2 x DCA's + 1 Bank - who owns ancient debt?

[DebtMagnet]

Hi all,

 

I have read tons on here and on the web but am still unsure about what to do about this situation.

 

My Mum has an ancient debt that relates to an old overdraft with Nat West that dates back over 14 years. The overdraft was defaulted on, and they either sold the debt on or appointed a DCA (namely Moorcroft!) to collect for them. Now as this has been going on for over 14 years and she has only had contact with Moorcroft, I presume Nat West sold the debt to them at the time?

 

Anyway she has been paying small amounts regularly to Moorcroft every month for the past 14 years or so, but there is still an outstanding balance of over £2k. Unfortunately she hasn't kept any records and so I can't trace what has been paid, and towards what original balance. She has had many calls to both her door and on the phone over the 14 years threatening all sorts and has had almost monthly pressure to settle in full or up her monthly payments. She has bottled this up for 14 years and has lived in constant fear that they would carry out their threats to come and take her possessions and now after 14 years she has told me about it and I was shocked and alarmed to find out how long she had been living in fear of these **** and decided to try and help her sort the mess out.

 

Anyway I set to work reading up on the best way to start and researching on here to find out what I can do, but while doing that and to confuse things more, it appears that the debt has now been sold on again to another DCA and overnight they have more than doubled the debt to over £4k, and now want a single payment to settle wih no option to continue paying monthly?! Moorcroft didn't advise of any change but simply just stopped calling or sending letters?!!

 

Without telling me (and while I was still researching the facts) my Mum then went to see the CAB who wrote a letter to Nat West asking for CCA and got a standard reply saying they didn't have to provide anything as it was an overdraft etc. (I had already researched this on here so knew it was not really worth trying). However the thing that confused me is that Nat West have also given her a balance outstanding on the account and this is the same amount this new DCA are asking for (Over twice what she owed Moorcroft).

 

Now as far as I can tell, Nat West haven't contacted my Mum regarding this matter for over 14 years and the only communication regarding the original debt has been with Moorcroft. It seems odd that they are now getting involved as I would have expected them to have long since forgotten about this debt??

 

So anyway after weeks of reading lots of info I was thinking of writing to all 3 and asking for both the deed of assignment and a full breakdown of every payment and charge on the account since day 1. Is this something that they would have to provide even though it dates back to over 14 years ago, or would another course of action be better? And if this is ok then is it a SAR I need to use or some other thing?

 

I am also going to include to the new DCA the fact that she disputes the debt (as it has more than doubled) and that she does not recognise any debt with them and for them to prove they own the debt. Is this ok in your opinion? Should I also do the same to Nat West as I also dispute the figure they have too?

 

There is tons of info on here but obviously it's hard to fit any 1 case in to this particular case so thought I'd post it and hope for some advice. (If this is in the wrong place then please move it Mods)

 

Any help will be very greatly appreciated

 

Thanks in advance,

DM

Edited March 21, 2009 by DebtMagnet
spelling

[clemma]

Send the SAR to Natwest (send a £10 postal order):

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

It's not the Deed of Assignment that you need to see, it is a Notice of Assignment. You should receive this as part of the SAR. As for the new DCA - you could send them the prove it letter - make them do the work to show they are legally entitled to collect this debt.

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Reference no: 00000000000

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully,

[DebtMagnet]

That's brilliant clemma, thanks for that. I really appreciate the letters too as there are many different versions floating around so never quite sure which to use.

 

The last bit of the SAR letter makes the point about identity, but as Nat West have never written to my Mum at her current address (they replied direct to the CAB) should I just leave that bit out or maybe say that they can confirm it with their chosen DCA or whatever?

 

Thanks again,

DM

[postggj]

14 Years

 

Ime Gob Smacked

 

Overdrafts Are Not My Thing But It Looks Like The Dca Have Been Charging Interest

 

Can They Do That With An Overdraft,

That Needs To Be Confirmed But Unsure

 

May I Ask The Original Ammount On The Overdraft

[DebtMagnet]

I'm in work at the mo so can't check but I believe it was around £9k.

 

I have done a very rough calculation based on the limited paperwork she has kept and it looks like she wouldn't have paid it off yet so that bit is not a shock.

 

I told her yesterday that it would cost £10 for the SAR and she didn't seem to impressed as she doesn't believe we can do anything to help her anyway. Are the bank obliged to give a refund if they can't produce what we request?

 

Thanks again,

DM

[DebtMagnet]

Hi again,

 

I've sent off the SAR and we'll see what they come back with. While I wait for that I have also sent the letter to the new DCA but have added a formal complaint as well due to a very threatening phone call my Mum recieved yesterday. Again we'll see what they say.

 

Do the banks (or whover) have to keep information relating to accounts that have been closed for 14 years? I would be very surprised if they are in a position to provide anything, but if they don't then where do I stand? Likewise if they do produce something, it's way out of time to be claiming any charges back so I guess my angle would be to justify the sudden doubling of the debt?

 

Thanks again,

DM

[clemma]

Do the banks (or whover) have to keep information relating to accounts that have been closed for 14 years?

 

Unlikely, as they can destroy records after an account has been closed for 6 years.

[babybear39]

Report all of them to trading standards and the OFT. Does your mum have a recording or transcript of the call from the DCA?

[DebtMagnet]

Unlikely, as they can destroy records after an account has been closed for 6 years.

 

 

Well that is my fear. As I said though, if they do (as I expect) say they can't find anything then I guess I'll need to see what the next step would be, but that's getting a bit ahead right now.

 

I have checked online and the SAR has been signed for so I'll see what they send and let you know.

 

Thanks as always,

DM

[DebtMagnet]

Report all of them to trading standards and the OFT. Does your mum have a recording or transcript of the call from the DCA?

 

I have already fired off letters to them all and so I'll see what they all come back with and then if applicable I'll certainly report them to anyone who'll listen.

 

As for any calls, I'm afraid not. She's not exactly good at playing the game and catching these people out.......but with my constant nagging I'm hoping she'll get better;)

 

Many thanks,

DM