amount.

 

BobbyH

[Us versus Debt]

Ok, an update. well after a few letters saying our legal team looking into how the apr was calculated things have been pretty quiet from welcome. We had a few calls, one from a real idiot and the other from a girl who sounded a bit startled when we told her fos were dealing with itnow. We called FOS for the ref number and phoned welcome to give it to her. FOS have told us that Welcome should not be contacting us direct.

 

Today we have received a letter. I've typed it word for word. Blue ink are my comments Its laughable really. They really don't seem to be able to answer a single question and claim that they all ready have done so!!! Shame they haven't sent it to me. It does make you question a company who do not appear to be able to answer simple questions requesting information they should know. The letter I sent them is copied in post 6. and I've waited months for no answer. Anyway, I'm sending it to the FOS to go with all the other stuff already sent. I really don't see there is much point batting the ball back as they clearly are morons. Let FOS deal with them...

 

The letter received

 

Thank you for your letter dated June 09. Your questions have been noted, however we feel that all your queries have been fully addressed. where? when?

 

A statement of a/c is enclosed in which you will see all your repayments listed & charges applied. Yes thanks, we have about 10 of these already as you send one each time we send you a letter that you don't seem to want to deal with. We also include a copy of the charges poliy that was applicable at the time you commenced your agreement and would remind you that this was provided to you at the point of sale. this is dated dec 06 which was many months after taking out the finance, the BIG date on it gives it away, idiots

 

We are under no obligation to provide commissions paid to third party details to you in respect of this transaction and that a full copy of the agreement covering finance, insurances and acceptance fee were also provided to you at the point of sale.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Us versus Debt

[Us versus Debt]

this came from doncaster, and was very short

[postggj]

well well

a blast from the past

 

welcome back us versus debt

 

the fos have a fraud case against welcome at the moment

 

let them get there teeth into it

 

read that letter agaiN

 

WE ARE UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO PROVIDE COMMISSIONS PAID TO THIRD PARTY

 

THEY HAVE ADDMITTED IT NOW

YOU CAN APPLY TO THE COURT FOR AN ENFORCEMENT ORDER NOW

 

YOU HAVE IT IN BLACK AND WHITE

[Us versus Debt]

hi post, yes I've been keeping up with your busy life batting investors, shame on you

I hide a lot in the background absorbing the info.

That thread is quite amazing. Great help you've been giving out here.

How is Andie doing? all quiet there.

[postggj]

Ill Send Andie A Pm

 

 

Its A Question Of Counting Down The Weeks Now Not Months With Welcome/cattles

 

Ill Be There When The Directors Of Cattles Go To Jail

 

Remember My Chat With The Seriouse Fraud Squad And Fos Six Months Ago

 

Seems They Are Now Talking To Each Other

 

The Fos Would Not Go Public With Out A Cast Iron Case

[Us versus Debt]

And another discovery we now have confirmed.

The car was 'X' colour when we chose it, it was approx 2 yrs old.

From the paperwork we received from the SAR it stated it was 'Y' colour.

 

I have to admit my partner and I thought it was a typing error and we have never had a log book for it.

 

Now it turns out it was originally 'Y' colour and had a respray! Nothing wrong with that but after speaking to many reputable car dealerships all have said it is very unusual for a car to be resprayed. The car was from CarCraft, Ucan, who are now owned by webuyanycar.com (all part of the same company, I found this out by ringing Ucan and Carcraft).

 

Welcome say that we should have checked paperwork, however on all paperwork stated colour 'X' and no details as to why a respray might of occured were stated. The finance agreement says colour 'X', DVLA info says 'Y'.

[postggj]

have you done a hpi check to see if it has a cat c on it

 

i believe thats an insurance right off put back on the road

[Us versus Debt]

hadn't thought of that! Will do so now.

[Us versus Debt]

just about to do it, but every website offering the check states it as colour 'Y'!!!!! Its not even close to being correct.

[Us versus Debt]

ooo what did I get in the post.

Was it a letter answering questions put to Welcome?

 

Was it heck....

It seems Lewis Group are now on my case.

 

Do Welcome not understanding the word DISPUTE?

They haven't replied to the enquiry sent by FOS who have pratically given up.

[Us versus Debt]

now to send lewis group a "bog off letter" and a "what on earth are you playing at" one to welcome.

why is it so bloody difficult.

if they sorted it out then I will start paying it again, even to catch up. morons